Thinking about corning some shanks

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Omnivore

Smoking Fanatic
Original poster
Jul 11, 2019
324
241
Hi all,

I harvested a deer a few days ago and just finished my favorite part of hunting (aside from cooking) which is the butchering. I've made osso bucco and other braises with the bone-in shank but this time took the meat off the bone to save freezer space. I'm thinking that this time, instead of using round roasts, I'd corn the shanks, as I could shred the end product and it would still be moist with all of that broken down connective tissue. Does anyone see a problem with corning all of the shank chunks? The only complication I see is that the shank pieces are in a variety of sizes so I'd have to pull them from the brine at different times. Thanks for any feedback!
 
Hi all,

I harvested a deer a few days ago and just finished my favorite part of hunting (aside from cooking) which is the butchering. I've made osso bucco and other braises with the bone-in shank but this time took the meat off the bone to save freezer space. I'm thinking that this time, instead of using round roasts, I'd corn the shanks, as I could shred the end product and it would still be moist with all of that broken down connective tissue. Does anyone see a problem with corning all of the shank chunks? The only complication I see is that the shank pieces are in a variety of sizes so I'd have to pull them from the brine at different times. Thanks for any feedback!
Regarding the complication, just completely avoid it. Use an Equilibrium Cure brine with just the right amount of salt and cure for meat plus water. Let it equalize. No need to pull any pieces at different times, they all even out to correct salt and nitrite. Diggingdogfarm dot com has a nice EC calculator.
 
^^^^yep. dry brine it equilibrium cure. mix it all up , bag it, let it go... measure the diameter of the thickest piece and use that for your timeline Calculations....
With multiple pieces, I like to liquid brine for equilibrium, so I am sure all get same levels. Easier than separate bags or weighing out parts of total. So for shanks, small with wierd shapes, much easier. For big single pieces, dry Equibrium rub works great.

I do buckboard bacon this way all the time, usually use about 50% meat weight of water. Lets the pieces all be covered nicely in bucket, but still loose enough to be completely surrounded.

this is 4kg coppa fat sides, 2L brine. I use diggingdogfarm calculator or genuineideas dot com, both are fine. But both are very close to a straight calculation. I use 3% salt for bacon, would also be nice for salty corned beef flavor, so for 4kg meat + 2kg water, that is 6kg x 30g salt = 180g. Web calculations are within 5g or so. Same deal for sugar. For cure#1 just use 2.5g per kg total, so 15g if this was corned shanks--that gives 156ppm nitrite.
Since I'm making bacon and planning on frying it, I use the lower FSIS bacon limit of 120ppm nitrite, so just use 1.9g cure#1 per kg, or 11.4 for this batch, super easy and simple! You can subtract about that much salt to be on target, as cure1 is 93.75% salt.

Huge fan of Equilibrium brines, as I can't oversalt stuff, and can let it brine 5 to 15 days without issue if I'm away from home on a trip. Home Depot sells these 2 gal food safe buckets, perfect to fit in fridge!
20221026_212819.jpg
 
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With multiple pieces, I like to liquid brine for equilibrium, so I am sure all get same levels. Easier than separate bags or weighing out parts of total. So for shanks, small with wierd shapes, much easier. For big single pieces, dry Equibrium rub works great.

I do buckboard bacon this way all the time, usually use about 50% meat weight of water. Lets the pieces all be covered nicely in bucket, but still loose enough to be completely surrounded.

this is 4kg coppa fat sides, 2L brine. I use diggingdogfarm calculator or genuineideas dot com, both are fine. But both are very close to a straight calculation. I use 3% salt for bacon, would also be nice for salty corned beef flavor, so for 4kg meat + 2kg water, that is 6kg x 30g salt = 180g. Web calculations are within 5g or so. Same deal for sugar. For cure#1 just use 2.5g per kg total, so 15g if this was corned shanks--that gives 156ppm nitrite.
Since I'm making bacon and planning on frying it, I use the lower FSIS bacon limit of 120ppm nitrite, so just use 1.9g cure#1 per kg, or 11.4 for this batch, super easy and simple! You can subtract about that much salt to be on target, as cure1 is 93.75% salt.

