Why won’t my meat cure?

[indaswamp]

*Correction/clarification
I have seen grey raw meat before, but it is always on the surface from protein oxidation, like that which happens when a package of ground meat sits in the grocer freezer for too long.

 

[dernektambura]

I can't tell the percentage of cure by naked eye, and I don't care, but I can tell if it's cured enough by the color.
Most people don't even check, but most people who learned from me check it the way I do.
You don't have to---That's up to you, but when you tell people they can't tell if the cure got to center by looking at the color, you're wrong, and hopefully there will be somebody there to correct that, before other people get it wrong too.

Every one of my Step by Steps in the curing section has that explained and over 9 years nobody has taken exception to it until You today. Hopefully somebody else can enlighten you. I give up.
I help people who want to be helped & learn what I have learned, and what hundreds of other guys on this forum have learned.

I'm done trying to help you. Somebody else please take over.

Bear

Bear, I meant no disrespect to you... as I said I do have utmost respect for your knowledge...
All I am saying is: my observations may not reflect scientific facts proved under controlled lab environment... I apologize if sounded disrespectful to all hard work you've done to bring our hobby to enjoyable level...

 

[Bearcarver]

and one more thing... How can you give advices based on pictures other people show to you if it never happen to you, and you never seen it before... it means you giving advice by hart and it is dangerous thing to do... you may be wrong cuz picture doesnt tells you everything...

I can see enough in a picture to see if the perimeter is Pink & the center is Grey.
I was done with you, but who in hell do you think you are telling me I'm doing something dangerous. I've been helping others for many years, and haven't had any complaints.
Instead of talking stupid, hundreds of other guys are here to learn and appreciate it.

The only reason they haven't chimed in is they figure I can handle it, and they don't want to get involved with you & get in trouble. If it was a Toss-up, I'd have quit a long time ago, but it's not, and now you're talking about me hurting others. I'm pretty sick of you. I'm done with you again.

 

[dernektambura]

I can see enough in a picture to see if the perimeter is Pink & the center is Grey.
I was done with you, but who in hell do you think you are telling me I'm doing something dangerous. I've been helping others for many years, and haven't had any complaints.
Instead of talking stupid, hundreds of other guys are here to learn and appreciate it.

The only reason they haven't chimed in is they figure I can handle it, and they don't want to get involved with you & get in trouble. If it was a Toss-up, I'd have quit a long time ago, but it's not, and now you're talking about me hurting others. I'm pretty sick of you. I'm done with you again.

Bear.... still, after all what you said to me, I do like you... why? cuz you're my big brother, just over the border from Canada and without you Russians would take us over... I am not done with you... why should I... I am sure there is a lot of other stuff you know and I don't... This is no competition... I read most of your posts... why? cuz I want to pick my brain... I do this stuff since age of 5 and my grandpa was strict... either you learn or you get your as wooped... lol... thanks to Google and late technology I could check all of grandpa advices and let me tell'ya... I've gotten ass woopin' in the past for no reason. God have mercy on my grandpa soul, cuz he wasn't scientist and his curing process doesn't have nothing to do with science... still, in this age of technology and at age of 57 I have hard time to contradict old times..... Watching from above, my grandpa may as well woop my as in sleep for not following sacred spell....

 

[chef jimmyj]

How can you clear confusion with wrong info.
You can see what's cured & what's not cured by cutting it open after curing---BEFORE SMOKING ! THat's why we check it after curing, but before smoking!!!
If it doesn't get to the center, the center will not be Pink---It will be Gray.

Bear

ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!

From the USDA...

