Just one more Brain F*** smoking this turkey... MONEY SHOT...
- Thread starter daveomak
- Start date
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I used a trussing needle and threaded string next to the neck, on each side... Tied the bird up tight to the stick... then hung it in the smoker... The stub of the neck was above the stick when I started so it eased down about 2".... Basically, there's no meat on the bird there.. a layer of skin on the back and the pocket where the windpipe and esophagus fit.... nothing to contaminate...
We always finish the birds in the oven... even bottom round roasts get finished in the oven.. It's a lot easier that way... Anything over 200 goes in the oven..... around here anyway....
My smoker is for smokin' and the oven is for cookin'......
Thanks again Dave, When I did my last turkey, I smoked it for four hours and finished it in an electric type roaster oven. Guess I wasn't a dumb as I look or just lucky. ;-)
Your posting sure helped solved my problem and gave others a good idea, I never thought of hanging a bird but I can see how it will work. Thanks!! John
Your posting sure helped solved my problem and gave others a good idea, I never thought of hanging a bird but I can see how it will work. Thanks!! John
Here's an assortment of needles.... from trussing and larding.... the larding needles are cool.... You can pull a strip of fat into a hunk of meat to add fat/flavor etc. if you use bacon to thread through the meat...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_s...ywords=trussing+needle&ie=UTF8&qid=1423760857
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_s...ywords=trussing+needle&ie=UTF8&qid=1423760857
You must read my mind, I was looking for needles when your link showed up in my email. I had a needle that was my dad's and I let a guy use it years ago when we would stuff the turkeys. Thanks for the link, I can see why I'll be using these for sure.
<Chuckles> I thought it was a poultry puppet show...........After hanging the ribs the other day, I decided I would hang the turkey... since a 21# bird don't fit too well on the shelves... Well, no shelves created a problem for the giblets... so at 5AM this is what I came up with.... I'm gonna smoke smaller birds from now on.... I do like the idea of hanging the turkey.... I'm gonna have to make some sort of narrow shelf that cantilevers off of the shelf bracket for the giblets ....
Tommy T Hall........ "it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"
Hang em high, smoke em good, eat em fast....................heeeeehaaawwwww
Nice looking bird Dave, love that shade tree engineering!
- May 12, 2011
- 22,167
- 7,166
Howdy Y'all...It is commonly recommended on this and other Smoking websites that Whole " Enhanced " Turkeys no larger than 12-14 pounds be smoked at temperatures below 325°F, unless they are spatchcocked or halved, because the meat is no longer Intact and Bacteria may have contaminated the interior of the meat when the enhancing solution is Injected. At lower smoking temps the meat of Turkeys over 16 pounds have the potential of the Breast meat being in the Danger Zone longer than 4 hours. With the discussion of smoking Whole 20+ pound Turkeys here, I thought I would find out if there is any risk from the Enhancing and if the USDA/FSIS has a recommendation of a Max Weight for whole birds to be Safely Smoked. Should be interesting to see their response.
I submitted the following question to Ask Karen on the USDA/FSIS website. I will post the answer when I receive it...JJ
Turkeys are Smoked at a temperature between 225 and 300*F. What is the maximum weight of an " Enhanced " aka Solution Injected, Turkey that can be safely smoked at these temperatures? The most common answer on Smoking Websites is 12 to 14 Pounds because of the risk of bacterial contamination of the meat during the injection process. Thank You...JJ
For clarification and confirmation of what " Enhanced " means, the following is taken from the product definitions of the National Turkey Federation based on FDA Standards and Labeling Policy Book and the Code of Federal Regulations...http://www.eatturkey.com/foodsrv/manual/glossary
SELF-BASTING Whole body turkeys and turkey products that have been injected with a combination of vegetable oil or broth and flavorings. See alsoTURKEY CONTAINING SOLUTIONS.
TURKEY CONTAINING SOLUTIONS Self basting whole body turkeys and raw turkey products that have been injected with broth and/or fat-based solutions to enhance flavor and moisture content. The amount and composition of these solutions are regulated by the government and must be identified on the product package. These solutions commonly include:
- Broth with seasonings.
- Vegetable oil and solids with seasonings and flavor enhancers.
