Question on PID Controller

[HalfSmoked]

Inkbird has a PID40W on Amazon would it be suitable for a MES40?
PID Temperature Controller Kit
High Voltage 100ACV to 240ACT
Comes with SSR 40DA solid State Relay, K Type Thermocouple and White Heat Sink.
Selling for $41.00

I don't understand anything about a PID Unit other than they are used to replace faulty controllers.
Any help will be appreciated.
Either reply here or a PM.
Thanks

Warren

 

[tallbm]

Inkbird has a PID40W on Amazon would it be suitable for a MES40?
PID Temperature Controller Kit
High Voltage 100ACV to 240ACT
Comes with SSR 40DA solid State Relay, K Type Thermocouple and White Heat Sink.
Selling for $41.00

I don't understand anything about a PID Unit other than they are used to replace faulty controllers.
Any help will be appreciated.
Either reply here or a PM.
Thanks

Warren

Hi Warren.

I looked it up and it should do the trick.
The 40 Amp SSR will handle and switch on/off the voltage from you home outlet no problem (110/120 V).

What you are seeing on Amazon is just like 70% of what is needed to build a complete working controller.

• You see the PID the controller (black part with display).
• The temp probe (thermocouple)
• the 40 Amp SSR (Switches power to MES on/off)
• the Heat Sink (dissipates heat from SSR so it doesn't overheat).

The way this all behaves is:

1. Plug complete built PID controller setup into home outlet
2. Plug rewired MES40 into PID
3. Put PID temp probe inside MES
4. Enter set temp into PID
5. PID will feed power on/off from home outlet to MES40 to hit and hold set temp

The way this wires up is represented the following image. Top image is the HOT wire and all the SSR signal switching, Bottom image is the Neutral wire which is simple:

This can take a little while to digest so please don't feel defeated. It becomes much clearer as you ask more questions and digest it more and more :)

I hope this info helps :)

 

[river100]

Hi Warren.

I looked it up and it should do the trick.
The 40 Amp SSR will handle and switch on/off the voltage from you home outlet no problem (110/120 V).

What you are seeing on Amazon is just like 70% of what is needed to build a complete working controller.

• You see the PID the controller (black part with display).
• The temp probe (thermocouple)
• the 40 Amp SSR (Switches power to MES on/off)
• the Heat Sink (dissipates heat from SSR so it doesn't overheat).

The way this all behaves is:

1. Plug complete built PID controller setup into home outlet
2. Plug rewired MES40 into PID
3. Put PID temp probe inside MES
4. Enter set temp into PID
5. PID will feed power on/off from home outlet to MES40 to hit and hold set temp

The way this wires up is represented the following image. Top image is the HOT wire and all the SSR signal switching, Bottom image is the Neutral wire which is simple:

View attachment 508019
This can take a little while to digest so please don't feel defeated. It becomes much clearer as you ask more questions and digest it more and more :)

I hope this info helps :)

I'm not trying to be an ass here but.. I build PID controlled systems and this diagram is confusing to me. I know what you are doing here but still could be confusing.
i suggest if you rewire the smoker then integrate the PID into the smoker unless you need to remove the PID from the weather.

 

[cmayna]

HalfSmoked,
I use a Auber PID controller with the MES40. Have never had a problem. Very accurate, etc. Way more expensive but for me, you get what you pay for.

 

[tallbm]

I'm not trying to be an ass here but.. I build PID controlled systems and this diagram is confusing to me. I know what you are doing here but still could be confusing.
i suggest if you rewire the smoker then integrate the PID into the smoker unless you need to remove the PID from the weather.

Lol, I hear ya. It's kind of hard to depict for someone new to learn and I'm definitely no graphic or image creating wizard as you can tell haha :D

With the MES smokers I don't know of a good way to directly integrate the controller into the MES directly. There isn't any housing or space for the actual PID so a project box would be needed.

Something like this looks much better to our eyes but would be impossible for a person getting into building a PID to easily digest:

(Disclaimer: original photo didn't show Grounding to the metal box/chasis so I photoshopped it in with my miserable editing skills haha. Grounding is important though and should be done properly.)

I'm game to replace those other diagrams with anything easier to digest. Shot me some images/diagrams or links to images/diagrams and I will gladly replace with something cleaner :)

 

[tallbm]

HalfSmoked,
I use a Auber PID controller with the MES40. Have never had a problem. Very accurate, etc. Way more expensive but for me, you get what you pay for.

