salting, curing meats before grinding into Klobasy sausage?

[Polka]

Howdy All
Have been researching Czech Klobasy recipes, and doing sorta okay. But, I decided to see how the European Czechs are making sausage nowadays, and was using google translator.

In several instances, they are using "salt pork," "salt beef," and they are smoked at the end.

Should I assume since they are smoking it at the end, it is salted, and cured? (Then ground, and spiced, mixed, stuffed), and then smoked?? Their directions are often scant. Searching old Czech/American communities, churchs, etc, cookbooks, and their recipes are often scant too. So, there is alot of wiggle room in trying one of these out. But I would think to work with common sausage making practices like we all use / share here on this forum.

Here are two:

Hanacky Klobasy
Spices per kg salted meat: pepper 3 g, cumin crushed 2 g, garlic Třený 1 g, sweet paprika 1 g, water .5l, stuff hog casings; smoked

Paprika Klobasy
Spices per kg salt meat:
pepper 2 g
hot paprika 5 g
sweet paprika 4 g
cumin ground 2 g
garlic Třený 4 g
water .5l
stuff hog casings, smoked

Do you think my conclusions are correct??
Thanks, Rex

 

[tropics]

Rex I do not see why you couldn't make it with them recipes,just add the proper amount of cure #1
Richie

 

[crazymoon]

P, I see a lot of old recipes that call for the meat and cure to rest in the fridge for a day.I believe this was more for a saltpeter cure and not modern cure #1,maybe the salt pork/beef is a reference to this rest? I just grind,mix spices/cure and stuff and rest for a day for the spices to permeate the meat and smoke the next day.

 

[Polka]

Tropics, Crazymoom, and Chopsaw, thanks for the replies, and likes. I figured as much. Appreciate this.

I have several Klobasy recipes now, most of which I have already tried, and willling to share if anyone wants them.
Thanks

Rex, aka Polka

 

[Polka]

Well, I learned something on the polish-american site, about my question above.

The topic was about adding binders.

One of the moderators mentioned that adding all the salt and cure #1 to the meat, packing it tight, and refrigerator for 48 hours will hasten the extraction of the myosin, and when removed from the fridge, it will already be sticky, and ready for all the next steps.

So, there is the reason the recipes for smoked sausages were posted as salted, and cured before grinding, adding spices, etc. It helps with the binding of the sausage without the extras we often use. Moderns are just in too much of a hurry. So they add things to speed things up. Old style is just a bit more laid back, and let nature take its course.

Hope this helps any and all.

Rex, aka Polka[/QUOTE]

 

[KrisUpInSmoke]

Tropics, Crazymoom, and Chopsaw, thanks for the replies, and likes. I figured as much. Appreciate this.

I have several Klobasy recipes now, most of which I have already tried, and willling to share if anyone wants them.
Thanks

Rex, aka Polka

Wow! I want them! What luck running into your post! I haven't started making sausage yet but Czech and Polish kielbasa are the first ones I want to try. I think they'd make great posts from you too!

 

[Polka]

Wow! I want them! What luck running into your post! I haven't started making sausage yet but Czech and Polish kielbasa are the first ones I want to try. I think they'd make great posts from you too!

Thanks for the encouragement, Kris!

Kielbasa will be the best beginner sausage, I suppose, because it is simple and straight forward, and will be better than what you can buy, yet familiar. Study all the correct sausage procedures, and make notes. While making your sausage, make more notes as you go along. Suggestion: Always follow the recipe first, make adjustments to the recipe later. Helps speed up the learning curve. Meats and herbs / spices change on a whim. Procedures are very important to making this a fun hobby for you, and your family and friends. Basic sausage starts out meat, salt, pepper, in a casing. Kielbasa is one of the simplest with Meat, s/p, maybe a little sugar, always some garlic, and maybe one herb, very likely marjoram. Cure is added if you wish to smoke it. Smoked is very traditional. Non- smoked kielbasa is known as Kielbasa biala (white). It is a fresh sausage that is not cured, and treated like a brat -- simmer, and browned in a skillet or grill, or browned in an oven.

Try this (I can't remember where I found it, but Kiebasa is very, very common on all the forums, and online):


Recipe
(meats can be, probably should be, a bit more fatty than mentioned below)

• 3 lbs boned pork butt, 80% lean
• 2 lbs trimmed beef chuck
• 8 cloves crushed fresh garlic (substitute granulated garlic at 1 teaspoon per clove).
• 2 tablespoons Kosher salt
• 1 tablespoon fine ground black pepper
• 1 tablespoon dried marjoram
• 1 level teaspoon Prague Powder #1 or Instacure #1
• 1 cup ice water

1. Trim the pork and beef, cut it into 1 inch cubes, and grind it through the medium plate of your meat grinder.
2. Combine the spices and cure in a small container and mix with the 1 cup of ice water.
3. Pour the spice, cure, and water combination into the ground meat and mix thoroughly for at least 2 minutes. Use your hands for mixing to assure even distribution. Use a mixer of some sort if you wish. You will want it to be very sticky -- better bind. I mix mine more like 7 to 10 minutes by machine. STICKY.
   