- Butter with seasonings and flavor enhancers.
According to government regulation, raw bone-in turkey product or whole body turkey injected with up to 3 percent (of product weight) solution or boneless products injected with up to 8 percent solution may be labeled "Basted," "Marinated," "Added for Flavoring" or other similar terms.
If greater amounts of solution are added, the method of addition and amount of solution must be stipulated on the label (e.g., "Injected with up to 12 percent solution of water, salt and phosphates"). These products may not be termed "Basted" or "Marinated."
I submitted the following question to Ask Karen on the USDA/FSIS website. I will post the answer when I receive it...JJ
Turkeys are Smoked at a temperature between 225 and 300*F. What is the maximum weight of an " Enhanced " aka Solution Injected, Turkey that can be safely smoked at these temperatures? The most common answer on Smoking Websites is 12 to 14 Pounds because of the risk of bacterial contamination of the meat during the injection process. Thank You...JJ
For clarification and confirmation of what " Enhanced " means, the following is taken from the product definitions of the National Turkey Federation based on FDA Standards and Labeling Policy Book and the Code of Federal Regulations...http://www.eatturkey.com/foodsrv/manual/glossary
SELF-BASTING Whole body turkeys and turkey products that have been injected with a combination of vegetable oil or broth and flavorings. See alsoTURKEY CONTAINING SOLUTIONS.
TURKEY CONTAINING SOLUTIONS Self basting whole body turkeys and raw turkey products that have been injected with broth and/or fat-based solutions to enhance flavor and moisture content. The amount and composition of these solutions are regulated by the government and must be identified on the product package. These solutions commonly include:
- Broth with seasonings.
- Vegetable oil and solids with seasonings and flavor enhancers.
- Butter with seasonings and flavor enhancers.
According to government regulation, raw bone-in turkey product or whole body turkey injected with up to 3 percent (of product weight) solution or boneless products injected with up to 8 percent solution may be labeled "Basted," "Marinated," "Added for Flavoring" or other similar terms.
If greater amounts of solution are added, the method of addition and amount of solution must be stipulated on the label (e.g., "Injected with up to 12 percent solution of water, salt and phosphates"). These products may not be termed "Basted" or "Marinated."
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I like the way the big individual slices of ham have been injected with so much brine that they can't be called "ham" - it's "ham and water product"
looks like the bird was doing the backstroke in the pan...hahah. Looks great. Earlier someone was talking about using stockinettes, last year I bought some, probably have enough to last the rest of my life. If I remember correctly I bought 50' long piece and then I cut it to whatever length needed. Sort of like the criss cross marks they make when smoking. I'll have to try hanging it by the neck like you did sometime to get that golden look.
Below is a pasteurization table for poultry....
Temperature Time Time Time Time Time Time
°F (°C) 1% fat 3% fat 5% fat 7% fat 9% fat 12% fat
136 (57.8) 64 min 65.7 min 68.4 min 71.4 min 74.8 min 81.4 min
137 (58.3) 51.9 min 52.4 min 54.3 min 56.8 min 59.7 min 65.5 min
138 (58.9) 42.2 min 42.7 min 43.4 min 45.3 min 47.7 min 52.9 min
139 (59.4) 34.4 min 34.9 min 35.4 min 36.2 min 38.3 min 43 min
140 (60.0) 28.1 min 28.5 min 29 min 29.7 min 30.8 min 35 min
141 (60.6) 23 min 23.3 min 23.8 min 24.4 min 25.5 min 28.7 min
142 (61.1) 18.9 min 19.1 min 19.5 min 20.1 min 21.1 min 23.7 min
143 (61.7) 15.5 min 15.7 min 16.1 min 16.6 min 17.4 min 19.8 min
144 (62.2) 12.8 min 12.9 min 13.2 min 13.7 min 14.4 min 16.6 min
145 (62.8) 10.5 min 10.6 min 10.8 min 11.3 min 11.9 min 13.8 min
146 (63.3) 8.7 min 8.7 min 8.9 min 9.2 min 9.8 min 11.5 min
148 (64.4) 5.8 min 5.8 min 5.9 min 6.1 min 6.5 min 7.7 min
150 (65.6) 3.8 min 3.7 min 3.7 min 3.9 min 4.1 min 4.9 min
152 (66.7) 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.4 min 2.8 min
154 (67.8) 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.6 min
156 (68.9) 59 sec 59.5 sec 1 min 1 min 1 min 1 min
158 (70.0) 38.8 sec 39.2 sec 39.6 sec 40 sec 40.3 sec 40.9 sec
160 (71.1) 25.6 sec 25.8 sec 26.1 sec 26.3 sec 26.6 sec 26.9 sec
162 (72.2) 16.9 sec 17 sec 17.2 sec 17.3 sec 17.5 sec 17.7 sec
164 (73.3) 11.1 sec 11.2 sec 11.3 sec 11.4 sec 11.5 sec 11.7 sec
166 (74.4) 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec
Table C.2: Pasteurization times for a 7D reduction in Salmonella for chicken and turkey (FSIS, 2005).
