Really?? Just what is "whole purpose of using cast iron " ????
Have a great day!!
Craig
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Would this be a good starter Dutch Oven set?
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Have a great day!!
Craig
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
X2.
It can scratch off your season, and cause uneven browning and heating, plus I have some bad memories of foil flakes getting served in my food.
Ever take a bite of really nice cobbler?
Ever chew on aluminum foil?
They don't mix that well *shudders*
I also must agree with the Lodge movement, they're high-quality, and evenly cast, Camp Chef is a close second. Never had any trouble with my Lodge DO's, but buying a no-name, possibly China-made Dutch Oven is a way to invite disappointment.
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
The whole purpose is that amazing sear yielded by thick, metal that distributes heat across a well-seasoned, high-carbon surface that prevents serious sticking.
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Amazing sear??
Not when you are baking..
I have cooked hundreds of meals outdoors in dutch ovens.
Lining with foil is a good thing with some recipes.
It also makes sense when you are in the woods with small amounts of water and cleaning stuff.
When I saw this in your re-seasoning post I lost interest. <<<Step one was to fill both chimneys to overflow with briquettes, soak 'em down, and light 'em up. >>>>
Yawn...
Craig
Not when you are baking..
I have cooked hundreds of meals outdoors in dutch ovens.
Lining with foil is a good thing with some recipes.
It also makes sense when you are in the woods with small amounts of water and cleaning stuff.
When I saw this in your re-seasoning post I lost interest. <<<Step one was to fill both chimneys to overflow with briquettes, soak 'em down, and light 'em up. >>>>
Yawn...
Craig
I have all Lodge pots now, my only Camp Chef was stolen but it was very well made. I didn't like the Camp Chef lid as well as the deeper lipped Lid of the Lodge, it was rounded and the briquettes could roll of it too easily so when it got stolen I replaced it with a Lodge.
I think for a starter one should get a 12 inch pot. Get the one with the three legs if your planning on using it outdoors otherwise get a flat bottomed one for use in the oven or stovetop. I have never found an DO at a yard sale or at an auction ( and believe me I have looked ) except once but the auctioneer put an incredibly stupidly high reserve on it saying it was Priceless. Heck it was just an ordinary 12 inch Lodge and not really old at all. He wanted to start the bidding at $90.00 for a pot that retailed for $69.00
I use parchment paper for cobblers and desserts with lots of sugar in them , it makes it easier to scoop out the goodies and you get less burning on the bottom.
I think for a starter one should get a 12 inch pot. Get the one with the three legs if your planning on using it outdoors otherwise get a flat bottomed one for use in the oven or stovetop. I have never found an DO at a yard sale or at an auction ( and believe me I have looked ) except once but the auctioneer put an incredibly stupidly high reserve on it saying it was Priceless. Heck it was just an ordinary 12 inch Lodge and not really old at all. He wanted to start the bidding at $90.00 for a pot that retailed for $69.00
I use parchment paper for cobblers and desserts with lots of sugar in them , it makes it easier to scoop out the goodies and you get less burning on the bottom.
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
Why take the offensive? The intent was friendly banter, and comprehensive discussion, man, cool your jets.
Yes, "sear" isn't always the correct term, I concede to that but then again, DO's don't get used exclusively for baking, therefore how about caramelization then, or Maillard Reaction, or "Golden Brown and Delicious" in simplest terms?
It is my personal belief, achieved through "hundreds of meals outdoors in dutch ovens" as well, that foil is not the patron saint it is often elevated to, and here is why:
1. Noobs use it as a crutch. I see this time and again: first-timer lines their DO up with foil figuring that cleanup will be a snap, except that foil will sill leak due to seams, creases, wear, and acidic foods, and they end up burning sugars/proteins from foods into the bare cast iron, get frustrated, and quit.
2. Foil is scratchy. Foil will wear a good sear down in a matter of uses, as well as leave traces of itself behind. This will accelerate damage caused by leaks onto improperly seasoned cast iron. see point #1 for where that story goes.
