Cure weight/volume calculation.

[Oleg]

Hi guys, I know I am beating a dead horse here but I have a question about the dosage of meat cure. I just got Celery Juice Powder (my wife does not approve Red 3 food dye in Cure#1)
The question: is recommended dosage for wet cure or wet cure plus meat weight? The package on CJP has a recommendation of "0.45-0.9% based on meat green weight" 100-200ppm.

 

[chef jimmyj]

If you are using the Celery Juice Powder as part of a Dry Rub you calculatell based on meat weight only. If you are adding the CJ to a Brine Cure. The calculation is based on the Sum of the green weight of the meat and the weight of the water in the brine. Use 0.7% for 156ppm with most meat. For Belly Bacon, 0.54% will give the recommended 120ppm...JJ

 

[smokin peachey]

Hi guys, I know I am beating a dead horse here but I have a question about the dosage of meat cure. I just got Celery Juice Powder (my wife does not approve Red 3 food dye in Cure#1)
The question: is recommended dosage for wet cure or wet cure plus meat weight? The package on CJP has a recommendation of "0.45-0.9% based on meat green weight" 100-200ppm.

I use 1oz per 10lbs of meat weight when using celery powder from sausage maker as a dry rub.

Here is a post I currently have going on. Smokin the hams and bacon tomorrow

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/aip-paleo-curing.280484/#post-1885792

 

[daveomak]

Check the amount of FD&C Red #3 in the cure.... AND you are using 0.25% cure based on weight of the meat .... The dye should be the same regardless of cure#1 or #2.....

 

[chef jimmyj]

I use 1oz per 10lbs of meat weight when using celery powder.

Here is a post I currently have going on. Smokin the hams and bacon tomorrow

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/aip-paleo-curing.280484/#post-1885792

0.00099% red coloring? Of all the S#!T we breathe, eat, drink and absorb into our skin from things like perfume, antiperspirant, soap, make-up and many more everyday items, a teaspoon of pink cure in 5 pounds of meat is HARDLY anything a person should worry about! That's just hilarious...

I may be wrong but, unless something has changed, there is currently no standardization for the use of Celery Juice. I cant find any info that manufactures formulate to the same standard. The actual amount of Nitrite/Nitrate may vary since the % Nitrite/Nitrate in a natural product like Celery can vary by plant, soil composition, farm, geographical region, country and time of year grown. Since there is ZERO REGULATION, a general statement like " 1oz per 10 pounds of meat ", can result in a very broad range of cure percentages in the meat and may result in a Safety Hazard.
Always go by the manufactures instructions as they will have tested for the amount of cure in each batch they packaged.
If anyone can find info that all brands of Celery Juice Cure contains X% Nitrite/Nitrate, please let me know
...JJ

 

[smokin peachey]

Label from sausage maker celery powder

 

[smokin peachey]

0.00099% red coloring? Of all the S#!T we breathe, eat, drink and absorb into our skin from things like perfume, antiperspirant, soap, make-up and many more everyday items, a teaspoon of pink cure in 5 pounds of meat is HARDLY anything a person should worry about! That's just hilarious...

I may be wrong but, unless something has changed, there is currently no standardization for the use of Celery Juice. I cant find any info that manufactures formulate to the same standard. The actual amount of Nitrite/Nitrate may vary since the % Nitrite/Nitrate in a natural product like Celery can vary by plant, soil composition, farm, geographical region, country and time of year grown. Since there is ZERO REGULATION, a general statement like " 1oz per 10 pounds of meat ", can result in a very broad range of cure percentages in the meat and may result in a Safety Hazard.
Always go by the manufactures instructions as they will have tested for the amount of cure in each batch they packaged.
If anyone can find info that all brands of Celery Juice Cure contains X% Nitrite/Nitrate, please let me know
...JJ

My wife has extreme food allergy’s so I use celery powder to “cure” meat for her to safety enjoy.
Yes it might seem like bs to you but it is what has to be done to help her keep from getting sick.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Peachey, That is what Sausage Makers CJ says.

Here is TCM brand sold on Amazon...

Each packet (Net Wt. 1.25 oz.) can be used for 25 lbs. of ground meat. 1.25 oz. of Celery Juice Powder = approximately 8 tsp. For 10 lb. recipes use 3 1/2 tsp Celery Juice Powder. 3 1/2 teaspoons is slightly more than 0.5 ounce for 10 pounds!

See my point? Going by your general statement of using 1oz for 10 pounds, if I happen to buy TCM instead of Sausage Maker, I would be adding Double the Cure. Not toxic bit not a good idea and who knows how much stronger or weaker the next Brand of Celery Juice is?...JJ

 

[smokin peachey]

Peachey, That is what Sausage Makers CJ says.

Here is TCM brand sold on Amazon...