interesting read...........
Kitchen Safety and Avoiding Food Poisoning
Myth: You want to kill all those bugs!
Reality: No, let’s not. First, it is probably impossible to do that. Second, the longer you cook something or the higher temperature you cook it, the more the heat will affect the flavor of the food. There are no guarantees that overcooking food will make it safe, or that undercooking food puts you in danger
Because it is an average, the standards are much higher than commonly needed. Even if you were to kill 99.9999% and someone’s thermometer was off, or the oven was not heating properly, then overcooking provides some safety but at the expense of flavor.
Within the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the entity responsible for this is the Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS). As with most government bodies, it has a scientific advisory panel that makes recommendations. The advisory panel found that the FSIS figures for poultry were way too high. The FSIS recommends temperature and time enough to kill 99.99999 percent of the bacteria but the panel recommended enough to kill 99.995 percent of the bacteria
At 122°F there are no bacteria that are pathogenic (cause illness) to humans that survive. There are, in some hot springs, certain bacteria that thrive at these higher temperatures. These bacteria are not harmful to humans, and would not find the human host hospitable. Ironically, for them the human body is too cool, and they prefer temperatures much higher.
But on Chopped, they reject undercooked food!
I’m a huge fan of the Food Network. On the show Chopped you will see the judges reject food that they consider “undercooked” or “raw.” Are they crazy? Well, they might be (most chefs, like surgeons, get a bit nutty). But they sometimes are overdoing it when it comes to chicken or worrying about cross-contamination in a twenty- to thirty-minute contest. The funny thing is they will eat something that a chef has double-dipped. (The mouth has a far higher bacteria content, but if they would kiss it, they eat it!) The bottom line: overcooking foods ruins the flavor and texture. Pork can be pink, and chicken should not be cooked to an internal temperature of over 145°F ¾and please use a thermometer, because guessing is never precise.
Food poisoning (technically we doctors call it foodborne illness) happens when we eat or drink something that is contaminated with bacteria, parasites, or viruses, or with some chemical that causes illness. Every year forty-eight million people in the United States become ill from food, 128,00 are hospitalized, and three thousand people die from foodborne illnesses.
For beef, the FDA states that it is safe when kept at a temperature of 130°F for 112 minutes or 140°F for twelve minutes. The temperature of a rare steak is between 130°F and 139°F in the center. By cooking the steak for forty-five minutes at 136°F in a sous-vide water oven, you will keep well within the recommended limits. Some cook the steak longer—two to four hours—but I find that forty-five minutes for a one-inch-thick steak works well. The fast grilling of a steak or standard cooking will also kill those bacteria.
With chicken we worry about salmonella. However, if you’re cooking above 130°F, the salmonella bacteria are unable to grow, as are all other common bugs. Still, food safety is important. Wash hands after handling raw meat, and wash all surfaces and utensils after they come in contact with raw meat. It is more likely that the raw meat will contaminate those surfaces and that those surfaces will pass the bugs onto other foods than you will become sick from the meat directly.