3. Foil will alter the surface temperatures. It's reflective on one side, and will deflect a percentage of heat unevenly across the cooking surface, not to mention the trapped air between foil and DO will act as a heat sink.
4. Electrolysis. The same reason I would never own a Land Rover (besides the severe unreliability and Lucas electronics) is because iron and aluminum get along a little too well in the presence of saline or acidic products, effectively creating a battery. It will do little damage to the iron, but the foil will rot into the food, producing off tastes and colorations. (IE: "why are my braised short ribs grey and tasting like a birfield?")
5. Crust-robbing properties. The coagulating proteins and caramelizing sugars in much of cooking like to stick to something; a seasoned DO will offer an outer layer of grease and carbon that they cannot find purchase on. Instead of permitting this, the foil would simply collect that proto-crust and entrap it, so the dismount from the DO will be clean, but when one takes away the foil, there goes the golden brown tastiness.
I have never seen a single dish "need" foiling in any way, because My personal DO's and the ones I learned with were well seasoned, properly greased prior to use, and cleaned immediately while the metal was hot.
Bottom line, though, is that the use of a DO is an art, and everybody has their own unique approach to this art; but it would seem most advisable to advocate the proper, traditional, use of cast iron to the casual newcomer so they will never have a worst-case scenario Dutch Oven to deal with.
Speaking of worst-case scenario DO, why the personal attack on my project? I didn't cull through the histories of this forum to malign your own phraseology did I? What about it was yawn inducing, as simply stating such offers no constructive feedback?
Yes, "sear" isn't always the correct term, I concede to that but then again, DO's don't get used exclusively for baking, therefore how about caramelization then, or Maillard Reaction, or "Golden Brown and Delicious" in simplest terms?
It is my personal belief, achieved through "hundreds of meals outdoors in dutch ovens" as well, that foil is not the patron saint it is often elevated to, and here is why:
1. Noobs use it as a crutch. I see this time and again: first-timer lines their DO up with foil figuring that cleanup will be a snap, except that foil will sill leak due to seams, creases, wear, and acidic foods, and they end up burning sugars/proteins from foods into the bare cast iron, get frustrated, and quit.
2. Foil is scratchy. Foil will wear a good sear down in a matter of uses, as well as leave traces of itself behind. This will accelerate damage caused by leaks onto improperly seasoned cast iron. see point #1 for where that story goes.
3. Foil will alter the surface temperatures. It's reflective on one side, and will deflect a percentage of heat unevenly across the cooking surface, not to mention the trapped air between foil and DO will act as a heat sink.
4. Electrolysis. The same reason I would never own a Land Rover (besides the severe unreliability and Lucas electronics) is because iron and aluminum get along a little too well in the presence of saline or acidic products, effectively creating a battery. It will do little damage to the iron, but the foil will rot into the food, producing off tastes and colorations. (IE: "why are my braised short ribs grey and tasting like a birfield?")
5. Crust-robbing properties. The coagulating proteins and caramelizing sugars in much of cooking like to stick to something; a seasoned DO will offer an outer layer of grease and carbon that they cannot find purchase on. Instead of permitting this, the foil would simply collect that proto-crust and entrap it, so the dismount from the DO will be clean, but when one takes away the foil, there goes the golden brown tastiness.
I have never seen a single dish "need" foiling in any way, because My personal DO's and the ones I learned with were well seasoned, properly greased prior to use, and cleaned immediately while the metal was hot.
Bottom line, though, is that the use of a DO is an art, and everybody has their own unique approach to this art; but it would seem most advisable to advocate the proper, traditional, use of cast iron to the casual newcomer so they will never have a worst-case scenario Dutch Oven to deal with.
Speaking of worst-case scenario DO, why the personal attack on my project? I didn't cull through the histories of this forum to malign your own phraseology did I? What about it was yawn inducing, as simply stating such offers no constructive feedback?
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
I love the quality of Lodge products, but the Camp Chef ones were nice. A close friend of mine has their Lewis and Clark Edition one, and it's pretty cool, I think the best thing about CC DO's are the stand legs built into the lid so you don't have to own a lid-stand, but I agree that the un-domed lid is a bit frustrating.
