Jeff's St. Patty's Day Corned Beef recipe didn't work for me.

[ChasP]

Used his recipe here and found that the rub/horseradish/mustard/BBQ sauce was over the top distracting from the wonderful corned beef flavor. Also, smoking at 225 as directed, open, and then braising sealed did not result in a tender result, despite internal finished temp of 205F. This was a high quality Sam's Club Makers brisket. After scraping off all the rub/sauce and putting sealed in the oven at 300F for another 2 hours, it was finally tender and juicy.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Used his recipe here and found that the rub/horseradish/mustard/BBQ sauce was over the top distracting from the wonderful corned beef flavor. Also, smoking at 225 as directed, open, and then braising sealed did not result in a tender result, despite internal finished temp of 205F. This was a high quality Sam's Club Makers brisket. After scraping off all the rub/sauce and putting sealed in the oven at 300F for another 2 hours, it was finally tender and juicy.

Too bad you didn’t like the rub combination which is always subjective, but the tender part is all on you, no offense, but temp suggestions for IT are just that, a guide. Fact is you can cook 10 briskets all of them to 205 IT and some will be perfect, some over done and still others underdone. Always, Always probe for tender and never blindly cook to IT only. That’s a pit lesson right there.

Btw, probe tender means to probe the meat with something like a skewer or meat thermometer all over and it’s done when the probe goes in like pushing the probe into a jar of peanut butter, no resistance, then it’s done regardless of IT.

 

[ChasP]

Too bad you didn’t like the rub combination which is always subjective, but the tender part is all on you, no offense, but temp suggestions for IT are just that, a guide. Fact is you can cook 10 briskets all of them to 205 IT and some will be perfect, some over done and still others underdone. Always, Always probe for tender and never blindly cook to IT only. That’s a pit lesson right there.

Btw, probe tender means to probe the meat with something like a skewer or meat thermometer all over and it’s done when the probe goes in like pushing the probe into a jar of peanut butter, no resistance, then it’s done regardless of IT.

Well I read the comments on his recipe page and two others had the same issue. Jeff’s comments to Brenna is that he never heard of it not being tender if an IT of 200F. His recipe said to stop cooking at 195F

While what you said makes sense, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that it needed two whole more hours at 300F before it was tender.

IMHO, Jeff should add information in that recipe to address what appears to be a not uncommon issue. Especially because people like me who are inexperienced rely closely on recipe guidelines. Nothing was said for example about testing for probe tenderness and an additional 2-3 hours of cooking may be needed.

Also, his other recipe was an amazing success as I posted about here: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/jeffs-amazingly-tender-brisket-raging-success.324957/

 

[gmc2003]

After scraping off all the rub/sauce and putting sealed in the oven

Might I suggest for your next attempt. Taste the rub/slather first before applying. If you don't like it before it's cooked chances are your not going to like it after it's been cooked. Sorry it didn't work out.

Chris

 

[ChasP]

Might I suggest for your next attempt. Taste the rub/slather first before applying. If you don't like it before it's cooked chances are your not going to like it after it's been cooked. Sorry it didn't work out.

Chris

Good advice

 

[SmokinEdge]

Well I read the comments on his recipe page and two others had the same issue. Jeff’s comments to Brenna is that he never heard of it not being tender if an IT of 200F. His recipe said to stop cooking at 195F

While what you said makes sense, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that it needed two whole more hours at 300F before it was tender.

IMHO, Jeff should add information in that recipe to address what appears to be a not uncommon issue. Especially because people like me who are inexperienced rely closely on recipe guidelines. Nothing was said for example about testing for probe tenderness and an additional 2-3 hours of cooking may be needed.

Also, his other recipe was an amazing success as I posted about here: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/jeffs-amazingly-tender-brisket-raging-success.324957/

I understand all of that. But that said their are a bunch of meat grades and general meat qualities. If you have a butcher, for example, that you are comfortable with that always has a consistent meat product, then yes, if the meat generally finishes at some magic therm number of 205F, then you can be confident in that. However, if you are shopping everything from big box store to local, you have a large difference in the meats, not only grades but general quality. It’s all fine, but Always, Always probe the meat for tender, never cook any meats to time or temperature alone, always probe for final doneness with bbq like brisket or pulled pork, prime rib and steak for example are a different story because you want rare, medium etc…. And temp alone controls that level of doneness, but with traditional bbq meats not so much at all, unless you have a meat supplier with meat of even quality. Otherwise run your pit and probe that meat for the finish.