"Danger Zone" (40 °F - 140 °F) | Food Safety and Inspection Service

www.fsis.usda.gov

10. What causes grayish or green color on cured meats?
Exposure to light and oxygen causes oxidation to take place, which causes the breaking down of color pigments formed during the curing process. Chemicals in the cure and oxygen, as well as energy from ultraviolet and visible light, contribute to both the chemical breakdown and microbial spoilage of the product. Cure, such as nitrite, chemically changes the color of muscle. Curing solutions are colored in order to distinguish them from other ingredients (such as sugar or salt) used in fresh and cured meat products. For example, cured raw pork is gray, but cured cooked pork (e.g., ham) is light pink.

The Gray color quickly turns Red as the now exposed Myoglobin absorbs Oxygen. This Chemical reaction happens quickly and the Gray color can easily be missed. This is why there is an argument and misunderstanding Here. If you are not Specifically looking for Gray, you may not see it by the time the meat turns Red...JJ

 

[dernektambura]

ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!

From the USDA...

"Danger Zone" (40 °F - 140 °F) | Food Safety and Inspection Service

www.fsis.usda.gov

10. What causes grayish or green color on cured meats?
Exposure to light and oxygen causes oxidation to take place, which causes the breaking down of color pigments formed during the curing process. Chemicals in the cure and oxygen, as well as energy from ultraviolet and visible light, contribute to both the chemical breakdown and microbial spoilage of the product. Cure, such as nitrite, chemically changes the color of muscle. Curing solutions are colored in order to distinguish them from other ingredients (such as sugar or salt) used in fresh and cured meat products. For example, cured raw pork is gray, but cured cooked pork (e.g., ham) is light pink.

The Gray color quickly turns Red as the now exposed Myoglobin absorbs Oxygen. This Chemical reaction happens quickly and the Gray color can easily be missed. This is why there is an argument and misunderstanding Here. If you are not Specifically looking for Gray, you may not see it by the time the meat turns Red...JJ

thank you... it would be a much easier if I wasn't color blind...! lol... just kidding jimmyj... at the end of the day we all learn something new and it is all good!

 

[chef jimmyj]

You are welcome. Sorry I didn't get to this LIVELY party before it got where it went. I can understand both sides.
The very short lived Gray interior is easy to miss as the formation of Oxymyoglobin, turning Red, happens fast. There are other factors that effect meat color and color change but that could end up complicating the situation.
While Debate and Disagreement is fine, keeping even tempers and not getting Disrespectful, keeps SMF a Friendly site where no one has to fear ridicule asking a question or posting an answer...JJ

 

[dernektambura]

You are welcome. Sorry I didn't get to this LIVELY party before it got where it went. I can understand both sides.
The very short lived Gray interior is easy to miss as the formation of Oxymyoglobin, turning Red, happens fast. There are other factors that effect meat color and color change but that could end up complicating the situation.
While Debate and Disagreement is fine, keeping even tempers and not getting Disrespectful, keeps SMF a Friendly site where no one has to fear ridicule asking a question or posting an answer...JJ

Jabiru.... watch how you formulate your next question for help... lts hard to get same weed quality across the US / CANADA border to stay on same page with all this trade war going on... lol...
sorry, I couldn't miss this one... lol...

 

[chef jimmyj]

Easy there Sir. THEY are watching. Shhhhhhh...JJ

 

[dernektambura]

Easy there Sir. THEY are watching. Shhhhhhh...JJ

lol...

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you Chef jimmyj for the great clarification. As with most disagreements, both parties were talking past each other....

 

[chopsaw]

Thank you Chef jimmyj for the great clarification. As with most disagreements, both parties were talking past each other....

Thanks for clearing that up . Go wipe your nose off .

 

[Jabiru]

Holy smokes!

Thank you all for the help. My cured meat is always Grey in the centre like the pictures Bearcarver posted. But when I fry my bacon it tastes like bacon.. But it is definitely not cured through.

From the Knowledge provided in this thread it looks like I will have to:
1. Start injecting .
2. Buy a better cure with the Ingredients listed.

The loins are always quite large about 2kg and about 3" thick. The Leg I am doing now is about 4" thick, 3.5KG.

if it is over 2" thick, then inject so it cures from the outside in as well as the inside out.

