Can I salvage the pork loin

Discussion in 'Roll Call' started by tskar, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. tskar

    tskar Newbie

    I'm making Canadian bacon and put a pork in a brine to marinate for three days and accidently left it sitting on the counter overnight, about ten hours before I refrigerated it. Do you think I can salvage the meat if I smoke it to 155 degrees. I hate to have to throw an entire pork loin in the trash. I would appreciate any advice.
     
  2. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    How much cure did you have in the brine?

    Did you inject the brine in the loin too?

    Three days seems awful short for a loin.

    Most go 9-14 days.

    Al
     
  3. sqwib

    sqwib Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Ditto on what Al said
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  4. tskar

    tskar Newbie

    This was a recipe for Canadian bacon, I have never tried before, found it one the web before discovering this site.I used 12 tablespoons kosher salt​, 2tablespoons of sodium nitrite,1 cup of sugar, 1 head of garlic (minced) and 4 bay leaves in one gallon of water. brought everything to a boil and simmered for 5 minuets, cooled in the refrigerator, removed and added pork loin, than forgot to put back in the refrigerator.
     
  5. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I would say if you did that after a few days of curing, you'd be OK.

    However since this actually happened before it was even started curing, it's no different than just leaving raw meat on the counter over night. (10 hours)

    Bear
     
  6. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I'd probably pitch it. Even though there was cure in the brine there wasn't much time for it to soak into the meat.

    I'd recommend that you look into Pop's Brine here. Makes making bacon and other cured meats pretty simple.
     
  7. tskar

    tskar Newbie

     Thanks for the advice everyone, guess I'm going to have to pitch it. Thought maybe it would be safe being submerged in a brine. I will  be sure to pay closer attention in the future.
     
  8. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    Before you pitch it, see what JJ has to say.

    I PM'd him & he should respond as soon as he comes on.

    Al
     
  9. smokin monkey

    smokin monkey Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Before you pitch it, it's worth cutting in half to see if it has cured to the middle in the three days that you cured it. This will tell you if your estimation of three days is correct.
     
  10. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Guys the whole issue is the loin sat on the counter right after putting it into the brine for 10 hours at temps above 40 degrees. This has nothing to do with the short three day curing process.

    I'd pitch it.
     
  11. smokin monkey

    smokin monkey Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I
    I agree pitch it, but check to see if It did actually cure in three days.
     
  12. sqwib

    sqwib Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    As a responsible member on SMF, I have to say,

    "When in doubt throw it out"

    BUT, BUT...

    OK I'll say what most folks are thinking but wont say..., THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO FOR ME, Not suggesting this for you, This is what I-ME would do.

    I (means me not you) would cook it in the oven and try it!!!
     
  13. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Exactly!!

    Would be a lot different if it was in cure in the fridge for 3 days or longer, and then left on the counter at room temp for 10 hours.

    Like I said above, This is Not much different than bringing meat home from the store & leaving it on the counter for 10 hours before putting it in the fridge.

    This has nothing to do with 3 days being too short. This is beside the fact that 3 days is too short for Pork Loin, unless it's only about about 1/2" Thick.

    Bear
     
  14. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    First concern is...2Tbs Sodium Nitrite? If you are talking PURE then that is HIGHLY toxic. 2Tbs Cure #1 would be fine. Second, NEVER BOIL CURE! The rest ok, then cool to 40°F add Cure and meat and proceed. Three days will only penetrate about 1 to 1.5" from all sides so the center is likely uncured. Last. I would not be concerned about sitting out 10 hours in the Brine. That amount of salt, sugar and cure is inhospitable to bacteria and I would expect little if any growth, at a 70° room temp, in that short a time. If left out a couple days? Yes, spoilage would be an issue. Toxin is of no issue, in a Gallon of Brine, as any tiny amount possibly produced in 10 hours would be so dilute as to be inconsequential. Additionally we all rinse well after brining and this further removes anything that may have grown. I would remake the Brine Properly, give the pork a thorough wash, get all in the Refer and proceed based on 1 day per 1/2" thickness plus 2 days...5" thick = 12 day soak.

