Summer Sausage Conflicting Recipes Using Tender Quick

[thirdeye]

My neighbor is planning on making Summer Sausage with some of last years elk and venison. I know too well about the trustworthiness of some online sites, but we're seeing an odd trend repeat itself when it comes to amounts of Tender Quick (he prefers TQ to Cure #1). Many recipes call for 1 tablespoon/pound (which is the amount used when dry curing whole muscle meat), other recipes list 2 teaspoon/pounds, and a few recipes use 1.5 teaspoons/pound (which is the correct amount).

Here is where it gets weird, I have the Morton's Curing guide which contains some sample recipes that were "designed by meat curing experts at Morton". Recipes for Summer Sausage and Bologna call for 1/2 cup of TQ for 10 pound batches. (This is 24 teaspoons of TQ, not 15 teaspoons of TQ using 1.5 teaspoons per pound of ground meat). The same curing guide has several other sausage recipes that use 1.5 teaspoons of TQ per pound of ground meat.

It gets better.... the online recipes for Summer Sausage and Bologna are no longer listed on the Morton site but the others using 1.5 teaspoons of TQ per pound of ground meat are listed Also, I noticed that Morton now recommends not using TQ on belly bacon because of "inconsistencies in the meat/fat ratios of pork belly."


My question is..... Is there a valid reason to increase the TQ amounts in some ground meat recipes? Or did a few "hot" recipes get copied and pasted without anyone checking TQ amounts?

 

[chopsaw]

Is there a valid reason to increase the TQ amounts in some ground meat recipes?

No .
The correct amount for ground meat products is 1 1/2 teaspoons per pound .

It's a common mistake , I think because the bag only addresses the amounts for whole muscle .

 

[Bearcarver]

Like Chopsaw said, the proper amount of TQ for curing sausage is 1/2 TBS (1 1/2 tsp) of TQ per pound of Ground Meat.
I made an awful lot of Beef sticks like that, and "Bear Loaf" & "Bear Logs".
However when you use that much TQ, there won't be even a hint of salt flavor in the finished product. I have seen others use a little more TQ in their recipe or add a little salt just to get some salt flavor.
I wouldn't do it myself, but a small amount would not hurt, if you gotta have that salt flavor.

Here's some of Mine:
Unstuffed Beef Sticks (All Beef)
Smoked Bear Logs (All Beef)
Smoked Bear Loaf (All Beef)
Smoked Mini-Bear-Loaves (All Beef)
Smoked Pepperoni (All Beef)

Bear

 

[thirdeye]

No .
The correct amount for ground meat products is 1 1/2 teaspoons per pound .

It's a common mistake , I think because the bag only addresses the amounts for whole muscle .

Like Chopsaw said, the proper amount of TQ for curing sausage is 1/2 TBS (1 1/2 tsp) of TQ per pound of Ground Meat.
I made an awful lot of Beef sticks like that, and "Bear Loaf" & "Bear Logs".
However when you use that much TQ, there won't be even a hint of salt flavor in the finished product. I have seen others use a little more TQ in their recipe or add a little salt just to get some salt flavor.
I wouldn't do it myself, but a small amount would not hurt, if you gotta have that salt flavor.

Bear

I'm with both you guys on the correct amount for whole muscle meats, and for ground meats. What I don't get is why Morton elected to use more TQ in certain recipes, while using the 1.5 tsp/lb in others. Summer sausage or bologna is just larger diameter sausage.

Ironically, in a related issue from today, I was talking to a buddy that is also a TQ user, and he was questioning an online recipe where TQ is used in a 'universal' wet brine, and the ratio seems way out of whack (lower) when comparing to the Morton ratio of 1 cup of TQ to 4 cups of water. But I need to look into this further.

 

[Bearcarver]

I'm with both you guys on the correct amount for whole muscle meats, and for ground meats. What I don't get is why Morton elected to use more TQ in certain recipes, while using the 1.5 tsp/lb in others. Summer sausage or bologna is just larger diameter sausage.

Ironically, in a related issue from today, I was talking to a buddy that is also a TQ user, and he was questioning an online recipe where TQ is used in a 'universal' wet brine, and the ratio seems way out of whack (lower) when comparing to the Morton ratio of 1 cup of TQ to 4 cups of water. But I need to look into this further.