I also agree that the 12 is the best starting place because it fits the formulaic standards so well, 14's get a bit tricky for heat management, and 10's just don't have the capacity I find necessary. One of each is optimum for the budding fanatic, though.
Parchment paper is also helpful, especially with delicate things, like cakes. Reminds me of baking sourdough-chocolate-raspberry cake while snow camping with my Scout Troop. Best dessert I ever had at -10.
I also agree that the 12 is the best starting place because it fits the formulaic standards so well, 14's get a bit tricky for heat management, and 10's just don't have the capacity I find necessary. One of each is optimum for the budding fanatic, though.
Parchment paper is also helpful, especially with delicate things, like cakes. Reminds me of baking sourdough-chocolate-raspberry cake while snow camping with my Scout Troop. Best dessert I ever had at -10.
Foil has it's place.. I dont really care if you agree or not.
I have years of DO cooking experience and have never had a complaint and I have won a few DO cookoffs.
Anyone that uses lighter fluid to start a chimney of coals just doesn't get "the whole purpose of chimneys"..
This is a nice place so I am done fencing with you..
Have a great day!!
Craig
I have years of DO cooking experience and have never had a complaint and I have won a few DO cookoffs.
Anyone that uses lighter fluid to start a chimney of coals just doesn't get "the whole purpose of chimneys"..
This is a nice place so I am done fencing with you..
Have a great day!!
Craig
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
Ah, understood.
I don't actually use lighter fluid at all. That was a jug of it the PO of my Weber threw in to sweeten the deal, I honestly had no use for it in grilling or smoking, because, like you said, I have chimneys. At that moment I didn't care because the coals weren't being used for actual cooking.
I'm willing to struggle with dampening coals and a chimney in rainstorm to light a grill or smoker than concede to Girl Scout Juice, or worse yet: propane!
Be well
I don't actually use lighter fluid at all. That was a jug of it the PO of my Weber threw in to sweeten the deal, I honestly had no use for it in grilling or smoking, because, like you said, I have chimneys. At that moment I didn't care because the coals weren't being used for actual cooking.
I'm willing to struggle with dampening coals and a chimney in rainstorm to light a grill or smoker than concede to Girl Scout Juice, or worse yet: propane!
Be well
ncdodave
Smoking Fanatic
Well,
the discussion continues.....
As for a starter set, any cast iron is definitely better than no cast iron at all. I use both Camp Chef and Lodge, among 4 or 5 other brands I regularly use and have had no issues with. 12" regular Dutch ovens are best to start then the deep, why? Because 90% of the recipes out there will use a 12" Dutch oven without mentioning what size oven to use. You can cook anything requiring a 9 X 12" pan in a 12" DO. heat issues between sizes? I have no problems adjusting heat no matter what size oven I use from 8" to 16" using the 2/3rds rule. (see previous posts I have posted with Dutch oven basics. If you are cooking for 2 to 6 regularly use a 10" oven and reduce the recipe by 1/3.
As for foil, it is not necessary and I use it only in 2 situations, the first is when I cater and need to bake many loaves of bread. I don't use foil but use cake pans instead. This way I can use say 4 or 5 ovens to cook off 10 to 40 loaves of bread without having to cool down and reheat an oven. I just pull out the baked loaf of bread and put in a risen ball of dough cover and continue baking. The other reason is when I bake cookies in my DO. and the only time I use actual foil. You need a cold cookie sheet to place cookie dough on when baking, so I use 2 pieces. I place dough on one and bake the first batch of cookies on the lid using the pot as the lid, upside down baking. Then place cookie dough on the second sheet and switch the "foil sheets" when the first batch is done and the second batch slides right into the oven and bakes. Then in 5 minutes after the first batch cools I remove the baked cookies and put more dough on the first sheet and continue baking my cookies.
Defeating the whole purpose of using cast iron I mean that the seasoning protects the iron from rust which is its whole purpose. The benefits of seasoning is a healthy stick free pot pan waffle iron or other CI cooking implement. You get awesome flavors from the iron cooking on it's surface. The points of aluminum are mentioned before and don't need repeating. There really is no need for foil in CI. Porcelain coatings also take away from the flavor enhancement of cast iron to food and its super expensive so, why pay for it?