4. Once the sausage is fully mixed, stuff it immediately into large sized (35-38mm) natural hog casing, or collagen.
5. Prepare the sausage for the smoker and then smoke until you have the desired depth of color and temperature.

Hope this helps you along. Thanks for asking. Much success to you, and yours.

Rex
aka Polka

 

[KrisUpInSmoke]

I have to get a grinder and a stuffer, at least. I was looking at grinder attachments for my Kitchenaid mixer. I'll need a curing fridge I think, but maybe not for kielbasy. Then I suppose I'm going to want a vacuum sealer and a deep freezer. And of course, I'd want to make bacon and lunch meat while I'm at it, so I'll need a slicer...lol.

But, it looks like I can make that recipe you gave me with only a grinder and a stuffer! That looks like it would be a good place to start. Thank you.

 

[Polka]

I have to get a grinder and a stuffer, at least. I was looking at grinder attachments for my Kitchenaid mixer. I'll need a curing fridge I think, but maybe not for kielbasy. Then I suppose I'm going to want a vacuum sealer and a deep freezer. And of course, I'd want to make bacon and lunch meat while I'm at it, so I'll need a slicer...lol.

But, it looks like I can make that recipe you gave me with only a grinder and a stuffer! That looks like it would be a good place to start. Thank you.

Yes, only a grinder, and stuffer. As I'm sure you have noticed, KitchenAide type mixers for grinding are okay. But, not good for stuffing at all.

Kielbasa is either fresh or smoked. If you are doing 5 pound batches, unless you are married to my wife, you probably won't need a curing fridge. Some guys just make room in their reg fridge, or beer fridge. Hurry and do all those things before you wife finds out!

Hint: If you make things she likes, too, then she'll let you do those things, after she knows you can do them to her satisfaction!!

Good Luck.

Take care
Rex

 

[Polka]

Kris,
Here is the Czech Klobasa recipe that you might try after you perfect your Kielbasa to your liking! This is usually a fresh sausage, but easily can be cured and smoked, just like the Kielbasa.

WILBER, NEBRASKA -- CZECH COOKBOOK, 1963
KLOBASA – WINE SAUSAGE aka Cream Sausage

10 lbs MEAT (usually fatty pork shoulder)
-- some grind coarse, others very fine; according to the chef.

Enough Cubed WHITE BREAD to sop up the 2 cups Sweet Cream.

4 TBSP SALT
4 TSP White PEPPER
2 TSP GARLIC
2 TSP MACE
2 TSP MARJORAM
4 TBSP LEMON ZEST
(or 2 TSP Lemon extract)

1 CUP COLD WHITE WINE

Soak bread in cream.
Add Meat, herbs, and spices. Mix very well.
Add wine, and mix another 2 to 5 minutes.

Stuff in your favorite casing, usually about 32 to 35 mm size.
To cook: simmer like brats, and brown in skillet or on grill.

If you are going to smoke this, add 1 TSP cure #1 per 5 pounds of meat. Then smoke cook them, and cold water bath, bloom, and store. Or, you can cold smoke them.

Spanem Bohem
Rex W. Ulmer
aka POLKA
_________________
May all your projects taste great!

 

[tallbm]

Howdy All
Have been researching Czech Klobasy recipes, and doing sorta okay. But, I decided to see how the European Czechs are making sausage nowadays, and was using google translator.

In several instances, they are using "salt pork," "salt beef," and they are smoked at the end.

Should I assume since they are smoking it at the end, it is salted, and cured? (Then ground, and spiced, mixed, stuffed), and then smoked?? Their directions are often scant. Searching old Czech/American communities, churchs, etc, cookbooks, and their recipes are often scant too. So, there is alot of wiggle room in trying one of these out. But I would think to work with common sausage making practices like we all use / share here on this forum.

Here are two:

Hanacky Klobasy
Spices per kg salted meat: pepper 3 g, cumin crushed 2 g, garlic Třený 1 g, sweet paprika 1 g, water .5l, stuff hog casings; smoked

Paprika Klobasy
Spices per kg salt meat:
pepper 2 g
hot paprika 5 g
sweet paprika 4 g
cumin ground 2 g
garlic Třený 4 g
water .5l
stuff hog casings, smoked

Do you think my conclusions are correct??
Thanks, Rex

Jak se mas Polka!