I never liked their TQ wet brine myself, so I just ignored it & never used it. If I was going to do a Wet Brine, I would use Cure #1 and do Pop's Formula. All of my curing is TQ Dry Cured.

As for the difference in 1 TBS of TQ (1/2 ounce) for Whole Meat, and 1/2 TBS (1/4 ounce) for ground Meat, that used to bug me too, but I had it explained to me, and it made sense, but I forgot exactly what he said.
One part was that with the sausage, you're mixing that 1/4 ounce directly into the meat.
If I find it I'll Let you know.

Bear

 

[chopsaw]

Morton ratio of 1 cup of TQ to 4 cups of water.

Which in my opinion is way to much . I've used it in wet brines at a much lower rate . If you do any reading on Len Poli's you will notice when he brines with TQ it's about have the suggested amount . I don't care for the wet cure . Much better options out there .

Morton elected to use more TQ in certain recipes,

I've never personally read any of those on the Morton's web site . I do see it in personal post .

 

[thirdeye]

I never liked their TQ wet brine myself, so I just ignored it & never used it. If I was going to do a Wet Brine, I would use Cure #1 and do Pop's Formula. All of my curing is TQ Dry Cured.

As for the difference in 1 TBS of TQ (1/2 ounce) for Whole Meat, and 1/2 TBS (1/4 ounce) for ground Meat, that used to bug me too, but I had it explained to me, and it made sense, but I forgot exactly what he said.
One part was that with the sausage, you're mixing that 1/4 ounce directly into the meat.
If I find it I'll Let you know.

Bear

I'd appreciate that. I always thought it had to do with the increased surface area of ground meat. I would mix the TQ with ice water and blend that into the ground meat.

(1 cup TQ to 4 cups of water) Which in my opinion is way to much . I've used it in wet brines at a much lower rate . If you do any reading on Len Poli's you will notice when he brines with TQ it's about have the suggested amount . I don't care for the wet cure . Much better options out there .
I've never personally read any of those on the Morton's web site . I do see it in personal post .

I thought it seemed high, but that's a manufacturer's instruction. Just imagine how much TQ you would need to make a gallon of brine.

One other thought about online recipes using more than recommended in a dry cure is the fact that TQ is 79% salt, so it's possible people are increasing the amount of TQ to get the taste right, and not paying attention to the nitrate and nitrite.

EDIT - Morton has pulled those recipes from their website, but I have the Curing Manual.

 

[Bearcarver]

I never counted on any of Morton's Curing recipes being right.
One reason is if I remember correctly most of their cured meats in the Morton's book I got goes into a 350° oven for an hour, instead of a Low & Slow Smoker.
Do you really want to trust somebody that uses a recipe for curing, and then tells you to bake it at 350°??

Bear

 

[chopsaw]

but that's a manufacturer's instruction. Just imagine how much TQ you would need to make a gallon of brine.

Exactly . Way to salty . I have a thread where I did boneless chicken breast . I talk about the rate I used some .
The recipes are meant to be followed , I just think some are out dated . Their directions for the pickle / pump needs to be removed from the bag .

 

[thirdeye]

I never counted on any of Morton's Curing recipes being right.
One reason is if I remember correctly most of their cured meats in the Morton's book I got goes into a 350° oven for an hour, instead of a Low & Slow Smoker.
Do you really want to trust somebody that uses a recipe for curing, and then tells you to bake it at 350°??

Bear

I hear you. We might have the same booklet, about 30 pages long and has sketches instead of photos.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I never use TQ, mostly because the ratios are to salty for my taste. That said, I believe they are now discouraging the use of TQ in bacon because of the nitrate in the mix. USDA says no nitrate can be used in the manufacture of bacon. Maybe the nitrate has something to do with the oddball recipes today? Normally we wouldn’t put nitrate in ground meat or any meat that doesn’t dry or age more than 30 days. And what the heck happened to the sugar cure? It’s gone.