Each packet (Net Wt. 1.25 oz.) can be used for 25 lbs. of ground meat. 1.25 oz. of Celery Juice Powder = approximately 8 tsp. For 10 lb. recipes use 3 1/2 tsp Celery Juice Powder. 3 1/2 teaspoons is slightly more than 0.5 ounce for 10 pounds!

See my point? Going by your general statement of using 1oz for 10 pounds, if I happen to buy TCM instead of Sausage Maker, I would be adding Double the Cure. Not toxic bit not a good idea and who knows how much stronger or weaker the next Brand of Celery Juice is?...JJ

Edited my post.

Have you used celery powder before? If so I would be interested in your opinion on the results.

 

[chef jimmyj]

I apologize my friend for not being more detailed and prefacing my statement. I did NOT direct that statement at your wife and meant no insult.

I find it amusing that so many people worry about nitrite, or food color or tiny amounts of preservatives in a processed food, but think nothing about the hundreds of chemicals we contact everyday. I saw a young couple come out of a Whole Foods with a basket of Organic, Non-GMO food then LIGHT UP CIGARETTES walking back to their car!

Food allergies are no joke and an increasing health crisis. Not something I would make fun of...JJ

My wife has extreme food allergy’s so I use celery powder to “cure” meat for her to safety enjoy.
Yes it might seem like bs to you but it is what has to be done to help her keep from getting sick.

 

[chef jimmyj]

My students used Celery powder to make Kielbasa. It worked ok, right color with no distinctive taste. But being a Certified Food Safety instructor I went into detail on the problems with no standardization or regulation to ensure a consistently safe product. Honestly, it's better to use CJ than do like the guys you see on YouTube curing bacon and sausage with " salt only " and cold or warm smoking. All because of a fear of Nitrite and Nitrate...JJ

 

[Oleg]

The calculation is based on the Sum of the green weight of the meat and the weight of the water in the brine. Use 0.7%

Sounds good Chef Jimmyj, I am also going to use some smaller pieces to expedite the brining/curing

 

[Oleg]

I use 1oz per 10lbs of meat weight when using celery powder.

This is exactly 0.7%. I assume this should be perfect for dry rub.

 

[Oleg]

Check the amount of FD&C Red #3 in the cure

I am on the same page with you Dave. I think even if you put enriched uranium in your cure 0.00099% will not harm you.

 

[smokin peachey]

This is exactly 0.7%. I assume this should be perfect for dry rub.

Oleg this is when using celery powder from sausage maker. The label I posted is sausage maker’s celery powder. As JJ mentioned not all celery powder is the same.

 

[zwiller]

You can make your own cure sans color if needed. Not rocket science.

University of Nebraska–Lincoln Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources Food Allergy Research and Resource Program
Erythrosine (FD&C #3)
Erythrosine is an artificial food color (red). Erythrosine has been implicated as a causative factor in idiosyncratic reactions on only a few occasions. All of the clinical studies that have occurred on erythrosine have been seriously flawed due to one of more of several factors: use of a mixture of colorants or additives, enrollment of patients with severe chronic conditions such as chronic urticaria or asthma, withdrawal of critical medications from these patients prior to challenges, administration of placeboes first in all challenges, and failure to intersperse placeboes throughout the challenge. Thus, the cause-and-effect relationship has not been documented for erythrosine in idiosyncratic reactions.

 

[Oleg]

As JJ mentioned not all celery powder is the same.

Thank you, didn't think of it. What's your interpretation for the dosage on this product?

 

[Oleg]

You can make your own cure sans color if needed. Not rocket science.

Hi Zwiller, it is rocket science for me :) What's your method?

 

[chef jimmyj]

If you are using the Celery Juice Powder as part of a Dry Rub you calculatell based on meat weight only. If you are adding the CJ to a Brine Cure. The calculation is based on the Sum of the green weight of the meat and the weight of the water in the brine. Use 0.7% for 156ppm with most meat. For Belly Bacon, 0.54% will give the recommended 120ppm...JJ

Weigh the meat in Grams then do the math to get the weight of CJP needed. DO NOT use volume as there are no instructions on how much to use...

Example... 1000g meat X .007 = 7g CJP in a Dry Rub Cure that will give 156ppm.

1000g meat + 1000g water X .007 = 14g CJP in a Brine Cure that will give 156ppm ...JJ

 

[PolishDeli]

Here’s a basic sausage recipe:

1000g Pork
18g Salt
2.5g cure #1
0.0000099*2.5 = 0.000025g = 25µg Red#3

For comparison:
Eating 25µg of weapons grade uranium will expose you to 2.7µSv of radiation (a dental X-ray exposes you to 90µSv. Average yearly background radiation exposure is about 6200µSv).

25µg of VX nerve agent per Kg of body weight is fatal (i.e., 2.5mg for a 100Kg person).

25µg of LSD will take you on a ride.

I suppose you can make color free Cure#1 by purchasing pure NaNO2 and mixing it with the right amount of salt.
Here is a link for 113g:
(113/0.0625)-113 = 1695g of salt.