I just saw Giada from the Foodnetwork...

Discussion in 'Food Safety' started by richoso1, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. richoso1

    richoso1 Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I just got a response from the FoodNetwork in response to my email regarding Giada's method of marinating/cooking chicken with beef.

    From: Scripps Networks Customer Service <[email protected]>
    Subject: RE: Giada At Home (#6563-178856986-8947)
    To: richoso1
    Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 1:40 PM

     

    Hello and thank you for your email.  Please accept our sincere apology for the delay in getting back to you with this response.

    As long as the meat is cooked correctly, at least medium well, there is no contamination as any germs would have been killed during the cooking process.

    Best regards,

    Scripps Networks Customer Service

    This is their answer, but I still wouldn't do it. Just me.
     
     
  2. bmudd14474

    bmudd14474 Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Me either Rich.
     
  3. ondagawood

    ondagawood Smoke Blower

    X2 here !

    Scott
     
  4. distre

    distre Smoke Blower

    I'd have to do them separately. So much for trusting what you see on foodnetwork.
     
  5. squirrel

    squirrel Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    OMG Food Network is all about the money. I visit their site regularly only to see some of the most ridiculous handling of food, and obviously never prepared recipes. I really don't think they test stuff like they say they do. I have come across may crazy errors. They have turned in to a greedy network. Just my opinion.
     
  6. meateater

    meateater Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member

    32 years ago when I ran a Q we cooked pork,beef and yard bird seperate. I did it daily but can't remember the order, CRS catching up. [​IMG]
     
  7. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    We must be careful what we say.

    Alton Brown & his worshippers could be around.[​IMG]

    Surely such a beautiful young lady like Giada could do no wrong.[​IMG]

    Or the old---"These aren't TV Celebs, these are great cooks & curing & smoking geniuses".

    Bear
     
  8. eman

    eman Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member

    Here is a reply to the question ,Is it ok to marinate beef and chicken in the same container

     From karen at the USDA,
    There is no danger is marinating raw chicken and beef together. If they are cooked thoroughly they will be safe. There is nothing on chicken that can't be killed if it is on beef, and vice-versa. The danger is in mixing raw products with cooked products, because if you get bacteria on a ready-to-eat product it will not be destroyed since it is not going to be cooked. But in the case of raw products, they will all be cooked so the bacteria will be destroyed
     
  9. bbally

    bbally Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Karen is sniffing glue.

    The problem is that beef has different cooking temps allowed then chicken does.

    She would be correct if she said the beef can be marinated with the chicken if it is cooked to poultry temperatures.
     
  10. squirrel

    squirrel Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    I thought that same thing bbally, but I read somewhere (trying to find it to post) that the bacteria is only going to be on the outside of the meat, so it doesn't matter if you cook it rare, you've still killed any bacteria. So I take that to mean the bacteria does not get inside the meat only on the outside. I hope I can find that article.

    I still wouldn't do it. I just think it's creepy.
     
  11. cricky101

    cricky101 Smoke Blower

    I agree that I wouldn't do it either, but your thoughts make sense: The chicken is cooked through to at least 165F killing the bacteria. On the meat, if the bacteria is just on the outside, it would be killed quickly by the 200 degree+ ambient temperatures even if the interior of the meat never gets that hot. But again, that's only if the bacteria is only on the outside ....
     
  12. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    az
    bob, i'm sure that's what karen ment to say but as usual people NOT in the business and DON'T have their livelyhood on the line, fail to effectively communicate just what needs to be done to ensure safety.............but then again those of us who are in the biz would have never subscribed,endorsed, or defended this unsafe food handling practice.
     
     
  13. eman

    eman Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member

    If you go back and read all the replies ,i said that i would not do this .But since everyone here allways refers back to the usda guidelines i figure'd i 'd ask them.

     Wow, now everyone that allways quotes usda regs is all of a sudden a better resource than the one they usually quote.

     Just goes to show that when we as smokers believe something  even the folks that set the rules can't change our minds.
     
  14. shooterrick

    shooterrick Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Well I think we are compareing apples and oranges.  Cooking in the same pan at high heat is not the same animal as slow smoking.  The first difference that comes to mind is poultry by most accounts is smoked at 275-325.  Since these temps are not usually used when smoking say butt, ribs, or brisket, the lower temps for these meats would allow the poultry to remain in the danger zone longer than we would like and thus should not be allowed to drip on other products. 

    We also tend to think of say beef as a bag of water and thus some say never fork a steak while cooking.  Actually this is somewhat of a myth as beef as well as other meat is cellular in makeup so a once or twice poke with a fork only affects those fiber cells damaged.  Once you understand this then we can realize what we are concerned with is the space between the cellular fibors which can be substancial.  Just stretch a piece of well marbeled meat and you will see what I mean.  That leaves alot of area for bad things to get and hide in. Dont let poultry drip on other meat being cooked low and slow.  While an argument can be made that once all producst reach the desired internal temp all bad things are gone, I would encourage anyone to error on the side of safety.       
     
  15. ptbrauch

    ptbrauch Newbie

    Guys, you'll be fine if you marinate even known-to-be-tainted chicken with any other meat in a marinade of orange juice and adding lemon juice and/or lime juice makes it even that much better--their pH range is down closer to 2.  The pH of orange juice ranges from 3 to 4.  No pathogens can grow at that pH level.  A pH level of 4.6 used to be the standard to prevent pathogen growth, but they've now found some Salmonella growth at 4.2 under the right conditions.  So, if the meat was contaminated, it would essentially be sterilized by the marinade.  As a previous poster mentioned, your greatest threat is raw to cooked contamination. 

    And if you were to determine the pH of most marinades you'd find they have low pH's and often high salt contents. A low pH is all part of what makes a marinade work.  The low pH begins to denature the proteins making  up the muscle tissue of the meat, resulting in a more tender piece of meat.  Ever notice how most marinades being with vinegar?  The high salt also acts as a preservative (country ham anyone?).
     
  16. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    az
    so you would be up to drinking a smoothy made from o.j. and raw chicken that was left out overnight?
     
  17. lucky13

    lucky13 Smoke Blower

    chefrob, i would be interested in your recipe for day-old OJ and raw chicken smoothie, sounds delicious [​IMG]
     
  18. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

    Shooter - 

    You are correct, and the difference should be noted.  Cooking foods at high temperatures on the stove or in the oven is NOT the same (and does not necessarily follow the same safety rules) as cooking foods in a smoker.  

    I like Food Network, but I don't chalk them up as experts, and common sense rules the day.   
    Bbally - I agree.  As long as both meats are cooked to the poultry temp, it should be fine. 

    When Brian emailed the USDA in regard to meat & chicken being cooked together, this was part of their response:

    "If chicken drips on beef (or vise versa) in the smoker it is not a safety issue because the chicken and the beef will be cooked thoroughly and the bacteria will be destroyed."

    This would ONLY be an issue, then, if Giada's recipe called for the beef to be removed from the pan prior to the chicken being completely done.  Since her recipe presumably calls for the meat to be completely cooked, I would say that she is being maligned unnecessarily.  

    It might have been nice if the show had made a note to the viewer that the flank stank must remain in the pan with the chicken until the chicken is done.   
     
  19. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    az
    it has nothing to do with only the chicken being done.........now all ingredients must come up to the correct doneness temp for chicken. in theory if it is in the same pan all would be the same but if a part of the beef is covered by somthing else (or just double thickness) it may not have the same exposure to heat as the rest of the food, this is just one reason why it is a potentially unsafe practice.
     
  20. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    az
    it is a real eye opener first in the morning.......not so much around noon time!
     

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