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What temp and how long? Fresh Sausage

SWFLsmkr1

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Hubbawubba chipawubba

But whadda i know cuz i dont use his book.

 

Bearcarver

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how so......i would be interested in this method, thx.
Here ya go Rob:

When I was pretty new on this forum, about a year & a half ago, my son had a bunch of very bland rings of fresh Venison Sausage. It was in the freezer pretty long & nobody wanted to eat any more of it. It was very tasteless! I love Smoked Sausage, so I started looking into it.

The links below will show what & how I did it, and it ended up GREAT !!!!

First test of changing stuffed fresh sausage to smoked sausage:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/83516/changing-fresh-venison-sausage-to-smoked

The rest of the sausage:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/84129/venison-sausage-converted

Bear
 

chefrob

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i'm still wondering how the cure got through the casings that were not pricked...i didn't think they were poreous. also looking at the timeline in the second post i wondered if the cure was really needed. if you started @ 9am and then finished to an IT of 165 @ 3:30, i wonder what time it was @ the 140 mark. i know it was a long time ago but do you remember? i guess another thing is how long the meat was in the danger zone while being made into sausage before you got it......that time would have to be added into the time frame while smoking from 40-140. did you add any spices to the cure and could you taste the cure? i am still learning about sausage making and i haven't come across a fresh to cure method........prolly since it was not yer intention in the first place.
 

Bearcarver

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i'm still wondering how the cure got through the casings that were not pricked...i didn't think they were poreous. also looking at the timeline in the second post i wondered if the cure was really needed. if you started @ 9am and then finished to an IT of 165 @ 3:30, i wonder what time it was @ the 140 mark. i know it was a long time ago but do you remember? i guess another thing is how long the meat was in the danger zone while being made into sausage before you got it......that time would have to be added into the time frame while smoking from 40-140. did you add any spices to the cure and could you taste the cure? i am still learning about sausage making and i haven't come across a fresh to cure method........prolly since it was not yer intention in the first place.
Good questions:

The casing was an animal edible casing, so the cure went through completely, just like a part of the animal. Many people cure & smoke Bacon with the rind on it (I don't), and that's thousands of times thicker than this skin was.

I used cure mainly to give me the "Smoked Sausage" flavor & the smoked sausage color, not only to be able to low & slow smoke it. I didn't care when it got to 140˚, because I wanted to be able to eat it cold, and I wanted the "Smoked Sausage" flavor, just like the difference between my cured Smoked Pork Chops & regular Pork Chops.

These things were originally made in a butcher shop. Then they were in my Son's freezer for about a year--no freezer burn. I didn't worry about any time the butcher used, just like I don't consider the time you take to drive your meat home in your car/truck, or the time it sits in the store above 40˚, etc, etc.

The butcher already had enough seasonings in, so all I did was add the cure.

Note: no wording above was meant to be sarcastic----Just the best way I could think of explaining my reasonings.

I think I may have been the first to do this, because I looked for weeks, and could not find it anywhere. 

I probably will never do it again, but I posted it in case anyone runs into the same situation as I did. It worked GREAT !

Later Rob,

Bear
 
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alblancher

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I would not cure and slow smoke a stuffed sausage in casings that was made a year and a half ago by someone that claims there where no cures used (if memory serves).  I have looked for techniques that call for curing sausage through a casing and was not able to find one.  The amount of cure required for a whole cut dry cured is 4xs the amount of cure required for a comminuted sausage.   I am not able to qualify how a cure would penetrate the casing barrier and move through a ground product that has had cell structrure damage by extended freezing at 0 degrees.  Perhaps in this instance a cure/brine/spice injection and wet cure would be more appropriate

Extended freezing changes the ph of the meat, the available moisture in the meat and the structure of the meat proteins.  All important to the curing process.

My good friend is still alive and kicking so at least in this instance the method worked.  He got the product he wanted and didn't get sick. 

I could not give you the same advice and be comfortable that you would have the same success.
 

