Reversing Snack Stix Smoking/Cooking Order?

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by oberst, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. oberst

    oberst Smoke Blower

    Am planning to make snack stix using some Canada geese I luckily got.  What about this approach:  I plan to smoke/cook the geese first, then grind and add spices and stuff.  At this point the stix are cooked and smoked.  Now I'll put them in the oven to get the exact shrinkage desired, which should be way easier as on convection bake my oven is way more uniform than my little MES.

    Result should be perfectly smoked and shrunk stix, unless I'm failing to consider an important variable(s).  Am I on the right track here?

    Thanks for your input!!
     
  2. boykjo

    boykjo Sausage maker Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Not sure. never heard of that approach. have you ever done it like that before. sounds like your going to make a cooked sausage like boudin, make sticks and dry in the oven. Let us know how they come out and dont forget to post some pics

    Joe
     
  3. crankybuzzard

    crankybuzzard Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Could end up dry, depending upon how you cook the meats. Collagen casing or sheep?
     
  4. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I smoke my snack sticks at ~150 F for 24 hours to get an IT of about 140... then slow cool in the smoker for shrink.... shrinkage is what it is...

     
  5. smokin phil

    smokin phil Smoking Fanatic

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  6. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I'm thinking they will be crumbly and dry, but I'll be watching to see what you think.
     
  7. wolfman1955

    wolfman1955 Master of the Pit

    [​IMG]

    I agree with DanMcG!! I think they will be way to dry and the meat will be crumbly.
     
  8. 4pogo7

    4pogo7 Smoking Fanatic

    Could this be the snack stick to your jerky?

    http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/236841/tried-something-new-with-my-jerky-all-done-with-pics
    I see how it could be dry, but if you cook them just to the safe IT then they should still be moist if not juicy. Then grind, mix, stuff, and I would go for very little shrinkage/drying so that they don't get too dry and crumble. I like your idea. Let us know how it goes and don't forget the Q-view!
     
  9. crankybuzzard

    crankybuzzard Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Yep! I love experimenting, and this will be an experiment, but it could be a costly one. One doesn't obtain a Canada goose every day. Also, I planned to dry mine out on purpose. :biggrin:

    I'd love to see how it works, I'd just suggest trying a small batch as a test run first. My little roast was left whole muscle and could have been used for something else. After the goose is ground....
     
  10. 4pogo7

    4pogo7 Smoking Fanatic

    TACOS!!! Lol Sort of like ground turkey meat. But seriously...
    [​IMG]  Very good advice!
     
  11. szynka

    szynka Fire Starter

    Not a good idea. There are fundamentals in sausage making and this is way off.  Your cooked meat mix will not bind since you mead myosin, salt and water to do the job and that can only be achieved with raw meat.  I hope you have a dog.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  12. 4pogo7

    4pogo7 Smoking Fanatic

    What about Boubin?

    http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/237020/made-some-boudin-today-all-stuffed-and-packaged

    I think doing a small batch wouldn't be a problem. Should be fine as long as you don't dry the meat out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  13. crankybuzzard

    crankybuzzard Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Boudin is pre-cooked, but it's a fatty meat and it's not really a sausage as much as it is a meat mixture in a tube. When you open boudin, it easily falls apart.

    I agree with the small batch. Experimentation is fun, and you can usually eat your results.
     
  14. 4pogo7

    4pogo7 Smoking Fanatic

    Ah, my mistake. I am not familiar with boudin, just saw your post earlier today and it made me think of it. Thanks for the info CB
     
  15. crankybuzzard

    crankybuzzard Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    That's the main thrust of this forum, learning and teaching.

    Seldom does a day go by that this site doesn't supply some new info for me!
     
  16. oberst

    oberst Smoke Blower

    You guys have me thinking.  To answer some questions; am planning to use collagen casing.  Will definitely do a small batch.  Want to avoid crumbly and dry so will pay special attention to that advice.  Regarding the cooked meat not binding comment; one option will be to smoke/cook the geese short of fully done, and then finish with a heat boost after stuffing.

    Another idea that comes to mind is to use venison, like 3.5 pounds, and add 1.5 pounds of smoked duck/goose fat instead of pork.  Take a look:  This is smoked duck leg.  About 4 hours with pecan, just warm smoked.


    I can the duck legs with wild rice in a pressure cooker; will submit a piece on that later.  But before that, I trim the fat and it looks like this:


    I use a maple syrup based brine, and let me say that this smoked fat is to die for!!  Of course the complication is finding huge mallards this incredibly fat!  So, I'm thinking as an add to venison this duck fat will be a real step up.

    Really, when I smoke the geese (and my original thought was to go with a straight goose snack stik) I don't have to smoke/cook it until the IT says 'done'.  I can just smoke it until I have the amount of smoke desired, then grind, add cure and spices, and finish cooking in the oven.  That might help me avoid your concerns over getting too dry, crumbly, and not binding well.  Update coming after Thanksgiving.  
     
  17. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Partially cooking meat without cure #1, allows pathogens to grow in the meat... then while cooling, they are still growing.... possible to a toxic state..... NEVER partially cook, meat whether in a smoker or oven.... The meat is in the danger zone too long.....
     
  18. crankybuzzard

    crankybuzzard Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I agree, 100%.
     
  19. oberst

    oberst Smoke Blower

    Hadn't fully considered that Dave!  Does brining the meat for 12+ hours before smoking help alleviate that concern, given that I'd be barely warm smoking the geese for maybe four hours, then grinding and adding cure at that point?

    Or, after brining, would cold smoking keep me out of the danger zone while still getting the smoke safely on the meat? (cool in Missouri now; I can keep smoker chilly)

    Or maybe I'm better off just grinding the geese, mixing and stuffing as usual, and smoking/cooking in the casings, like is typically done.

    Or back to my original idea of fully smoking/cooking the geese and then stuffing; small batch to see how it works.

    (I had food poisoning once, decades ago when I was young and strong; from that I can see how people die from it.)
     
  20. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I would make a regular sausage, with cure #1 and smoke at 160 until the IT is 145 for 1 hour then dunk in an ice bath... that will stop the shrinkage... 145 for 1 hour should kill every pathogen... It's supposed to kill it all in 4 minutes... longer is good... especially for wild game...


    Temperature Time Temperature Time
    °F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
    130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
    131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
    132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
    133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
    134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
    135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
    136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
    137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
    138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
    139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
    140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
    141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
    142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
    143 (61.7) 6 min
    144 (62.2) 5 min
    145 (62.8) 4 min
    Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).
     

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