Cross-Contamination
The biggest issue with bacteria and food safety is cross-contamination. This means the bugs from one food are passively transferred to another food, where they grow. For example, if you wash some raw chicken in the sink where there is a cutting knife, you can contaminate that knife with bacteria. If you clean the knife insufficiently to rid it of the bacteria and then use it to cut some cooked eggs, these eggs can become the perfect place for bacteria to grow, especially if the eggs sit at room temperature. If you eat the eggs, you can get sick from the chicken. (So the chicken came first. Sorry¾I couldn’t resist.) The lesson here is that if you wash raw poultry in the sink, be sure to have that sink cleaned out well to avoid cross-contaminating other utensils or serving dishes. Anytime you handle any raw meat or eggs, treat everything they touch as if it just came out of the toilet. (3)
Do not use the same cutting board for raw and cooked meats. If you own only one cutting board, be sure to wipe it down with a bleach solution after cutting raw meat on it.
If you use a knife or fork or any instrument on raw meat, wash that utensil carefully. Essentially, consider raw meat to be contaminated, along with anything it touches: you, your clothes, your cooking utensils, your cutting boards, and your knives. Remember, when people get sick from the bacteria from raw meat, it is typically because of cross-contamination from other foods, from food workers’ improper techniques.
Those steam trays at buffets are doing a job. By keeping the temperature of the food at 140°F, they are preventing bacteria from growing. There are two ways to prevent bacteria from being a problem with food: one is to keep the food cool, and the other is to keep it very warm.
Make certain that your refrigerator is kept at 40°F or cooler, and that there is plenty of room for air to circulate in the refrigerator. Keep the freezer at or below 0°F.
Wash your hands carefully. I use a special soap made primarily from alcohol, the same type of soap surgeons use before scrubbing in the operating room. You can purchase this from most stores; one brand is Purell. Always wash after handling raw meat, poultry, fish, shellfish, produce, or raw eggs. Scrub and lather for at least for twenty seconds after handling any raw meat. An easy way to do that is to sing “Happy Birthday” to yourself twice while scrubbing your hands. (4)
Wash all fruits and vegetables under running water before eating or cooking them. Use a vegetable brush to scrub melons and cucumbers, and then dry with a paper towel. Consider the vegetable brush contaminated, so sanitize it frequently.
It is better to throw out food than to be sick. Don’t be afraid to toss out any food that makes you suspicious.
How do food experts decide how much and how long to cook?
Microbiologists have determined how much heat and time is needed to kill ninety percent of the bugs To kill ninety-nine percent of the bugs you have to cook the food for twice as long (or increase the heat).
Myth: Chicken is the predominant source of salmonella.
Reality: A rising number of salmonella infections come from produce, vegetables, fruits, and nuts. Most of the salmonella in produce is not something you can eliminate by washing off the leaves, because the bacteria are in the produce. Your best defense against foodborne bugs in produce is to get the produce fresh and use it quickly. If you can get it from local sources it is often better. Avoid non-pasteurized juices
Cooking food at lower temperatures than ovens worries some people, but sous-vide cooking, as described, is quite safe from bacteria. Chicken held at 148°F for three minutes will kill 99.999999% of salmonella. While most conventional recipes say take chicken out at an internal temperature of 160°F, it only takes fourteen seconds to kill 99.999999% of bacteria. But at 160°F the proteins unfold, release their moisture, and become dry. Cooking at a lower temperature using sous-vide allows you to get that same “kill” rate of bacteria without sacrificing the quality of the meat or vegetables.
The time and temperature combinations for beef can be found from the Food Safety and Inspection Service guidelines.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/fr/95033f-a.htm
Their chart is shared below.
Min Internal Temp °F..... 6.5 log lethality.............. 7.0 log lethality
130°F ..............................112 min ..........................121 min
135°F.............................. 36 min............................ 37 min
140°F ..............................12 min ............................12 min
145°F ..............................4 min ..............................4 min
150°F.............................. 67 seconds .....................72 seconds
The 6.5 log lethality means you are killing 99.99997 percent of the bugs (also called 6.5D). A 7D lethality means you are killing 99.9999999 per cent of the bugs. If you have highly contaminated poultry (37,500 bacteria per gram of raw meat) then 3.5 ounces of meat would have 5.4 million Salmonella. To drop 7D means you would reduce ten million pathogens to one bug. It takes about 105 Salmonella per gram of food to cause illness; fewer Salmonella than that cause no clinical symptoms. Thus, with worst-case scenario you could kill just 99.999 per cent of the bacteria and not have symptoms (a 5D reduction).
