Hello from NW Minnesota

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TeeZee

Newbie
Original poster
May 22, 2024
7
7
First time posting, but I've enjoyed reading throughout the site and learning as I go. Someone mentioned using fresh, active sauerkraut juice as a meat fermentation starter and I'm interested. The juice from naturally fermented sauerkraut has a great many applications. I'm now using it mostly to ferment (preserve) homemade mayonnaise to last three months under refrigeration and to inoculate food scraps for our chickens (it keeps the food from spoiling and helps the birds stay healthy too).

How would I go about using sauerkraut juice as a fermentation starter in summer sausage, for example? Is there a recommended amount of juice per lb. of meat? Just wondering how this works--I'd love to try it.
 
Hello back and thanks for your interest! I'm thinking that Great Grandpa (I'm German on both sides) didn't run to the store every time he wanted to make fermented sausage; he would have used what he had, and a good batch of sauerkraut has a particularly robust culture.

I also keep a mesophilic buttermilk culture (got mine from bacillusbulgaricus.com) and a sourdough starter. The buttermilk is great for soaking tough meats and offal; the sourdough is good for bread, of course, but also useful for fermenting any kind of grain and even making kvass (a type of Eastern European drink).

Once you have learned the ways and means of fermentation, a door opens to so many traditional foods. I don't see why this shouldn't be true of meats as well. Surely someone has tried this.
 
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Hello again and thanks for all the kind greetings.

A forum member has suggested adding 3 T. raw (active cultures) sauerkraut juice per lb. ground meat and notes that an extended fermentation period is required. I'm planning to try this with a simple summer sausage recipe (do I use cure #2?) stuffed into an unbleached muslin sack. If all goes well, the sausage will be smoked then cooked to temperature. [Give me a couple weeks--if I survive I promise to report back, even if it's from the hospital.]
 
The krout juice will give you lactic acid....Note: you need very good quality sourkrout for this, not a jar store bought...Been years since I did this. Yes cure 2. You can use cure 1 with some some but it will be semi dry style SS and not a long shelf stable product.... start small with 1-2 lbs

You will also need a fermentable sugar...

But
Most of all be safe with the process as the krout juice will not give you any bio protective cover
 
Hello again and thanks for all the kind greetings.

A forum member has suggested adding 3 T. raw (active cultures) sauerkraut juice per lb. ground meat and notes that an extended fermentation period is required. I'm planning to try this with a simple summer sausage recipe (do I use cure #2?) stuffed into an unbleached muslin sack. If all goes well, the sausage will be smoked then cooked to temperature. [Give me a couple weeks--if I survive I promise to report back, even if it's from the hospital.]
One of the main strains in sauerkraut is lactobacillus plantarum. Apparently there are numerous strains that rise and fall during a sauerkraut natural ferment, and L plantarum is dominant after 2 weeks or so. However, there may be 20 different cultures alive in there.

L plantarum is one of the main cultures used in meat fermentation. Another one found in both is Pediococcus pentosaceus.

Because sauerkraut is a wild ferment with numerous strains, using juice to ferment meat introduces a lot of variables. In the past, meat wild ferments were the standard, and professionals used backslopping once they had a good culture going in their shop. And while using sauerkraut juice may give a more assured start for LAB cultures, you may also be adding some wild bad stuff.

Due to the high cost of meat, the relatively low cost of professional cultures from Chr Hansen and low amount used, and the ease of availability now of freeze dried cultures, I think it is worth just using them. I don't want to have to toss a bunch of meat.

On the other hand, Lebanon baloney is still made with wild ferment often. And I just reread Rytek Kutas book through, and he is pretty much 100% wild ferment in that book, being written before easy Chr Hansen culture availability. He does do artificial chemical acidification using Fermento, which does lower pH rapidly thus providing some initial pH protection. But anyways, it really was the standard, so we don't have to treat it like craziness ;)

However, it would be an interesting experiment, and in absence of acess to Chr Hansen cultures, sk juice might be the best option! If you experiment, I recommend using sk juice that is at least 2 weeks old so L plantarum has proliferated.

I would love to hear results!! I have a thread at wedlinydomowe.pl with comments on using yugurt cultures as starter, it was for folks in Asia without access to meat cultures. I like the sk juice option better!
 
Yes, it does feel a bit like flying without a net. (Sorry about the black humor.) I intend to be scrupulous and do small 1 lb. batches. I make my own cold ferment kraut and will be working from a proven recipe for the sausage; I need to figure out fermentation times and temps though. There is a recipe for krautwurst online that includes sauerkraut. Might be a good model to start; even the spices have a 'summer sausage' feel to them.

I'll be careful, you can be sure of that.
 
Greetings from Crookston (for the summer). I migrate to Florida for the winter.
No help on the fermented sausage. I primarily make fresh only. Cure #1 only for smoke.
 
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One of the main strains in sauerkraut is lactobacillus plantarum. Apparently there are numerous strains that rise and fall during a sauerkraut natural ferment, and L plantarum is dominant after 2 weeks or so. However, there may be 20 different cultures alive in there.

L plantarum is one of the main cultures used in meat fermentation. Another one found in both is Pediococcus pentosaceus.

Because sauerkraut is a wild ferment with numerous strains, using juice to ferment meat introduces a lot of variables. In the past, meat wild ferments were the standard, and professionals used backslopping once they had a good culture going in their shop. And while using sauerkraut juice may give a more assured start for LAB cultures, you may also be adding some wild bad stuff.

Due to the high cost of meat, the relatively low cost of professional cultures from Chr Hansen and low amount used, and the ease of availability now of freeze dried cultures, I think it is worth just using them. I don't want to have to toss a bunch of meat.

On the other hand, Lebanon baloney is still made with wild ferment often. And I just reread Rytek Kutas book through, and he is pretty much 100% wild ferment in that book, being written before easy Chr Hansen culture availability. He does do artificial chemical acidification using Fermento, which does lower pH rapidly thus providing some initial pH protection. But anyways, it really was the standard, so we don't have to treat it like craziness ;)

However, it would be an interesting experiment, and in absence of acess to Chr Hansen cultures, sk juice might be the best option! If you experiment, I recommend using sk juice that is at least 2 weeks old so L plantarum has proliferated.

I would love to hear results!! I have a thread at wedlinydomowe.pl with comments on using yugurt cultures as starter, it was for folks in Asia without access to meat cultures. I like the sk juice option better!
Oh yes to all of the above! Wish I could find again a wonderful research paper posted online (once upon a time, can't seem to find it now) that discussed the rise and fall of bacterial strains (and yeasts) in sauerkraut--it's a mystery on so many levels. Hope this works--golly, if it does, how do I save the culture for future use? Crazy.
Greetings from Crookston (for the summer). I migrate to Florida for the winter.
No help on the fermented sausage. I primarily make fresh only. Cure #1 only for smoke.
Hello, Crookston. You're just down the road apiece. ;-)
 
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I have used good yogurt also. again a longer process.
I should add that the Italians ferment sausage (e.g., cotechino) with their good homemade red wine; the bottled stuff at a liquor store won't do. Quite a few options here. Worthwhile to study their technique.
 
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