I built a whole PID controller this weekend and I already have some parts and tools and such and it still ran me $124 so the Auber PID at $150 (before tax and shipping) is still a really competitive price, especially since they assemble it all for you. The biggest issue I have is cutting holes and rectangles into metal since all I have are hand tools like Dremel's and drills haha. It does the job but not elegantly :)

 

[river100]

Lol, I hear ya. It's kind of hard to depict for someone new to learn and I'm definitely no graphic or image creating wizard as you can tell haha :D

With the MES smokers I don't know of a good way to directly integrate the controller into the MES directly. There isn't any housing or space for the actual PID so a project box would be needed.

Something like this looks much better to our eyes but would be impossible for a person getting into building a PID to easily digest:
View attachment 508691

I'm game to replace those other diagrams with anything easier to digest. Shot me some images/diagrams or links to images/diagrams and I will gladly replace with something cleaner :)

That's a very nice job, I use those same project boxes for encoder counters and yes the square hole is the hardest part. What kind of temp sensor are you using ? PT100 ?
I think with that picture and a simple wiring diagram it would be pretty easy for most DIY guys that can connect a few wires.

 

[HalfSmoked]

Don't consider anyone an ass river100 that is trying to help tallbm I appreciate your help as well. I have no clue what this is all about. Old dog here trying to do something new. Was given the smoker and was told the controller does not work. So all help is appreciated.

Warren

 

[radioguy]

Get a nibble tool for square holes. This plus a file set make nice square holes in thin stock.

RG

 

[cmayna]

If you lived nearby, I'd let you try one of my spare Aubers,who would love some exercise. There are other MES40 mods you might consider but we'll keep them for another thread.

 

[tallbm]

Don't consider anyone an ass river100 that is trying to help tallbm I appreciate your help as well. I have no clue what this is all about. Old dog here trying to do something new. Was given the smoker and was told the controller does not work. So all help is appreciated.

Warren

100% agree.

Also a good point was brought up to me. I don't show any Ground wiring but it is needed and needs to be done properly.

The diagrams I put up were to explain concepts and are definitely not an exact blueprint to be following when building and wiring a complete PID controller.

With all electricity related projects please consult a licensed electrician.
Get very well educated on the electrical part.
The rest is like connecting puzzle pieces that have to match, but you cannot ignore the fundamentals of electricity and electrical devices. Things like open/closed circuits, hot vs neutral vs ground wiring, Amperage and supporting components, why grounding is mandatory and is needed, and how switches will break or complete a circuit and where the electricity is traveling into the device in regard to the switch (don't want power going around the switch). Plus more.


All of this is another great reason that the Auber PID's are worth the $150 in addition to being competitive in price to building your own.

 

[river100]

100% agree.

Also a good point was brought up to me. I don't show any Ground wiring but it is needed and needs to be done properly.

The diagrams I put up were to explain concepts and are definitely not an exact blueprint to be following when building and wiring a complete PID controller.

With all electricity related projects please consult a licensed electrician.
Get very well educated on the electrical part.
The rest is like connecting puzzle pieces that have to match, but you cannot ignore the fundamentals of electricity and electrical devices. Things like open/closed circuits, hot vs neutral vs ground wiring, Amperage and supporting components, why grounding is mandatory and is needed, and how switches will break or complete a circuit and where the electricity is traveling into the device in regard to the switch (don't want power going around the switch). Plus more.


All of this is another great reason that the Auber PID's are worth the $150 in addition to being competitive in price to building your own.

I agree about the Auber kit. It's not a bad price for a working system. if you are not confident in electrical wiring or have somebody that can look over it the Auber is a much better deal.

 

[tallbm]

That's a very nice job, I use those same project boxes for encoder counters and yes the square hole is the hardest part. What kind of temp sensor are you using ? PT100 ?
I think with that picture and a simple wiring diagram it would be pretty easy for most DIY guys that can connect a few wires.

That photo I put in the last post was one grabbed off the internet to show something more physical rather than a drawing.

Here is what I built over the weekend and it uses a K-type thermocouple no PT100.

The project box was too small but I got everything to just safely fit and I'm hopeful the box will dissipate any heat very well, we'll see lol.
Minimally I would have liked 1.5 inches added to every dimension but more would be even better. It was like a $14 project box I wanted to try out and knew it was going to be a little snug but hey live and learn :)

Also noticed how I scraped up the plates pretty well since I did all the cuts with hand tools, hand drill, and the use of plyers to hold the metal at times. I don't have a drill press with a vice and clamps here at the house and wanted it all done. Nothing a little black paint wont fix :D

 

[river100]

It does look tight but if it fits, it fits.
The build looks professional to me.
I just touch up the scrapes with paint or Sharpie LOL.
Once you get to set point temp the SSR won't be getting too much use. I don't know if those little PIDs get hot or not.
I use a larger format PID in a much bigger enclosure for the controls I build.

