Unsafe NYT Recipe?

[wannasmoak]

I'm a big fan of this forum and amazingribs.com so I've read my share of curing science. I've done a lot of beef pastramis, beef bacon, lamb bacon, etc... but I'm brand new to eating pork. That shouldn't matter for this question... I think.

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1014345-shortcut-guanciale

1lb of pork jowel (I'm using a nice 1lb cut off the cap end of a pork butt and it looks like bacon to me? Never had it before)

2 tablespoons 1 teaspoon kosher salt

1 teaspoon cure #1 (I'm using prague powder #1 which I understand to be the same thing)

Rub it down with some spices and put it in a bag, wait 72 hours.

It just seems like waaay more than the recommended amount. I did it anyways, but I waited 48 hours got afraid it was too much, so I took it out, rinsed it well, and threw it in the traeger on smoke over some lumberjack charcoal hickory (yeah, smoked guanciale I know...).

Just me and the SO risking it all... it HAS to be safe right? They wouldn't post it if it wasnt, right?

 

[TomKnollRFV]

Alright, this sounds like from commentary, some 'short cut' to the proper version. The standard is 1/4 tsp per pound of meat with Pink Salt 1. I don't actually know at what point it becomes dangerous. This very well could be...

They cite an actual cook though as well.... I just don't see why you'd need that much pink salt for a relatively short cure...some one will hopefully chime in who can verify if it is dangerous or not. I never measure cure by the teaspoon, I go by weight.

 

[noboundaries]

It's not dangerous, but it can cause you problems. I once followed a bad recipe that included too much Cure #1, and suffered from gout (swollen joints) for weeks.

Stick to the 1 tsp per 5 lbs of meat, or the correct fraction thereof.

 

[wannasmoak]

Well, we ate it. It was so incredibly salty I thought I was going to die. The point was to make a carbonara, however, and all the videos I watched with guanciale cut the outside off and just used the fatty inside, so I did the same. That cut down on the final product and made it standable, but still too much.

Too bad, because the carbonara turned out pretty amazing, and the guanciale flavor was appreciated. Every time you bit into a real piece of meat though, it was just slightly too much.

Finished about 15 minutes ago. Will update if I die.

 

[TomKnollRFV]

I really think if I found the book it would give a better account of this recipe.. some thing seems off.

Until I see the original recipe..I wonder. Does this Marc Vetri <Apparently where this recipe is from> soak this after curing it?

 

[wannasmoak]

Here's the same recipe at a different website... trying to track it down.
https://www.diningandcooking.com/31188/shortcut-guanciale/

This guy refers to the same chef, but doesn't mention prague #1.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/curing-meat-and-fish-at-home-just-add-salt/

 

[daveomak]

WS, evening... you would be better off if you got an electronic scale that had a range of 0-100 grams....
For meats, try using 2% kosher salt, 1% sugar and 0.25% cure#1...
For that 1# pork jowel the amounts would be...
454 grams meat .... 9 grams salt, 4.5 grams sugar and 1.1 grams cure#1...
If you add those 3 ingredients together and evenly distribute it over the meat, then zip bag it for 7 day or so in a 34-38 deg. F refer, turning daily, you will have success...
Add whatever spices you like... to make the recipe repeatable, in the event it is AWESOME, weigh the individual spices..

 

[wannasmoak]

Found the book by the way... its real. I can't imagine eating something this salty again...

https://books.google.com/books?id=J...QIBhAB#v=onepage&q=shortcut guanciale&f=false

 

[TomKnollRFV]

Here's the same recipe at a different website... trying to track it down.
https://www.diningandcooking.com/31188/shortcut-guanciale/

This guy refers to the same chef, but doesn't mention prague #1.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/curing-meat-and-fish-at-home-just-add-salt/

I saw a few things, it's all the same thing though. This author likely explains it better in his book. I'm seeing if any of my friends have it and can tell me what it says.

 

[wannasmoak]

I saw a few things, it's all the same thing though. This author likely explains it better in his book. I'm seeing if any of my friends have it and can tell me what it says.