 

[thirdeye]

I never use TQ, mostly because the ratios are to salty for my taste. That said, I believe they are now discouraging the use of TQ in bacon because of the nitrate in the mix. USDA says no nitrate can be used in the manufacture of bacon. Maybe the nitrate has something to do with the oddball recipes today? Normally we wouldn’t put nitrate in ground meat or any meat that doesn’t dry or age more than 30 days. And what the heck happened to the sugar cure? It’s gone.

I thought about that, but the ban on nitrate curing bacon was for commercial processors. I prefer Cure #1, but clear back to my Grandmother TQ was used on a few things, loin bacon, belly bacon, and pork chops for example. And I recommend it when people are getting started with curing because it's in the grocery stores and they might have friends that make Summer sausage (very popular around here with all the wild game) or something easy.

The Sugar Cure story is an odd one. The original was discontinued, but Morton kept the name and packaging with one exception.... they added a line that said Morton Sugar Cure can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick. I called the company and was put in touch with an Engineer and he said "now, both products are Tender Quick". I believe the Sugar cure still came with the spice packet, but the sugar content was cut back to 20% just like TQ. It sounded like they wanted to keep brand recognition. I guess it's now discontinued, but they have a smoked Sugar Cure.

I might wind up converting my neighbor to Cure #1 and plan on giving my other buddy some starter recipes with Cure #1 to see how he likes them. I'm going to start a new thread with my wet brine using TQ questions.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I thought about that, but the ban on nitrate curing bacon was for commercial processors. I prefer Cure #1, but clear back to my Grandmother TQ was used on a few things, loin bacon, belly bacon, and pork chops for example. And I recommend it when people are getting started with curing because it's in the grocery stores and they might have friends that make Summer sausage (very popular around here with all the wild game) or something easy.

The Sugar Cure story is an odd one. The original was discontinued, but Morton kept the name and packaging with one exception.... they added a line that said Morton Sugar Cure can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick. I called the company and was put in touch with an Engineer and he said "now, both products are Tender Quick". I believe the Sugar cure still came with the spice packet, but the sugar content was cut back to 20% just like TQ. It sounded like they wanted to keep brand recognition. I guess it's now discontinued, but they have a smoked Sugar Cure.

I might wind up converting my neighbor to Cure #1 and plan on giving my other buddy some starter recipes with Cure #1 to see how he likes them. I'm going to start a new thread with my wet brine using TQ questions.

Interesting. TQ is safe, I’ll just get that out there, but maybe out dated as a mixture. Today we can use less salt % because of common refrigeration, and we can just focus on nitrite for curing.
One problem I see in these modern times with the TQ mix is the equal parts of nitrite and nitrate used. The levels are fine, but at refrigerated temperature, below 40*F the nitrate never converts to nitrite and continue the break down into nitric oxcide because the bacteria needed to break down nitrates goes dormant below 40* and really needs temps closer to 55*F. So curing in a refrigerator is the wrong place to use TQ because the nitrate will still mostly remain in the final product as NaNo3 with no break down.

I encourage all smokers to use cure #1 with salt. Long haul drying and aging still benefit from nitrate, but even then, cure #2 contains 6.25% nitrite and 1.0% nitrate. This is only used for drying beyond 30 days. TQ is 1:1 nitrite to nitrate.

 

[thirdeye]

Interesting. TQ is safe, I’ll just get that out there, but maybe out dated as a mixture. Today we can use less salt % because of common refrigeration, and we can just focus on nitrite for curing.
One problem I see in these modern times with the TQ mix is the equal parts of nitrite and nitrate used. The levels are fine, but at refrigerated temperature, below 40*F the nitrate never converts to nitrite and continue the break down into nitric oxcide because the bacteria needed to break down nitrates goes dormant below 40* and really needs temps closer to 55*F. So curing in a refrigerator is the wrong place to use TQ because the nitrate will still mostly remain in the final product as NaNo3 with no break down.

I encourage all smokers to use cure #1 with salt. Long haul drying and aging still benefit from nitrate, but even then, cure #2 contains 6.25% nitrite and 1.0% nitrate. This is only used for drying beyond 30 days. TQ is 1:1 nitrite to nitrate.

I agree it's a safe product. It was designed for home curing because being premixed eliminated measuring salt, sugar and cure. And the measurement could be a little heavy handed and still in the acceptable range. I was led to believe the 0.5% nitrate acted in a time release fashion converting to nitrite over time, and did not realize the nitrate needed higher temps to break down. Remember the old curing methods that called for a second application of cure after 5 or 6 days and a couple of overhaul steps? Maybe Morton considered those methods and used nitrate?