The bacteria E. coli strain 0157 can cause illness with as little as ten bacteria per gram of food. Thus a 6.5 D would not be adequate but a 7D would.
As you increase the temperature, it decreases the time. It is a logarithm scale, which is why the drop in time with an increase in temperature.
In low temperature cooking (sous-vide), medium rare beef is typically cooked at 136°F for forty-five minutes to an hour. That provides a large margin of safety when combined with the searing of the surface at 400°F (most bacteria would reside on the surface of the meat) and seasoning the surface of the meat with salt, which also kills bacteria.
Most bacteria do not live above 120°F, and as you increase the temperature you kill more of them. At 102°F most bacteria can no longer reproduce, which is the protective nature of human fevers.
Bottom line: use a thermometer; Sous vide is OK; and don’t overcook your food.
It turns out the risk of chicken is more from using the same cutting board for raw chicken without cleaning it, or spreading the germs from the raw chicken by not washing the utensils or hands properly. This cross-contamination is more of a risk than undercooking poultry or eggs.
Int J Food Micro 2009
Pub Med 19272666
Fresh produce is increasingly found to be at risk for foodborne illness. It has been found in lettuce, pre-made salads, juice, berries, and sprouts. If you purchase pre-washed foods, or foods that are nicely packaged, watch the shelf life, and don’t be afraid to throw it out. It is cheaper to throw out food than to get sick.
J Food Prot 2004
Pub Med ID 15508656
Remember when you were taught that you needed to wash produce in order to prevent foodborne illness? Turns out that isn’t enough. The produce is contaminated before harvest, as the bacteria are internalized into the produce from the root system and into the plant. This prevents removal of the bugs by just washing the produce or using sanitizers on it. We could radiate the food as the only way to insure it free from contamination. Be careful out there. Another reason to think about growing your garden, or getting food from a local farm.
Foodborne Pathog Dis. 2012
Pub Med ID 22458717
Dr. Terry Simpson About Dr. Terry Simpson
Dr. Terry Simpson received his undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Chicago where he spent several years in the Kovler Viral Oncology laboratories doing genetic engineering. He found he liked people more than petri dishes, and received his MD. Dr. Simpson, a renowned weight loss surgeon, is a leading advocate of culinary medicine. A frequent contributor to media outlets discussing health related topics and advances in medicine, he is also a proud dad, husband, author, cook, and surgeon “in that order.”
Temperature Time Time Time Time Time Time
°F (°C) 1% fat 3% fat 5% fat 7% fat 9% fat 12% fat
136 (57.8) 64 min 65.7 min 68.4 min 71.4 min 74.8 min 81.4 min
137 (58.3) 51.9 min 52.4 min 54.3 min 56.8 min 59.7 min 65.5 min
138 (58.9) 42.2 min 42.7 min 43.4 min 45.3 min 47.7 min 52.9 min
139 (59.4) 34.4 min 34.9 min 35.4 min 36.2 min 38.3 min 43 min
140 (60.0) 28.1 min 28.5 min 29 min 29.7 min 30.8 min 35 min
141 (60.6) 23 min 23.3 min 23.8 min 24.4 min 25.5 min 28.7 min
142 (61.1) 18.9 min 19.1 min 19.5 min 20.1 min 21.1 min 23.7 min
143 (61.7) 15.5 min 15.7 min 16.1 min 16.6 min 17.4 min 19.8 min
144 (62.2) 12.8 min 12.9 min 13.2 min 13.7 min 14.4 min 16.6 min
145 (62.8) 10.5 min 10.6 min 10.8 min 11.3 min 11.9 min 13.8 min
146 (63.3) 8.7 min 8.7 min 8.9 min 9.2 min 9.8 min 11.5 min
148 (64.4) 5.8 min 5.8 min 5.9 min 6.1 min 6.5 min 7.7 min
150 (65.6) 3.8 min 3.7 min 3.7 min 3.9 min 4.1 min 4.9 min
152 (66.7) 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.3 min 2.4 min 2.8 min
154 (67.8) 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.5 min 1.6 min
156 (68.9) 59 sec 59.5 sec 1 min 1 min 1 min 1 min
158 (70.0) 38.8 sec 39.2 sec 39.6 sec 40 sec 40.3 sec 40.9 sec
160 (71.1) 25.6 sec 25.8 sec 26.1 sec 26.3 sec 26.6 sec 26.9 sec
162 (72.2) 16.9 sec 17 sec 17.2 sec 17.3 sec 17.5 sec 17.7 sec
164 (73.3) 11.1 sec 11.2 sec 11.3 sec 11.4 sec 11.5 sec 11.7 sec
166 (74.4) 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec 0 sec
Table C.2: Pasteurization times for a 7D reduction in Salmonella for chicken and turkey (FSIS, 2005).
