Couple questions on my smoking process in regards to turkey

[iowahurler]

Ok i have been smoking various meats and cheeses for a few years now and have one question that i can't seem to get answered.

First off i will explain my entire process for getting the turkey from freezer to table

First thing I do is thaw out the turkey then put all the meats into my brine solution.  Brine solution consists of 1 cup salt and a 2lb bag of C&H brand dark brown sugar for each gallon of water.  All the meat and brine solution then go into a cooler which will be in the trunk of my car so i don't have to stir the mix during the week it spends in the cooler.  Don't worry about temp guys I only do this in the winter time in Iowa so the meat is not going to spoil.  

After a week in the brine I then get it into the smoker.  From what I can tell it is a cold smoke as the entire point in the smoke is to NOT cook the meat.  I do this for a couple reasons.  That is the way my father has always done it, I personally think it is a touch more mellow and sweeter smoke flavor, and last it makes it easier to smoke cheeses since I don't have to change anything.  And by cold smoke I mean the majority of the time the temp in the smoker is well under 100 degrees F.  First time last season I ran some ham and cheese through my smoker it took 2 and a half hours for the temp to get up to 75F.  Now being charcoal I am constantly out checking on the charcoal and wood/smoke about every 15 minutes.  As far as times in the smoker i usually leave most cheese in about 2 hours, salmon about 6, chicken 8, pork loin and hams 10 hours, and turkeys about 18 hours.  Now I do realize that with these temps the meat still needs to cook to come up to temp so after the time in the smoker it comes inside to the oven to bring the internal temp up.  I do gage this with a meat temp probe.  

Now this is where my question comes in.  The last few times I have done a turkey the inside deep part of the breast (I believe called the tender) comes out complete mush.  To the point of 0 texture at all.  Liver that I smoke for my dad and brother is firmer and more texture than the inside of the breast.  Am I doing something fundamentally wrong or could this just be chalked up to freezer burn from the inside of the cavity of the bird?  Everything else on the bird is absolutely wonderful.  Last time I smoked 2 14 lb turkeys for a football game for 3 friends and I all that was left was one breast and one leg.  Just trying to figure this one out.  Any help will be greatly appreciated

Chris

 

[joed617]

Hi Chris,

            I think you are doing right. I read it all... I have a a question or two ... things to think about.. Do the tenders in all your turkeys turn to mush? If so, I would reduce the time in the brine by 5 days or so .. I think a few days in the brine would work well, I believe that was 2 questions .. :)  and it's the only solution I can think of.. maybe somebody else has an idea or thought?  I'm of the type that I'm better off knowing nothing, than knowing everything. 

Joe

 

[joed617]

Opps .. forgot to suggest the reasoning behind my thought!  The turkey muscle is breaking down and seeing "tenders" are the   most tender part of the bird I would think would be the first to breakdown.

Joe

 

[diggingdogfarm]

No cure???

:icon_eek:

Now this is where my question comes in.  The last few times I have done a turkey the inside deep part of the breast (I believe called the tender) comes out complete mush.  To the point of 0 texture at all.  

You're brining it too long, that'll lead to mushy poultry.


~Martin

 

[iowahurler]

Thanks a lot for all the info guys. It was kind of bugging me. However the odd part is that the turkeys that my dad smokes do not turn out this way to my knowledge and is the exact same process. Could another factor be in how the turkeys are raised in the respect that the tender never really develops? Also my chickens don't turn out this way either with the same process. And all my turkeys have not turned out this way only the last 2 years or so.

Chris

 

[iowahurler]

Just thought of one more variable that might have some bearing on this.  My dad has a water softener and i don't.  Has anyone here noticed that affecting anything?

Chris

 

[diggingdogfarm]

If you're cold smoking and keeping raw meat in the danger zone without cure, you're doing something that's potentially very dangerous!!!!

I know that there are many folks around the world who ignore the cardinal rule of meat curing and smoking at low temperatures, that being …..”If it can’t be cured (with nitrate/nitrite), don’t smoke it.”

When smoking at less than 160-180 degrees F (some say more), cure should always be used!

Please be aware of the risks.

Clostridium botulinum bacteria need moisture, warm temperatures and the absence of oxygen to thrive. Those conditions are prevalent in a smoker when cold or warm smoking, where incoming air is kept at a minimum in order for the wood to smolder.

Botulism is a rare, but serious, often deadly, illness caused by Clostridium botulinum bacteria.

Nitrate and nitrite, are the ONLY reliable botulism preventatives!

Clostridium botulinum bacterium is present nearly everywhere that isn’t sterile or well sanitized, and while there may be more danger in smoking something like sausages without proper care and cure, the danger is still present with whole muscle meats.
People smoke in numerous ways in numerous containers at numerous smoke and oxygen levels, it’s impossible to accurately know if there’s enough oxygen to stay safe.

While the risk of deadly botulism may be small, the danger is great.

It’s akin to driving without a seat belt, you may get away with it for 30 years or tomorrow you may meet tragedy.

It’s not worth the gamble considering the small cost of a tiny bit of nitrite/nitrate.

~Martin

 

[iowahurler]

I do appreciate the warnings and info Martin but I was under the impression that I was being safe because after the time in the smoker the meat then goes in the oven somewhere in the 400F range to bring the temp up and kill said bacteria.

Chris

 

[chef jimmyj]

Check out this info on how brine works. The author is really conservative on Brine Times. Most Chef's and Food Scientists feel the recommended time is to Brine Poultry 12-24 hours, Pork and Beef are more dense so they take Days rather than hours. Most of your average store bought Turkeys are already " Enhanced " aka Injected with a Brine from the factory. Add another week in a rather strong Brine Salt wise and a BUTT load of Sugar, I like 1/2C Kosher Salt per Gallon, no sugar, and it is reasonable for the meat to get Mushy. Chickens are not enhanced and I am sure your Dad's birds were great because years ago the Turkeys were all natural, so a long brine time was no problem. Cold Smoking any meat without using a Cure is not a good idea and not recommended by the USDA or the members of this forum. Your Strong Brine and fully cooking later has covered you to this point but you are fortunate to have not run in to any Toxin producing Bacteria. These types of Bacteria are killed at IT's of 140-160*F but most Toxins are not destroyed by Internal Temps under 200*F. In your Dad's time bacteria levels were different. There were fewer types commonly found in factory processed poultry and contamination was not as wide spread. In Grandpa's day you could eat his Turkey Raw as the he raised a Healthy bird, Cleaned by hand and avoided contact with any part of the digestive tract, so no possibility of Bacterial contamination. You may do as you wish but please be careful about thorough cooking in the oven and not to state the obvious but make sure no poultry juices contact your Cheese...JJ

http://www.edinformatics.com/math_science/science_of_cooking/brining.htm