Pastrami - what went wrong? Too Much Salt!

[waterdogscbr]

A couple of weeks ago I did a corned beef. Came out very good. This is the brine I used:

I used a 3lb roast the recipe called for 3-5 lbs.

1/2 gallon of water
1 cup kosher salt
1/3 cup sugar
1/2 ounce instacure #1
1 tbsp cracked black pepper
1 tbsp coriander seeds
12 bay leaves
1 tbsp red pepper flakes
1 tbsp dried thyme
1 tsp caraway seeds
1 cinnamin stick
6 cloves
6 garlic cloves

I let this brine in the fridge for 3 days

So I wanted to do a pastrami and my beef was 9 lbs.
I doubled the brine recipe listed above. I let it brine for 6 days.
Smoking came out great with the help of our forum and everyone's advice. The problem was it was way too salty. Couldn't even eat.

I bumped to 1 gallon of water
Two cups of salt
1 ounce instacure.

Was it too much:
Salt?
Instacure?
Or brining time?

Thanks

 

[red dog]

I am sure others will chime in but I'm thinking that's like twice as much salt as you needed. Pop's brine only has 1 cup for a gallon of water. And he suggests a longer curing time. What type of roast was it?

 

[tropics]

Waterdog I use store bought Corned Beef for Pastrami, the key thing is to desalt it soak for a few hours in cold water, then you can do your rub and smoke. Never had a Pastrami I didn't like.

Happy New Year

 

[red dog]

Here is a link to Pop's brine.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine

 

[waterdogscbr]

Here is a link to Pop's brine.
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine

 

[waterdogscbr]

Red Dog: Wow - there is a ton of info on pop's site.
Definitely used way too much salt.
Thanks for the information.

 

[waterdogscbr]

Tropics - thanks for the help. Listen; I broke into that cheese I smoked on the 21st. I couldn't hold out as tonight is New Years eve and I had some venison kielbasa and crackers that were screaming for that smoked cheese. Came out great! Now to let smoke some more and get into the others as they age. Thanks.

 

[pops6927]

And, the lower the salt, once getting used to it, the less you need, too!  I've cut down my recipe to lo-salt brine too;

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops6927s-curing-brines-regular-and-lo-salt

 

[chilefarmer]

 Store bought corned beef is already brined. If you brined it again it was way to much salt.CF

 

[addertooth]

Did you remember to soak the corned beef in water for half a day before you smoked it?  Did you change the soaking water at least twice during that period?  Many people forget that step, and end up with Pastrami which is too salty. Even without a second brining, pastrami will turn out too salty if not soaked.

The fix/rescue is relatively simple.  Chances are the pastrami is in the fridge, and must be warmed up before serving.  Get a pot with a quarter inch of boiling water in it.  Place your slices of pastrami in the boiling water for two minutes to warm up, before placing them on your hot pastrami sandwich.  This warming method leaches out the worst of the salt.

 

[waterdogscbr]

 
And, the lower the salt, once getting used to it, the less you need, too!  I've cut down my recipe to lo-salt brine too;

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops6927s-curing-brines-regular-and-lo-salt

Your original brine I see you were using Sea Salt.  The lower sodium brine I see listed above you are using regular non iodized table salt.  I have seen kosher salts listed also.  This is all new to me; which do you prefer?  As far as the instacure is concerned do you find weighing it verses measuring it makes a difference?

Thanks

 

[waterdogscbr]

 
Did you remember to soak the corned beef in water for half a day before you smoked it?  Did you change the soaking water at least twice during that period?  Many people forget that step, and end up with Pastrami which is too salty. Even without a second brining, pastrami will turn out too salty if not soaked.

The fix/rescue is relatively simple.  Chances are the pastrami is in the fridge, and must be warmed up before serving.  Get a pot with a quarter inch of boiling water in it.  Place your slices of pastrami in the boiling water for two minutes to warm up, before placing them on your hot pastrami sandwich.  This warming method leaches out the worst of the salt.