Bearcarver

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I would not cure and slow smoke a stuffed sausage in casings that was made a year and a half ago by someone that claims there where no cures used (if memory serves).  This particular butcher never uses cure in any venison sausage (That's not a memory thing). I have looked for techniques that call for curing sausage through a casing and was not able to find one. There wasn't any---I was the first---Someone always has to be first. The amount of cure required for a whole cut dry cured is 4xs the amount of cure required for a comminuted sausage.  No---The amount of Tender Quick needed when mixing it within the sausage is half as much as needed in whole meat. I used the same amount as I would use for whole meat, because it had to travel from the outside to the center, like it has to in whole meat. I am not able to qualify how a cure would penetrate the casing barrier and move through a ground product that has had cell structrure damage by extended freezing at 0 degrees. Of course you can't---You didn't do it.  Since I did it, I am able to qualify that it worked fine, and there was no difference between the pricked casings & the non-pricked casings. Perhaps in this instance a cure/brine/spice injection and wet cure would be more appropriate. I doubt it, because the method I used worked perfectly. I don't know how to out-do perfect.

Extended freezing changes the ph of the meat, the available moisture in the meat and the structure of the meat proteins.  All important to the curing process. See below.

My good friend is still alive and kicking so at least in this instance the method worked.  He got the product he wanted and didn't get sick. True.

I could not give you the same advice and be comfortable that you would have the same success.  See below.
Al,

This proves one of the good things about Tender Quick:

Since I used Tender Quick, which is designed & manufactured for "Home Meat Curing", there are safety features built into it. One is that it stays mixed properly, without re-mixing it every time you remove some from the container. The other is the fact that they mix the salt with the cure.

If I would have used too much Tender Quick, it would have been too salty to eat. (A warning you do not get with other cures)

If I would not have used enough TQ, it would not have gotten red all the way to the middle during the salt fry test.

I believe these proofs have taken care of your concerns.

It was excellent.

Bear
 
 

exhaustedspark

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I still leave Sausage Pizza out all night on the counter and have it cold in the morning at room temp.  The choices are ours to make and i would have ate one or 2 or 3 of them sausages if i was there and was offered some.

Karl
 
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Bearcarver

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Typing everything in Caps doesn't make you right.

I believe I explained how everything worked, why it was safe, and why I did it.

I also explained why I probably never will do it again, but it certainly won't be because it isn't safe.

If anyone who knows anything about curing with TQ reads the threads, they can see there wasn't anything unsafe about it.

Back then I believe there were some pretty well versed folks commenting on those threads, who didn't seem to find anything wrong with what I did.

I and many others have eaten various meats that were in the freezer for a year or longer, and pulling it out, thawing it, curing it, and smoking it, are no different, as long as you use the proper amounts, and the proper times & temps, and follow the procedure for checking it along the way.

And this case isn't "Getting away with something" Mr Spark, it is doing everything in a safe & accurate manner, and recording it as proof. Hang in there---You'll get there.

Anyone else doesn't like it, don't follow it.

Bear
 

DanMcG

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Hey Bear them weren't caps, just large print. There's no need to be that way,
 

Bearcarver

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Hey Bear them weren't caps, just large print. There's no need to be that way,
Large print or  ALL CAPS, doesn't matter.

If he needed to type print that big, how could he read enough of my threads to be able to tell me "I got away with an unsafe smoke".

I explained why everything I did (more than a year ago) was perfectly safe.

I think I do enough positive things for this forum to not have to take @#%^ like that, and I don't need any reprimanding from you for defending myself.

I've been defending myself or my country for too long to stop now.

Thank You,

Bear
 

alelover

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Come on girls let's quit bickering and put our penises back in their holsters. We don't need anyone withdrawing or any thing extreme here. If you need bigger print hold the ctrl key and roll the mouse wheel. Disagreeing can be productive. It helps us compromise and find a middle ground that is best for all. Now go smoke something.
 

SmokinAl

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WOW how did I miss this. It's better than a soap opera!
 

exhaustedspark

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 I tried that Control scroll and it does nothing for me at all. I am using xp maybe that has something to do with it. I know even less about the comp then i do about BBQs.

Always willing to hear advice and learn something new. Even if i need to read it a few hundred times before i get it into the noggin.

Karl
 
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johnyd

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Heres a rule of thumb for temp conversion.

Take the Celsius reading

eg: 20 'C

Double that value

eg  40

Add 15 and the end result is the equivalent Farenheight Temp

eg: 55 'F
 

Bearcarver

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Heres a rule of thumb for temp conversion.

Take the Celsius reading

eg: 20 'C

Double that value

eg  40

Add 15 and the end result is the equivalent Farenheight Temp

eg: 55 'F
But I believe the equivalent of 20˚ C------is-----68˚ F ?

I use this:

Quick Conversion Guide
°C to °FMultiply by 9, then divide by 5, then add 32
°F to °CDeduct 32, then multiply by 5, then divide by 9
Bear
 

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