Brisket, for example, can probe tender anywhere from 195-210. It’s a range, not a set value.

 

[ChasP]

I understand all of that. But that said their are a bunch of meat grades and general meat qualities. If you have a butcher, for example, that you are comfortable with that always has a consistent meat product, then yes, if the meat generally finishes at some magic therm number of 205F, then you can be confident in that. However, if you are shopping everything from big box store to local, you have a large difference in the meats, not only grades but general quality. It’s all fine, but Always, Always probe the meat for tender, never cook any meats to time or temperature alone, always probe for final doneness with bbq like brisket or pulled pork, prime rib and steak for example are a different story because you want rare, medium etc…. And temp alone controls that level of doneness, but with traditional bbq meats not so much at all, unless you have a meat supplier with meat of even quality. Otherwise run your pit and probe that meat for the finish.

Brisket, for example, can probe tender anywhere from 195-210. It’s a range, not a set value.

Well thanks to your advice, I know now to test for probe tenderness with all briskets, butts, chickens, etc besides relying on internal temp. I know that’s an obvious thing to do based on your experience. For newbies like me, especially after a great success with Jeff’s injected brisket I can see not to rely on a recipe and internal temps alone.

 

[gmc2003]

I know now to test for probe tenderness with all briskets, butts, chickens, etc besides relying on internal temp.

Poultry and fish are done by temps. So are leaner cuts like tenderloins and steaks

Chris

 

[DougE]

For newbies like me, especially after a great success with Jeff’s injected brisket I can see not to rely on a recipe and internal temps alone.

Internal temp is but a guide to when you should start checking for probe tenderness, nothing more.

 

[tpc74]

USDA says corned beef is done when it its 145 after a 3 minute rest. My wife did ours until her carrots and potatoes were done, and the corned beef was 165. It was fine, but it should have went longer imo. I was not the chef that day. It was still pretty tender but not fork cuttable.

 

[smoke freak]

Collagen breakdown begins around 170 but the determining factor is how long it takes to get there. Therefore, even when boiling, a long slow climb to the finish temp is what determines the tenderness and juiciness of the finished product. So 205 might be a target temp but it may need to ride at that temp for a while to be tender. That's where probing comes in. Trust me, I learned the hard way.

 

[tpc74]

I should correct myself. USDA says corned beef is "safe" not "done" at 145. There is a big difference between the two lol.

 

[ChasP]

The thing that’s still weird for me is cooking 3hrs on grate then 3 more covered still at 225F wasn’t remotely tender despite IT of 205F (Jeff said done at 195F IT in recipe), but then requiring still 2 more hours at 300F covered in oven was shocking before being tender.

I checked it in oven about every 30 mins in oven to determine when tender. The final result was the best corned beef I have ever had which is all that matters, and I shredded half to use making Reuben sandwiches—also exquisite.

In retrospect, I don’t think I would season with anything but a scant salt & pepper since the unique flavor of corned beef stands on its own.

 

[schlotz]

Another thing to be aware of is to know what your true grate temps are when smoking. Never rely on a built-in thermometer they are notorious for being in accurate. If you haven't already, invest in a good calibrated thermometer with at least two probes one of which is for the grate. There are plenty out there, I use one from Thermoworks.

 

[Hijack73]

I'm going to tell it to you straight partner, with no malice. A piece of meat you are slow cooking is done when it is done. Most of my briskets are what I consider to be done at around 193-195. For most people, that would still be a bit chewy I think. That being said, I've had more than one that I've had to cook and cook and cook until I thought I was slap going to have to give up on. I'm talking 210+

That's a full 15 degrees over what I "normally" consider done. I'm not going to blame what I read on the internet (and I see 200-203 as this magical God given temperature over and over) for the characteristics of one particular cut of meat I cook.

As far as the rub. I've never used a horseradish but no matter how thick I lay on a layer of plain old yellow mustard (on butt or on pastrami), very little mustard comes though in the finished product, and usually none comes through unless I slop it on a pastrami extra thick.

It's done when it's done. Applies to brisket, butt, ribs, chucks, pastrami, anything you are cooking to render collagen for tenderness.

For pastrami, I'm a simple man. I rub with mustard and dose it liberally with black pepper - then I smoke it. I omit coriander in the rub, but I add extra coriander to my brine. It's just how I like it.