 

[SmokinEdge]

I agree it's a safe product. It was designed for home curing because being premixed eliminated measuring salt, sugar and cure. And the measurement could be a little heavy handed and still in the acceptable range. I was led to believe the 0.5% nitrate acted in a time release fashion converting to nitrite over time, and did not realize the nitrate needed higher temps to break down. Remember the old curing methods that called for a second application of cure after 5 or 6 days and a couple of overhaul steps? Maybe Morton considered those methods and used nitrate?

Back in the day, folks were using salt peter, potassium nitrate, to cure. Morton was a more “modern” cure and easier to use because of the added nitrite (sodium nitrite) which cures meat directly, insuring a positive curing experience. The nitrate they have in their cure was and is sodium nitrate, not potassium nitrate, but they both basically cure the same in that they (nitrates) do not directly cure meat. They first need to react with with bacteria, that must be present, these bacteria are largely inactive in temps below 45* , but the bacteria convert the nitrate into nitrite which readily convert to nitric oxide and effect curing.
Back then folks cured meat in a smokehouse with shelves that they first rubbed the meat with a cure mix then left the meat sit on these shelves to cure for a time. Bellies shorter than shoulders and leg hams the longest. Two and sometimes three applications of cure were applied to the meat at time intervals. Anyways this was done outdoors with variable temps, but mostly averaging above 45* more like 40-60* . the nitrate worked fine here and the bacteria were active. Today it’s all modern refrigeration with temp below 40*. Nitrate is non functional below 45* practically because of the lack of active bacteria.

 

[thirdeye]

Back in the day, folks were using salt peter, potassium nitrate, to cure. Morton was a more “modern” cure and easier to use because of the added nitrite (sodium nitrite) which cures meat directly, insuring a positive curing experience. The nitrate they have in their cure was and is sodium nitrate, not potassium nitrate, but they both basically cure the same in that they (nitrates) do not directly cure meat. They first need to react with with bacteria, that must be present, these bacteria are largely inactive in temps below 45* , but the bacteria convert the nitrate into nitrite which readily convert to nitric oxide and effect curing.
Back then folks cured meat in a smokehouse with shelves that they first rubbed the meat with a cure mix then left the meat sit on these shelves to cure for a time. Bellies shorter than shoulders and leg hams the longest. Two and sometimes three applications of cure were applied to the meat at time intervals. Anyways this was done outdoors with variable temps, but mostly averaging above 45* more like 40-60* . the nitrate worked fine here and the bacteria were active. Today it’s all modern refrigeration with temp below 40*. Nitrate is non functional below 45* practically because of the lack of active bacteria.

My Grandfather used the salt box method and I have a feeling the cure was saltpeter. It was an eyeball thing, no actual measurement of the curing mixture. When refrigeration was not that common he had dairy cattle and an ice house. During the depression he sold meat on the side, from the stories most of the cured meat was bacon or loins.... ham took too long.

 

[Bearcarver]

I never use TQ, mostly because the ratios are to salty for my taste. That said, I believe they are now discouraging the use of TQ in bacon because of the nitrate in the mix. USDA says no nitrate can be used in the manufacture of bacon. Maybe the nitrate has something to do with the oddball recipes today? Normally we wouldn’t put nitrate in ground meat or any meat that doesn’t dry or age more than 30 days. And what the heck happened to the sugar cure? It’s gone.

I have never cured anything with TQ that ended up too salty.
The only time I cured anything that I had to soak to get rid of extra salt flavor was when I used Hi Mountain cure & seasoning, and followed their directions.
The problem they claimed with TQ was that if you cured Bacon with TQ, and then burned your Bacon, it could cause Nitrosamines, (especially in California).LOL. I never burn Bacon---I thought that was against the Law!!!

Bear

 

[bill ace 350]

I think TQ is a very good product.
Works great for bacon, Canadian bacon, dried beef, pork chops, summer sausage. lots of good safe recipes out there for TQ.
if you haven't tried any, don't pass judgment until you do.