Thicker cuts should be injected. I've done pork loins in 14 days with them being wet brined and injecting them. You can still inject the leg you put in the brine.

I will do this I reckon Steve H & zwiller . Are you saying just put current brine from bucket into the Syringe and inject?

Again, thanks all for your help.

 

[indaswamp]

Go wipe your nose off .

Now why would I need to do that?

 

[chopsaw]

Buy a better cure with the Ingredients listed.

Happy you got some direction from all this . Just make sure you know what cure you have , and the ingredients are listed on the bag .
If you have access to Morton's Tender Quick , you should give Bearcarver steps a look . Follow his directions and knowledge of that method , and you will be happy with the results . I have done several of his cure 's and also the normal smokes . Never had a bad one . It's all laid out for you to reference and guide you thru .

Doing Hams I use Dave's info for the phosphate injected cure . It is the best ham you will ever eat . This will fix your un-cured ham trouble .

HAM.... easy peasy... no mess.... DISCLAIMER.. MONEY...

I've been injecting hams to cure for some time... decided I needed a needle to get to all parts from one side... No flipping, no turning, here it its.... 5" , #14 gauge blunt/sharpened needle.. Found this picnic at w-m that has NOT been injected... The paper towel is sprayed with vinegar...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

Good luck .

 

[Jabiru]

Thanks chopsaw . Unfortunately I cant get Tender Quick in Australia. That link to Daves Ham looks like a winner, I wish I saw that a week ago, will definitely try that.

I might have to buy a Store Bought ham as Backup for Christmas day, just in case

 

[chopsaw]

I might have to buy a Store Bought ham as Backup for Christmas day,

I would do that . Look thru these .

Double Smoked Holiday Ham Glazed with Maple Syrup - Learn to Smoke Meat with Jeff Phillips

There's a very good chance that this double smoked ham will be the best holiday ham you've ever tasted. How do I know this? I've been making this ham for a

www.Smoking-Meat.com

Here's one of Bear's . I've done this one . Really good .

Double Smoked Ham (Bear Style)

Double Smoked Ham (Bear Style) I made a Step by Step of Smoking 2 Hams, and one of Smoking 4 Hams, so I figured it’s time to do a Single Ham. These are still the Best Hams I’ve ever eaten, so might as well go for it. Also Mrs Bear found this Fully Cooked Shank Portion Ham on sale for 99...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[Steve H]

Holy smokes!

Thank you all for the help. My cured meat is always Grey in the centre like the pictures Bearcarver posted. But when I fry my bacon it tastes like bacon.. But it is definitely not cured through.

From the Knowledge provided in this thread it looks like I will have to:
1. Start injecting .
2. Buy a better cure with the Ingredients listed.

The loins are always quite large about 2kg and about 3" thick. The Leg I am doing now is about 4" thick, 3.5KG.





I will do this I reckon Steve H & zwiller . Are you saying just put current brine from bucket into the Syringe and inject?

Again, thanks all for your help.

Yes, that will do the trick just fine.

 

[Jabiru]

Cool, thanks Steve. I’ll let you know the result.

 

[sawhorseray]

Are you saying just put current brine from bucket into the Syringe and inject? [/QUOTE]

Yes, exactly that. Weigh your meat when you bring it home before doing anything to it, what you will have will be referred to as the "green weight" of the meat. For curing hams and bacon you'll be wanting to inject 10% of the "green weight" of your meat, into the meat. We'll go on the assumption you have a properly formulated brine: water, salt, Cure #1, powdered dextrose, etc. You've got a hog leg that had a green weight of ten pounds. 10% of that would be one pound, so you would want to inject 16 ounces of your brine solution into the meat. Once it's properly cured it's no longer a hog leg, now it's a ham. It's the sodium nitrite, Cure #1, that'll cause the change in color, and flavor , of cured meats. Hope this helps. RAY