As for lighting a chimney, everyone has their methods and I don't care weather newspaper, juice, propane or other methods are used to light the fire. I teach thousands of people every year I use propane cause its fast and works well in the demo and class atmosphere. I also use newspaper to light my coals. I don't like juice but if someone else uses juice I'll show them how I light without juice but I wont stop them from using it. Coals in a chimney light better from the bottom and juice is applied from the top so it makes sense not to use juice and I have better results without it.
Right now the Grange Co-op here in Medford, OR has a starter set very similar for $30.00. I wouldn't buy that set for my self but I would encourage anyone looking for CI to purchase the set. Why? Because I own and use almost 170 CI pieces and only buy what I'm looking for and need. Second as previously mentioned, A cheap set of cast iron is much better than no cast iron. And the person can make decisions on his or her own after getting more CI cooking experience.
the discussion continues.....
As for a starter set, any cast iron is definitely better than no cast iron at all. I use both Camp Chef and Lodge, among 4 or 5 other brands I regularly use and have had no issues with. 12" regular Dutch ovens are best to start then the deep, why? Because 90% of the recipes out there will use a 12" Dutch oven without mentioning what size oven to use. You can cook anything requiring a 9 X 12" pan in a 12" DO. heat issues between sizes? I have no problems adjusting heat no matter what size oven I use from 8" to 16" using the 2/3rds rule. (see previous posts I have posted with Dutch oven basics. If you are cooking for 2 to 6 regularly use a 10" oven and reduce the recipe by 1/3.
As for foil, it is not necessary and I use it only in 2 situations, the first is when I cater and need to bake many loaves of bread. I don't use foil but use cake pans instead. This way I can use say 4 or 5 ovens to cook off 10 to 40 loaves of bread without having to cool down and reheat an oven. I just pull out the baked loaf of bread and put in a risen ball of dough cover and continue baking. The other reason is when I bake cookies in my DO. and the only time I use actual foil. You need a cold cookie sheet to place cookie dough on when baking, so I use 2 pieces. I place dough on one and bake the first batch of cookies on the lid using the pot as the lid, upside down baking. Then place cookie dough on the second sheet and switch the "foil sheets" when the first batch is done and the second batch slides right into the oven and bakes. Then in 5 minutes after the first batch cools I remove the baked cookies and put more dough on the first sheet and continue baking my cookies.
Defeating the whole purpose of using cast iron I mean that the seasoning protects the iron from rust which is its whole purpose. The benefits of seasoning is a healthy stick free pot pan waffle iron or other CI cooking implement. You get awesome flavors from the iron cooking on it's surface. The points of aluminum are mentioned before and don't need repeating. There really is no need for foil in CI. Porcelain coatings also take away from the flavor enhancement of cast iron to food and its super expensive so, why pay for it?
As for lighting a chimney, everyone has their methods and I don't care weather newspaper, juice, propane or other methods are used to light the fire. I teach thousands of people every year I use propane cause its fast and works well in the demo and class atmosphere. I also use newspaper to light my coals. I don't like juice but if someone else uses juice I'll show them how I light without juice but I wont stop them from using it. Coals in a chimney light better from the bottom and juice is applied from the top so it makes sense not to use juice and I have better results without it.
Right now the Grange Co-op here in Medford, OR has a starter set very similar for $30.00. I wouldn't buy that set for my self but I would encourage anyone looking for CI to purchase the set. Why? Because I own and use almost 170 CI pieces and only buy what I'm looking for and need. Second as previously mentioned, A cheap set of cast iron is much better than no cast iron. And the person can make decisions on his or her own after getting more CI cooking experience.
i is a moose
Smoking Fanatic
you bring up some good points. I especially agree that any cast iron is better than none at all; in the right hands, anything can produce perfect results. Truth is, one of my unit's is neither Lodge nor CC, but Wagner Ware: there's more to cast iron than a handful of makes!
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