Addertooth looking back at my notes I did forget to soak it.  Thanks for the catch.  When I did the roast I did soak it.  This time I forgot.  When I was cutting the pastrami I taste tested from the outside to the inside hoping that the middle would be less salty.  Looking at the brines I see listed from Pops it appears that I used way to much salt.  I maybe got lucky on the corned beef.  Putting the pastrami in boiling water is a great idea also. 

Thanks

 

[daveomak]

Waterdog, morning.....

When using a "Corned Beef" from the store.... already packaged and in a liquid...... Do Not Brine again... it is already salted and cured....

All you need to do is add the spices to the surface of the meat, that would make pastrami.... wrap in plastic for many days, and refer it..... then smoke it..... do not add more salt when adding the spices...

I like to toast the spices in a medium frying pan to bring out the natural oils, grind or crush them a bit to further release those flavors, then rub into the meat really well, then wrap tight and refer....

The only time you brine/cure etc. is when using raw beef.... some use brisket, some use bottom round, it's what's available and usually on sale..... When using a roast, I like to slice it with the grain to end up with a piece of meat 1 1/2" thick or so.... cures quicker... already final thickness for slicing for sandwiches... just works out better... spices don't have such a thick piece of meat to penetrate their flavor.....

Dave

 

[RCTScott]

Hello,

I recently had the same problem as Waterdogscbr (pastrami came out too salty) and I think I know why. This forum is incredible for someone like myself who is a complete novice. I am going to brine and smoke again, but was hoping to get some feedback before starting to brine again this weekend. I am trying to make a Jewish "Katz's Deli style" pastrami and was looking for some tips and definitely found several on Pops' brine thread that was posted above. My first time around I used the recipe out of Steven Raichlen's book "The Brisket Chronicles," which was close to Pops, but with some differences. This is what I used the first time around which resulted in it being too salty:

-1 gallon cold water
-1 cup Kosher salt
-1 tbsp Prage Powder #1
-6 Juniper Berries, lightly crushed
-2 tsp yellow mustard seeds
-1 tsp celery seeds
-8 cloves garlic, peeled and cut in half widthwise

He directs you to combine 2 quarts first of cold water with the salt, Prage Powder, juniper berries, mustard seeds, celery seeds and then bring to a boil. Then stir in the rest of the cold water and let cool to room temp. Then add the onion and garlic and put in bag and add the brisket.

We let it cure for 12 days, then smoked until temp came to 175. Then we steamed slowly to get the temp to 205.

End result, a bit too salty. Still edible, but not like Katz's. Our's was good but very salty.

I am open to suggestions. Here is what I know so far to modify:

1) Kosher salt is not Kosher salt. We used Morton's which evidently has smaller grain size than Diamond Crystal which is the equivalent of as much as three times smaller which means Mortons is three times more salty. So we are going to use Diamond and cut it down but would love some guidance as to how much.

2) Raichlen didn't say anything about the cold water soak after the brine so we are now going to listen to you guys and soak for a half a day, changing the water once, in clean plain water.

3) I think I am going to add the sugars into the brine solution that Pops talks about but was hoping for some feedback here as I am wondering if that might take it to a different flavor than a Jewish pastrami.

4) I am going to inject the brine solution too as the first one was less red on the interior than I expected. The flavor was there possibly because it was just too salty, so definitely will inject as a 12lb brisket is over 3" thick.

5) Is bringing part of the brine solution to a boil a bad idea? In Pops brine solution recipe, someone mentions that boiling the brine will degrade it, so that person recommended against boiling it.

6) Definitely going to let the brisket dry off before adding the rub.

Any other suggestions? Thank you so much everybody, my taste buds are deeply indebted to you

Scott

 

[daveomak]

Scott, Morning.... Weigh the hunk of meat... Weigh out water 1/2 the weight of the meat... add 2% salt, 1-2% sugar, 0.25% cure#1, and add any kind and amount of spices you like to the water.... Let sit in the brine/cure, in the refer at 38F for 7 days per inch of thickness.. or longer.... rinse lightly, dry and add final spices... I use coriander 2:1 black pepper... + some allspice.. then smoke...