I have been wanting to make a good Czech Klobasy forever now. It seems people are very tight lipped about those recipes. The best Czech Klobasy to me was the country style Klobasy made by Stanely Liska in the town of Ennis, TX.
To me it beat all of the other Czech Klobasy out there hands down.

The Liska meat market has closed down a long time ago and every year it is tougher and tougher to get good Klobasy like that.

I've tried to make the sausage a few times but was very disappointed. The recipes were just plain off, incomplete, or plain wrong. I was given a hint one time that to make a similar sausage to the one I love, that I should use plenty of garlic and make sure that caraway is used. Not much to go on but it gives an idea lol.

I have about 30 pounds of pure ground venison to use up and I imagined I would turn some of it into a small batch of Czech Klobasy.

I'll private message you a link to the recipe I found that I want to try. I'll be on this thread sharing what I can when ever I can get to doing some testing :)

 

[Polka]

In using that venison, just make sure you add some fat -- no less than 25% of the total meat weight. 30 would be better. Brisket scraps is what I use. Works like a charm.

That comes out to 1 LB of fat to 4 lbs of meat -- minimum. 1 1/4 to 3 3/4 would be better if you are able and willing.

R

 

[KrisUpInSmoke]

Kris,
Here is the Czech Klobasa recipe that you might try after you perfect your Kielbasa to your liking! This is usually a fresh sausage, but easily can be cured and smoked, just like the Kielbasa.

WILBER, NEBRASKA -- CZECH COOKBOOK, 1963
KLOBASA – WINE SAUSAGE aka Cream Sausage

10 lbs MEAT (usually fatty pork shoulder)
-- some grind coarse, others very fine; according to the chef.

Enough Cubed WHITE BREAD to sop up the 2 cups Sweet Cream.

4 TBSP SALT
4 TSP White PEPPER
2 TSP GARLIC
2 TSP MACE
2 TSP MARJORAM
4 TBSP LEMON ZEST
(or 2 TSP Lemon extract)

1 CUP COLD WHITE WINE

Soak bread in cream.
Add Meat, herbs, and spices. Mix very well.
Add wine, and mix another 2 to 5 minutes.

Stuff in your favorite casing, usually about 32 to 35 mm size.
To cook: simmer like brats, and brown in skillet or on grill.

If you are going to smoke this, add 1 TSP cure #1 per 5 pounds of meat. Then smoke cook them, and cold water bath, bloom, and store. Or, you can cold smoke them.

Spanem Bohem
Rex W. Ulmer
aka POLKA
_________________
May all your projects taste great!

Thank you again. I'm interested in trying it. I'm a bit concerned about the mace flavor though. I've used mace in cookies and I strongly dislike it...:rolleyes:... Does this recipe have a strong mace flavor?

I recently bought Slovenian sausage that was smoked and taste very much like polish kielbasy. It was fantastic.

I also found a Polish food website which Google translated for me! It might be a great source for some recipes.
Here's one for "homemade sausage, white or smoked,"
https://m.smaker.pl/przepis-domowa-kielbasa-biala-lub-wedzona,101100,wiech-k.html

Here are a couple screenshots, translated into English. Pretty interesting!

 

[Polka]

Hey Kris
some nifty sites you found, I haven't seen them until now. Must be a bit new.

Regarding mace. My recipe is based on those Czechs of western Bohemia where there is a decidedly Barvarian German influence crossing over. My recipe that I posted is to some folks a coarse ground bratwurst. Mace / nutmeg is traditional in either. You can use only half the amount, or leave it out entirely, but I would make a small batch with it in first just to make sure.

r

 

[tallbm]

In using that venison, just make sure you add some fat -- no less than 25% of the total meat weight. 30 would be better. Brisket scraps is what I use. Works like a charm.

That comes out to 1 LB of fat to 4 lbs of meat -- minimum. 1 1/4 to 3 3/4 would be better if you are able and willing.

R

I buy about 20 pounds of pork back fat each year and I have about 5 pounds of brisket fat waiting for this kind of stuff :)
Each year I do a big hunt and bring back 5-7 animals (deer and hogs) and I make sausage with the fat. I generally do 80% meat and 20% fat and have been making awesome sausage and such. The math is super easy too at 80/20.

I have about 5-6 pounds of the pork fat vac sealed and frozen, left over from last years processing. I would be putting that to use. I have used the beef fat for my Venison ground Pastrami lunch meat. I make loaves, smoke them, and then slice them for sandwiches. The beef fat gives me the beefy flavor I'm looking for with the pastrami.

I've been so swamped lately I can't even smoke meat much less process and make sausage hahaha.

I'll report back if/when I get time to make a move on it but I also have the UMAI salami on the list and a 9 pound pork butt waiting in the freezer for that. I think sometimes that I may never get to any of it hahaha :D