Right here: https://books.google.com/books?id=J...QIBhAB#v=onepage&q=shortcut guanciale&f=false

 

[TomKnollRFV]

Right here: https://books.google.com/books?id=JccF30nq8QwC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=shortcut+guanciale&source=bl&ots=0arp4a_aqm&sig=wrHiTGC1EEpUo-KfOsCUrMjdCx0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC3avHmt_dAhUvIDQIHeDdDt44ChDoATAIegQIBhAB#v=onepage&q=shortcut guanciale&f=false

Well...man that just seems so weird a professional cook and writer would make some thing so salty.

 

[chef jimmyj]

The author is using the Quick method. Salt and Cure #1 can be balanced and slow, Pop's Brine, Dave's Dry Cure by percentages and the fast way. Hit the meat with lots of salt and extra cure. This fast method is inconsistent and really needs expert knowledge. Think Italian Grandpa's burying Hams in salt for X number of days, they know from years of training by their Dad and 50 years of making Prosciutto when that size ham should be pulled.
This method works because the higher the salt the faster the dispersion.
Only problem You got to know when to pull it, the Art. To say, " Use a 1 pound Jowl for 3 days..." leaves too many variables. 1 pound but How Thick? Is it from a Lean Duroc Hog or Supper Fatty Mangalitsa? Is the refer at 34° or 38°F? Skin On or Off? These are just a few.
It would make A Lot more sense if the last instruction was...Soak in fresh water 3 hours, test fry a sample, repeat as needed to reach desired salt level.

Safety wise it was higher, 4X more, than typical for a longer cure but not a toxic level. Additionally, the meat gets cooked, further reducing the Nitrite level...JJ

 

[chef jimmyj]

Alright, this sounds like from commentary, some 'short cut' to the proper version. The standard is 1/4 tsp per pound of meat with Pink Salt 1. I don't actually know at what point it becomes dangerous. This very well could be...

They cite an actual cook though as well.... I just don't see why you'd need that much pink salt for a relatively short cure...some one will hopefully chime in who can verify if it is dangerous or not. I never measure cure by the teaspoon, I go by weight.

Here is your answer on Toxic Amount of Cure #1. The Recipe calls for 1 teaspoon about 5.5g...JJ

A toxic amount of cure #1 is 16g.
In 5 pounds, about 3X more than recommended. AND THAT HAS TO BE EATEN RAW AND ALL AT ONCE, as cure dissipates when heated.

 

[TomKnollRFV]

The author is using the Quick method. Salt and Cure #1 can be balanced and slow, Pop's Brine, Dave's Dry Cure by percentages and the fast way. Hit the meat with lots of salt and extra cure. This fast method is inconsistent and really needs expert knowledge. Think Italian Grandpa's burying Hams in salt for X number of days, they know from years of training by their Dad and 50 years of making Prosciutto when that size ham should be pulled.
This method works because the higher the salt the faster the dispersion.
Only problem You got to know when to pull it, the Art. To say, " Use a 1 pound Jowl for 3 days..." leaves too many variables. 1 pound but How Thick? Is it from a Lean Duroc Hog or Supper Fatty Mangalitsa? Is the refer at 34° or 38°F? Skin On or Off? These are just a few.
It would make A Lot more sense if the last instruction was...Soak in fresh water 3 hours, test fry a sample, repeat as needed to reach desired salt level.

Safety wise it was higher, 4X more, than typical for a longer cure but not a toxic level. Additionally, the meat gets cooked, further reducing the Nitrite level...JJ

His book truly does only say Rinse and pat dry too. I'm thinking just how he talks about his use he must use pretty thin pork jowl. It still seems like an awful large amount of salt for so little meat.

 

[chef jimmyj]

No way a rinse will pull that amount of salt. Well maybe, if the Jowl was 1/8" thick....JJ

 

[TomKnollRFV]

No way a rinse will pull that amount of salt. Well maybe, if the Jowl was 1/8" thick....JJ

Thats what I'm thinking!

It's some what scary to me that a professional cook basically proves the point of Modern Americans etc have so much sodium in their diet any thing less then massive amounts tastes bland to them.

 

[wannasmoak]

Well, I live another day. Char Siu on the traeger today! I think I'll be using the leftover guanciale in a shanghai bok choy rice, kind of like sausage. Just need a way to pull some of the salt out. Is it safe to soak it in cold water even though it's already been cooked?

 

[daveomak]

I'd dice it up and use it to season what's left... don't add any more salt to your mix of stuff......