interesting read...........
Kitchen Safety and Avoiding Food Poisoning
Myth: You want to kill all those bugs!
Reality: No, let’s not. First, it is probably impossible to do that. Second, the longer you cook something or the higher temperature you cook it, the more the heat will affect the flavor of the food. There are no guarantees that overcooking food will make it safe, or that undercooking food puts you in danger
Because it is an average, the standards are much higher than commonly needed. Even if you were to kill 99.9999% and someone’s thermometer was off, or the oven was not heating properly, then overcooking provides some safety but at the expense of flavor.
Within the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the entity responsible for this is the Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS). As with most government bodies, it has a scientific advisory panel that makes recommendations. The advisory panel found that the FSIS figures for poultry were way too high. The FSIS recommends temperature and time enough to kill 99.99999 percent of the bacteria but the panel recommended enough to kill 99.995 percent of the bacteria
At 122°F there are no bacteria that are pathogenic (cause illness) to humans that survive. There are, in some hot springs, certain bacteria that thrive at these higher temperatures. These bacteria are not harmful to humans, and would not find the human host hospitable. Ironically, for them the human body is too cool, and they prefer temperatures much higher.
But on Chopped, they reject undercooked food!
I’m a huge fan of the Food Network. On the show Chopped you will see the judges reject food that they consider “undercooked” or “raw.” Are they crazy? Well, they might be (most chefs, like surgeons, get a bit nutty). But they sometimes are overdoing it when it comes to chicken or worrying about cross-contamination in a twenty- to thirty-minute contest. The funny thing is they will eat something that a chef has double-dipped. (The mouth has a far higher bacteria content, but if they would kiss it, they eat it!) The bottom line: overcooking foods ruins the flavor and texture. Pork can be pink, and chicken should not be cooked to an internal temperature of over 145°F ¾and please use a thermometer, because guessing is never precise.
Food poisoning (technically we doctors call it foodborne illness) happens when we eat or drink something that is contaminated with bacteria, parasites, or viruses, or with some chemical that causes illness. Every year forty-eight million people in the United States become ill from food, 128,00 are hospitalized, and three thousand people die from foodborne illnesses.
For beef, the FDA states that it is safe when kept at a temperature of 130°F for 112 minutes or 140°F for twelve minutes. The temperature of a rare steak is between 130°F and 139°F in the center. By cooking the steak for forty-five minutes at 136°F in a sous-vide water oven, you will keep well within the recommended limits. Some cook the steak longer—two to four hours—but I find that forty-five minutes for a one-inch-thick steak works well. The fast grilling of a steak or standard cooking will also kill those bacteria.
With chicken we worry about salmonella. However, if you’re cooking above 130°F, the salmonella bacteria are unable to grow, as are all other common bugs. Still, food safety is important. Wash hands after handling raw meat, and wash all surfaces and utensils after they come in contact with raw meat. It is more likely that the raw meat will contaminate those surfaces and that those surfaces will pass the bugs onto other foods than you will become sick from the meat directly.
Cross-Contamination
The biggest issue with bacteria and food safety is cross-contamination. This means the bugs from one food are passively transferred to another food, where they grow. For example, if you wash some raw chicken in the sink where there is a cutting knife, you can contaminate that knife with bacteria. If you clean the knife insufficiently to rid it of the bacteria and then use it to cut some cooked eggs, these eggs can become the perfect place for bacteria to grow, especially if the eggs sit at room temperature. If you eat the eggs, you can get sick from the chicken. (So the chicken came first. Sorry¾I couldn’t resist.) The lesson here is that if you wash raw poultry in the sink, be sure to have that sink cleaned out well to avoid cross-contaminating other utensils or serving dishes. Anytime you handle any raw meat or eggs, treat everything they touch as if it just came out of the toilet. (3)
Do not use the same cutting board for raw and cooked meats. If you own only one cutting board, be sure to wipe it down with a bleach solution after cutting raw meat on it.