Huge fan of Equilibrium brines, as I can't oversalt stuff, and can let it brine 5 to 15 days without issue if I'm away from home on a trip. Home Depot sells these 2 gal food safe buckets, perfect to fit in fridge!
View attachment 647791
Equilibrium brine cures seem nice, but do you know how much nitrite is uptaked into the meat without injection? A little inside baseball,,,, only about 10% of what’s in the brine. So an equilibrium brine made up of water with not 156ppm nitrite but 1973ppm nitrite will impart only 197ppm nitrite at 10% uptake. This is a USDA recommended brine, btw, so on the equilibrium brine you will be lucky to uptake above 50ppm nitrite. This seems to work fine but lots of people don’t understand how brines work, they are based on 10% uptake.

Dry rubs on the other hand are much more powerful and much more predictable. The salt and cure applied to meat in a dry rub is 100% to the meat, where brines are maybe 10% but much more like 4-5% if not injected.

When making a brine, maximum salt content is 26% any more and the salt will stay in crystal form and sink to the bottom. This is total salt saturation in water, 26%.

When we apply salt cure to meat as a dry rub, the salt we apply, as well as nitrite, is 100% applied to the meat. Uptake to meat is all of it, not 10% maximum.
 
do you know how much nitrite is uptaked into the meat without injection? A little inside baseball,,,, only about 10% of what’s in the brine. So an equilibrium brine made up of water with not 156ppm nitrite but 1973ppm nitrite will impart only 197ppm nitrite at 10% uptake. This is a USDA recommended brine, btw, so on the equilibrium brine you will be lucky to uptake above 50ppm nitrite. This seems to work fine but lots of people don’t understand how brines work, they are based on 10% uptake.

Yes, I agree, and your info is good for many aapplications. Direct application of dry salt and cure is much more efficient, as is pumping, thus their use commercially to almost the complete exclusion of immersion. For big chunks of meat, I also like the much more efficient dry rub cure.

Your description above is Method One of the two recognized FSIS calculation methods, pumped or short immersion where weight pickup is used. This is the overwhelming method commercially due to efficiency, time, and cost. So it is emphasized a lot and folks forget it is not the only method.

However, the FSIS Inspectors Handbook recognizes a 2nd method, long term immersion curing. While not used commercially, this is a common method home makers use with liquid brines, where meat is kept in brine for up to weeks instead of hours, or pumped/massaged/cooked in hours as most commercial operations do. Because it's a common home method, it's important to remember it exists and is different from the weight gain calculations.

From the USFDA FSIS Inspectors Handbook:
Nitrite in Immersed Products
In immersion curing, the submerged meat or poultry absorbs the cover pickle solution, slowly,
over a long period of time. There are two recognized methods for calculating the allowable
ingoing amount of nitrite in immersion cured products. The method used depends on the
mechanism of movement of nitrite within the meat and/or poultry/pickle system and into the meat,
meat byproduct, or poultry tissue itself.
[...]
Method Two
The second method assumes that the submerged meat, meat byproduct, or poultry and the
cover pickle act as a single system. Over time, the ingredients in the pickle, such as nitrite
and salt, migrate into the meat, meat byproduct, and poultry until levels in the tissue and in
the pickle are balanced. This system is actually very complex and dynamic, with

components in constant motion, but it will reach and maintain a state of equilibrium.
[...]
--Note: the
calculation method for nitrite in immersion cured bacon is the same as that for nitrite in other
immersion cured products. Refer to pages 21-24
--------
Additionally, FSIS lists numerous methods it calls uncommon commercially, but gives guidance to inspectors on using the two published calculation methods. One of those is injection with, followed by immersion in, an Equilibrium brine to speed the equilibrium process, using method 2. This is what I primarily use for small chunks like buckboard bacon where I'm doing several small pieces at once.

If readers want more information along with time delay nitrate diffusion tests in a meatblock via diffusion, I refer you to Dr. Greg Blonder, former Director of Bell Labs, who maintains a site on meat science and publishes on Equilibrium curing at genuineideas dot com.

While not of interest to many, it's nice to see you take the numbers seriously and post info that will help folks learn.
Opinions and bad info abound on internet, and since I am definitely not interested in having an argument, I take my info directly from the FSIS Inspectors Handbook and their indepth calculation examples.

As these last couple posts show, it can be hard to calculate nitrite levels, multiple methods exist, and can take a bit of reasoning. It's just a side discussion to meat making, but good to have once in a while, while not losing sight of the fun and simplicity. But We all have the same goal-- to make great tasting healthy meat products safely.