 

[ChasP]

Another thing to be aware of is to know what your true grate temps are when smoking. Never rely on a built-in thermometer they are notorious for being in accurate. If you haven't already, invest in a good calibrated thermometer with at least two probes one of which is for the grate. There are plenty out there, I use one from Thermoworks.

I agree and bought this ThermoWorks probe which reads cooker temp in addition to food probe. https://www.thermoworks.com/smoke/

 

[ChasP]

I'm going to tell it to you straight partner, with no malice. A piece of meat you are slow cooking is done when it is done. Most of my briskets are what I consider to be done at around 193-195. For most people, that would still be a bit chewy I think. That being said, I've had more than one that I've had to cook and cook and cook until I thought I was slap going to have to give up on. I'm talking 210+

That's a full 15 degrees over what I "normally" consider done. I'm not going to blame what I read on the internet (and I see 200-203 as this magical God given temperature over and over) for the characteristics of one particular cut of meat I cook.

As far as the rub. I've never used a horseradish but no matter how thick I lay on a layer of plain old yellow mustard (on butt or on pastrami), very little mustard comes though in the finished product, and usually none comes through unless I slop it on a pastrami extra thick.

It's done when it's done. Applies to brisket, butt, ribs, chucks, pastrami, anything you are cooking to render collagen for tenderness.

For pastrami, I'm a simple man. I rub with mustard and dose it liberally with black pepper - then I smoke it. I omit coriander in the rub, but I add extra coriander to my brine. It's just how I like it.

As always, I appreciate the advice…but for newbies like me who rely on Jeff’s recipe, it would have been great for him to make this practical tenderness probe guideline known beyond the IT of 195F which was all he stated in his recipe. That’s what made me start this thread.

 

[TNJAKE]

As always, I appreciate the advice…but for newbies like me who rely on Jeff’s recipe, it would have been great for him to make this practical tenderness probe guideline known beyond the IT of 195F which was all he stated in his recipe. That’s what made me start this thread.

Those bbq celebrities make money from clicks and likes. They also have to simplify the details to fit in a newsletter. They have decent enough advice but they aren’t really looking out for your best interests as a home cook. The good news though is that the misdirection you received led you here. This forum is full of real experts with real time advice that is tested and true. If you follow said advice and don’t get hung up on what Jeff said or didn’t say you will be a pro in no time. This hobby is about patience, trial and error. My best advice on your situation is to never plan a cook based on a set time. Even if you know what you are doing and consider yourself a pro, you are gonna be disappointed in cooking to a set time. Ask questions, learn and you will be cranking out the best food you ever ate in no time. Heck there are even people here to answer questions in real time as you are cooking so you are never on your own

 

[DougE]

Those bbq celebrities make money from clicks and likes. They also have to simplify the details to fit in a newsletter. They have decent enough advice but they aren’t really looking out for your best interests as a home cook. The good news though is that the misdirection you received led you here. This forum is full of real experts with real time advice that is tested and true. If you follow said advice and don’t get hung up on what Jeff said or didn’t say you will be a pro in no time. This hobby is about patience, trial and error. My best advice on your situation is to never plan a cook based on a set time. Even if you know what you are doing and consider yourself a pro, you are gonna be disappointed in cooking to a set time. Ask questions, learn and you will be cranking out the best food you ever ate in no time. Heck there are even people here to answer questions in real time as you are cooking so you are never on your own

A simple like doesn't do this post justice. This is wisdom spoken from experience.

 

[ChasP]

Those bbq celebrities make money from clicks and likes. They also have to simplify the details to fit in a newsletter. They have decent enough advice but they aren’t really looking out for your best interests as a home cook. The good news though is that the misdirection you received led you here. This forum is full of real experts with real time advice that is tested and true. If you follow said advice and don’t get hung up on what Jeff said or didn’t say you will be a pro in no time. This hobby is about patience, trial and error. My best advice on your situation is to never plan a cook based on a set time. Even if you know what you are doing and consider yourself a pro, you are gonna be disappointed in cooking to a set time. Ask questions, learn and you will be cranking out the best food you ever ate in no time. Heck there are even people here to answer questions in real time as you are cooking so you are never on your own

Such wonderful and helpful advice. Thank you! Everyone here has been really great.

I’m wondering if the best way to cook the other corned beef brisket might be in a Dutch oven in the oven?