    Guys, remember Bacteria in a brine will Eventually cause a problem but this situation is NOWHERE close to the same as a Raw Pork Loin sitting on the Counter 10 hours! You have to take ALL circumstances into consideration before telling a Newb to Toss the Meat! In the WORST situation, a plain raw mishandled piece of pork left out overnight should be tossed. But Brined or coated in a heavy amount of Rub with Salt (antibacterial), Sugar (hygroscopic binding water from use by bacteria) and Spices, (garlic, onion, chiles and black pepper, all have some antibacterial qualities)? Wash it off, re-season and get smoking, very little to no safety issue. Brines are a similar situation for these and the reasons above.

    Is this info USDA approved? No...Just reality! Heck, according to the USDA, you should be tossing everything in your Refer every 3 to 5 Days going strictly by the book! Way High on the ...[​IMG]  ...JJ
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  15. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    If it smelled OK, personally I would  hot roast it at ~350 F (180 C) as a normal bacon joint (in either the oven or BBQ) and would then treat it like a standard cooked joint. It would only be for personal or family consumption though. I am not telling you that you should do the same but that is what I would do.
     
  16. tskar

    tskar Newbie

    It was a cure #1, first attempt using a cure or pork loin. I normally just use a seasoned salt brine and 24 hours seemed to work fine for a pork butt. I will redo the brine and give it a ten day soak. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. Thanks for all the help. Tom
     
  17. uzikaduzi

    uzikaduzi Meat Mopper

    it's whole muscle and would take a lot for anything to go wrong in that time frame internally... externally it was in cure and salt... there are a lot of dried meat products that are done at just slightly below room temperature and when you get undesirable mold on them you wash it off with vinegar. I don't know if it's OK or not but the smell test is actually a pretty good test. I do like the "when in doubt, throw it out" philosophy but i like Chef Jimmy J's take on it.
     
  18. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    The Smell Test is of great value. Looking at the Big Picture...There are Thousands, Millions of types of bacteria and only a dozen or two that cause food illness. Of the thousands, hundreds are not only beneficial, many, once established, kill or inhibit the growth of others including the bad bugs. Just look at Yogurt, Cheese, Pickles and others. Realistically, what are the odds that you absolutely have only bad bacteria in the Brine. They in fact survived the Cure, Salt and Sugar as Lactobacillus can, which inhibits other bacteria. And the time and temp allowed for sufficient numbers to cause an issue EVEN if you ate the meat RAW and this stuff will be cooked TWICE!!! I just don't see a reason to Toss It...JJ[​IMG]
     
    uzikaduzi likes this.
  19. sqwib

    sqwib Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    There is obviously doubt or the OP wouldn't have posted the question, the OP's question does not state who will be served the pork in question. There is such a scare with foodborne illness, that most folks would toss.

    I can guarantee the OP will not get sick from the pork if he chooses to toss the pork, but can someone give the same guarantee that he will not get sick if he does eat it. There are other things to consider like is 85 year old grandma sitting down to this pork dinner. Is the pork bad, probably not, but there are also other considerations such as how the pork was handled before it even got to the OP's table.

    2 sides of the token.

    That's where "when in doubt throw it out", comes to mind. If my mother called me with the same question, I would say toss it, and I would gladly replace the pork for her.

    As I said earlier I would have no problem cooking and eating the pork Myself, first, but would be wary of serving to my family..
     
  20. uzikaduzi

    uzikaduzi Meat Mopper

    not a bad point SQWIB... my feeling towards it is it's not fair to say it's the same as leaving a raw pork loin on the counter for 10 hours and closer to comparing it to the beginning stages of curing whole cuts of meat... there are groups of people who should be more Leary of eating meats that were only cured and or fermented specifically people like an 85 year old grandma.

    in some ways this might be more trustworthy meat than some cured or fermented only products because, like JJ said, it will be cooked like twice. there are a few food borne illnesses that can survive high heat cooking, but not many and even fewer that are commonly found in meat... on the flip side of this things like listeria survive very well at refrigerator temps and even high salt environments but aren't killed until 170*

    in the grand scheme of things, the whole thing was likely $20 and is it worth getting sick for $20? it's not to me, but what are the real chances here? most of us are already accepting a higher than normal risk by curing and cold smoking our own products and did this really make it that much more unsafe?
     

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