If you use a knife or fork or any instrument on raw meat, wash that utensil carefully. Essentially, consider raw meat to be contaminated, along with anything it touches: you, your clothes, your cooking utensils, your cutting boards, and your knives. Remember, when people get sick from the bacteria from raw meat, it is typically because of cross-contamination from other foods, from food workers’ improper techniques.
Those steam trays at buffets are doing a job. By keeping the temperature of the food at 140°F, they are preventing bacteria from growing. There are two ways to prevent bacteria from being a problem with food: one is to keep the food cool, and the other is to keep it very warm.
Make certain that your refrigerator is kept at 40°F or cooler, and that there is plenty of room for air to circulate in the refrigerator. Keep the freezer at or below 0°F.
Wash your hands carefully. I use a special soap made primarily from alcohol, the same type of soap surgeons use before scrubbing in the operating room. You can purchase this from most stores; one brand is Purell. Always wash after handling raw meat, poultry, fish, shellfish, produce, or raw eggs. Scrub and lather for at least for twenty seconds after handling any raw meat. An easy way to do that is to sing “Happy Birthday” to yourself twice while scrubbing your hands. (4)
Wash all fruits and vegetables under running water before eating or cooking them. Use a vegetable brush to scrub melons and cucumbers, and then dry with a paper towel. Consider the vegetable brush contaminated, so sanitize it frequently.
It is better to throw out food than to be sick. Don’t be afraid to toss out any food that makes you suspicious.
How do food experts decide how much and how long to cook?
Microbiologists have determined how much heat and time is needed to kill ninety percent of the bugs To kill ninety-nine percent of the bugs you have to cook the food for twice as long (or increase the heat).
Myth: Chicken is the predominant source of salmonella.
Reality: A rising number of salmonella infections come from produce, vegetables, fruits, and nuts. Most of the salmonella in produce is not something you can eliminate by washing off the leaves, because the bacteria are in the produce. Your best defense against foodborne bugs in produce is to get the produce fresh and use it quickly. If you can get it from local sources it is often better. Avoid non-pasteurized juices
Cooking food at lower temperatures than ovens worries some people, but sous-vide cooking, as described, is quite safe from bacteria. Chicken held at 148°F for three minutes will kill 99.999999% of salmonella. While most conventional recipes say take chicken out at an internal temperature of 160°F, it only takes fourteen seconds to kill 99.999999% of bacteria. But at 160°F the proteins unfold, release their moisture, and become dry. Cooking at a lower temperature using sous-vide allows you to get that same “kill” rate of bacteria without sacrificing the quality of the meat or vegetables.
The time and temperature combinations for beef can be found from the Food Safety and Inspection Service guidelines.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/fr/95033f-a.htm
Their chart is shared below.
Min Internal Temp °F..... 6.5 log lethality.............. 7.0 log lethality
130°F ..............................112 min ..........................121 min
135°F.............................. 36 min............................ 37 min
140°F ..............................12 min ............................12 min
145°F ..............................4 min ..............................4 min
150°F.............................. 67 seconds .....................72 seconds
The 6.5 log lethality means you are killing 99.99997 percent of the bugs (also called 6.5D). A 7D lethality means you are killing 99.9999999 per cent of the bugs. If you have highly contaminated poultry (37,500 bacteria per gram of raw meat) then 3.5 ounces of meat would have 5.4 million Salmonella. To drop 7D means you would reduce ten million pathogens to one bug. It takes about 105 Salmonella per gram of food to cause illness; fewer Salmonella than that cause no clinical symptoms. Thus, with worst-case scenario you could kill just 99.999 per cent of the bacteria and not have symptoms (a 5D reduction).
The bacteria E. coli strain 0157 can cause illness with as little as ten bacteria per gram of food. Thus a 6.5 D would not be adequate but a 7D would.