Best regards ;)
 
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Yes, I agree, and your info is good for many aapplications. Direct application of dry salt and cure is much more efficient, as is pumping, thus their use commercially to almost the complete exclusion of immersion. For big chunks of meat, I also like the much more efficient dry rub cure.

Your description above is Method One of the two recognized FSIS calculation methods, pumped or short immersion where weight pickup is used. This is the overwhelming method commercially due to efficiency, time, and cost. So it is emphasized a lot and folks forget it is not the only method.

However, the FSIS Inspectors Handbook recognizes a 2nd method, long term immersion curing. While not used commercially, this is a common method home makers use with liquid brines, where meat is kept in brine for up to weeks instead of hours, or pumped/massaged/cooked in hours as most commercial operations do. Because it's a common home method, it's important to remember it exists and is different from the weight gain calculations.

From the USFDA FSIS Inspectors Handbook:
Nitrite in Immersed Products
In immersion curing, the submerged meat or poultry absorbs the cover pickle solution, slowly,
over a long period of time. There are two recognized methods for calculating the allowable
ingoing amount of nitrite in immersion cured products. The method used depends on the
mechanism of movement of nitrite within the meat and/or poultry/pickle system and into the meat,
meat byproduct, or poultry tissue itself.
[...]
Method Two
The second method assumes that the submerged meat, meat byproduct, or poultry and the
cover pickle act as a single system. Over time, the ingredients in the pickle, such as nitrite
and salt, migrate into the meat, meat byproduct, and poultry until levels in the tissue and in
the pickle are balanced. This system is actually very complex and dynamic, with

components in constant motion, but it will reach and maintain a state of equilibrium.
[...]
--Note: the
calculation method for nitrite in immersion cured bacon is the same as that for nitrite in other
immersion cured products. Refer to pages 21-24
--------
Additionally, FSIS lists numerous methods it calls uncommon commercially, but gives guidance to inspectors on using the two published calculation methods. One of those is injection with, followed by immersion in, an Equilibrium brine to speed the equilibrium process, using method 2. This is what I primarily use for small chunks like buckboard bacon where I'm doing several small pieces at once.

If readers want more information along with time delay nitrate diffusion tests in a meatblock via diffusion, I refer you to Dr. Greg Blonder, former Director of Bell Labs, who maintains a site on meat science and publishes on Equilibrium curing at genuineideas dot com.

While not of interest to many, it's nice to see you take the numbers seriously and post info that will help folks learn.
Opinions and bad info abound on internet, and since I am definitely not interested in having an argument, I take my info directly from the FSIS Inspectors Handbook and their indepth calculation examples.

As these last couple posts show, it can be hard to calculate nitrite levels, multiple methods exist, and can take a bit of reasoning. It's just a side discussion to meat making, but good to have once in a while, while not losing sight of the fun and simplicity. But We all have the same goal-- to make great tasting healthy meat products safely.

Best regards ;)
Thanks for the reply Dave,
Im generally just not a fan of cover brine curing, in my mind it’s too time consuming and not predictable in final results With previously frozen meats like most people buy from the market. I do however like brine injection curing and use this method exclusively for hams. In this way I weigh out 10% meat weight in liquid, such as unsalted vegetable broth, then add to that cure #1 at .25% salt at 1.5% sugar at .75% and phosphate at .4% all is gently heated to about 90F and dissolved then cooled and I inject all of the brine into the ham. In this way I know exactly how much of all ingredients are in the ham. These are bagged and refrigerated for 10 to 12 days then smoked and rested. 100% success and 100% repeatable results. No need for submurging in brine at all, sort of just cut to the chase.
 
Wow so much great information from you folks. Sounds like there are a couple ways to go about it. I appreciate all of the knowledge!!!

indaswamp indaswamp and others who recommend dry cure - the recipe I've used previously ( https://honest-food.net/corned-venison-recipe/ ) has pickling spice - whole seeds, dried herbs, cinnamon sticks, fresh garlic - added to the brine. Would you recommend blitzing these in a grinder and adding to a dry cure? I just want to make ensure it has the 'corned beef' flavor. Would you still dry cure if you were adding all that stuff in addition to the basic salt-sugar- nitrite cure? Thank you!
 
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