This thread is making me want to build one for mine. :) I have most of the parts stuff laying around. I saw a MYPIN setup video today on you tube They're pretty popular.

 

[tallbm]

Hi Warren.

I looked it up and it should do the trick.
The 40 Amp SSR will handle and switch on/off the voltage from you home outlet no problem (110/120 V).

What you are seeing on Amazon is just like 70% of what is needed to build a complete working controller.

• You see the PID the controller (black part with display).
• The temp probe (thermocouple)
• the 40 Amp SSR (Switches power to MES on/off)
• the Heat Sink (dissipates heat from SSR so it doesn't overheat).

The way this all behaves is:

1. Plug complete built PID controller setup into home outlet
2. Plug rewired MES40 into PID
3. Put PID temp probe inside MES
4. Enter set temp into PID
5. PID will feed power on/off from home outlet to MES40 to hit and hold set temp

The way this wires up is represented the following image. Top image is the HOT wire and all the SSR signal switching, Bottom image is the Neutral wire which is simple:

View attachment 508019
This can take a little while to digest so please don't feel defeated. It becomes much clearer as you ask more questions and digest it more and more :)

I hope this info helps :)

Also adding a grounding diagram example so grounding isn't missed:

 

[tallbm]

It does look tight but if it fits, it fits.
The build looks professional to me.
I just touch up the scrapes with paint or Sharpie LOL.
Once you get to set point temp the SSR won't be getting too much use. I don't know if those little PIDs get hot or not.
I use a larger format PID in a much bigger enclosure for the controls I build.

This thread is making me want to build one for mine. :) I have most of the parts stuff laying around. I saw a MYPIN setup video today on you tube They're pretty popular.

Hey if you have an electric smoker I highly suggest you move to a PID controller. Eliminate those temp swings and you can do sausage, bacon, and jerky without any worry! I also changed out my safety rollout limit switch for one that allows me to do quick 325F smokes for poultry and get edible skin rather than rubber skin. I don't go over 4hrs on those smokes so I don't stress the insulation. Good thing the PID keeps such tight temps and doesn't have to run element full blast to hold temp :)

I looked around and the MyPin TA4 seemed to be the best, most hassle free, and accurately documented PID's of this type. Oh and the price was great too!
Read some funny behavior and quirks about some InkBirds that are out there along with stuff like the documentation was wrong about the hookups on the back.

I wanted no part of guessing and troubleshooting. So far this MyPin came through with flying colors and is easy to work... for a PID lol. No issues with documentation either. It went how I hoped it would just by following the docs and wiring. It all worked with no real issues :D

Has Celsius and Fahrenheit option. Has ability to offset the probe reading to correct it (mine was reading 5F low during boil test, fixed with offset). Is simple enough to apply set temp.

 

[river100]

Hey if you have an electric smoker I highly suggest you move to a PID controller. Eliminate those temp swings and you can do sausage, bacon, and jerky without any worry! I also changed out my safety rollout limit switch for one that allows me to do quick 325F smokes for poultry and get edible skin rather than rubber skin. I don't go over 4hrs on those smokes so I don't stress the insulation. Good thing the PID keeps such tight temps and doesn't have to run element full blast to hold temp :)

I looked around and the MyPin TA4 seemed to be the best, most hassle free, and accurately documented PID's of this type. Oh and the price was great too!
Read some funny behavior and quirks about some InkBirds that are out there along with stuff like the documentation was wrong about the hookups on the back.

I wanted no part of guessing and troubleshooting. So far this MyPin came through with flying colors and is easy to work... for a PID lol. No issues with documentation either. It went how I hoped it would just by following the docs and wiring. It all worked with no real issues :D

Has Celsius and Fahrenheit option. Has ability to offset the probe reading to correct it (mine was reading 5F low during boil test, fixed with offset). Is simple enough to apply set temp.

How are you tuning the PID ?
Auto or did you get some starter settings from someone?
In my field PID tuning is where all the fun is. I can't get anyone else to learn how to tune them. Most they will do is check cal and adjust the offset. And only one guy has done offsets so far.

 

[dernektambura]

There is my setup in kamado section how to tune PID...

 

[dernektambura]

Temperature PID probe setup + meat internal temperature PID setup in details...

 

[HalfSmoked]

Tallbm Thanks for the like I appreciate it.

I have a habit of selling myself short. I worked for 15 years installing new equipment on yachts and I have also rewired my home. Which was inspected and passed so I guess if I would put my mind to it I can do it. MAYBE

Warren