As you increase the temperature, it decreases the time. It is a logarithm scale, which is why the drop in time with an increase in temperature.
In low temperature cooking (sous-vide), medium rare beef is typically cooked at 136°F for forty-five minutes to an hour. That provides a large margin of safety when combined with the searing of the surface at 400°F (most bacteria would reside on the surface of the meat) and seasoning the surface of the meat with salt, which also kills bacteria.
Most bacteria do not live above 120°F, and as you increase the temperature you kill more of them. At 102°F most bacteria can no longer reproduce, which is the protective nature of human fevers.
Bottom line: use a thermometer; Sous vide is OK; and don’t overcook your food.
It turns out the risk of chicken is more from using the same cutting board for raw chicken without cleaning it, or spreading the germs from the raw chicken by not washing the utensils or hands properly. This cross-contamination is more of a risk than undercooking poultry or eggs.
Int J Food Micro 2009
Pub Med 19272666
Fresh produce is increasingly found to be at risk for foodborne illness. It has been found in lettuce, pre-made salads, juice, berries, and sprouts. If you purchase pre-washed foods, or foods that are nicely packaged, watch the shelf life, and don’t be afraid to throw it out. It is cheaper to throw out food than to get sick.
J Food Prot 2004
Pub Med ID 15508656
Remember when you were taught that you needed to wash produce in order to prevent foodborne illness? Turns out that isn’t enough. The produce is contaminated before harvest, as the bacteria are internalized into the produce from the root system and into the plant. This prevents removal of the bugs by just washing the produce or using sanitizers on it. We could radiate the food as the only way to insure it free from contamination. Be careful out there. Another reason to think about growing your garden, or getting food from a local farm.
Foodborne Pathog Dis. 2012
Pub Med ID 22458717
Dr. Terry Simpson About Dr. Terry Simpson
Dr. Terry Simpson received his undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Chicago where he spent several years in the Kovler Viral Oncology laboratories doing genetic engineering. He found he liked people more than petri dishes, and received his MD. Dr. Simpson, a renowned weight loss surgeon, is a leading advocate of culinary medicine. A frequent contributor to media outlets discussing health related topics and advances in medicine, he is also a proud dad, husband, author, cook, and surgeon “in that order.”
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There are several methods that qualify for "pasteurizing" foods... The government, currently, is reviewing definitions for several methods...
Cooking using heat is the method we use..... like a pressure cooker.... boiling water.... oven... etc....
There are several methods that qualify for "pasteurizing" foods... The government, currently, is reviewing definitions for several methods...
Cooking using heat is the method we use..... like a pressure cooker.... boiling water.... oven... etc....
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susieqz
Smoking Fanatic
sure wish i understood that article.
should i follow their procedure n oven cook for 1 hour before smoking?
should i follow their procedure n oven cook for 1 hour before smoking?
The "DANGER ZONE REEVALUATED".....
http://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/magazine-archive1/februarymarch-2004/the-danger-zone-reevaluated/
http://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/magazine-archive1/februarymarch-2004/the-danger-zone-reevaluated/
It is Valentines tomorrow you could get your bride a new smoker for Valentines day.
My Pop once got my Mom a doz. golf balls for Valentines, ( he played, she didn't........LOL) ! That was funny even as a kid!
- May 12, 2011
- 22,167
- 7,166
LOL Dave, I understand and buy all that info you posted. I totally agree. Meat is not Black and White, if 4 Pork Butts, that were Injected, took 5 or 6 hours to get to 140°, it does not automatically mean they have to be Tossed... Last year I roasted my Turkey to an IT of 150°. After 30 minutes on the counter the breast was 158°F and my family and a few guests enjoyed the juiciest White Meat we have ever eaten. But we have to be consistent here. There are hundreds of turkey posts that have told folks 12-14 pounds is the max recommended weight for whole birds and anything bigger, Spatchcock. Enhanced is Injected and the 4 hour Rule applies. Whole 20 Lb+ birds may not get to 140°F in four hours at Low smoker temps. So I am not trying to discredit you or anything about that Beautiful Bird you made. I am just following Jeff's policy. Real nice job on that Turkey...JJ
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