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Pastrami with a small flat??

danbono

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Hi All I'm going to try making my 1st pastrami from scratch, need a little help. I understand that the curing salt can be dangerous "IF" too much is used.
How much curing salt & water to brine for 2 lbs of a brisket flat. For Pastrami? I will also be using this in the brine. McCormick's Pickling Spice. Cinnamon, Allspice, Mustard Seed, Coriander, Bay Leaves, Ginger, Clove, Red Pepper, Black Pepper, Cardamom, Mace, and Sulfiting Agent.Cinnamon, Allspice, Mustard Seed, Coriander, Bay Leaves, Ginger, Clove, Red Pepper, Black Pepper, Cardamom, Mace, and Sulfiting Agent. Do I have also have to to add brown sugar& salt to the brine?
Thanks Dan
PS I have full 10 packer Pastrami is just an experiment,the rest is headed for the smoker.
 

thirdeye

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You certainly have an assortment of spices to add. Just curious how you arrived at that combination, and do you have a feel for amounts of each? Also what is a Sulfiting Agent?

The correct way to make a curing brine is.... weigh the meat, weigh the liquid and all the ingredients. Use cure#1 at a rate of 1.13 grams per pound of meat and mix. This puts you in the 165 PPM ballpark. I have never made a curing brine without salt and sugar, but I have used low percentages for both, say 1%.

Another option is using 1 gallon of Pop's brine, and adding your ingredients to that.
 

smokerjim

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if you use pop's brine it's 1 tablespoon of cure per gallon that is on the low side of saftey., with 1/2-1 cup salt, cup of brown sugar and cup of white sugar, you could adjust amounts. don't know if that helps any.
 

danbono

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You certainly have an assortment of spices to add. Just curious how you arrived at that combination, and do you have a feel for amounts of each? Also what is a Sulfiting Agent?

The correct way to make a curing brine is.... weigh the meat, weigh the liquid and all the ingredients. Use cure#1 at a rate of 1.13 grams per pound of meat and mix. This puts you in the 165 PPM ballpark. I have never made a curing brine without salt and sugar, but I have used low percentages for both, say 1%.

Another option is using 1 gallon of Pop's brine, and adding your ingredients to that.
Hi Spice combination Is McCormicks Pickling spice.. OK so the total meat & water is 6lbs . 6 x1.13=6.78 grams. Sugar& Kosher salt 1%x6=6 grams each.? 6 grams =1.3 teaspoons. Doesn't sound like enough??
Sulfiting Agent> Sulfiting Agents aren't equivalent to cure. That is an anti caking agent that spice companies use that prevents their spices from sticking together.
Thanks Dan
 
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danbono

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if you use pop's brine it's 1 tablespoon of cure per gallon that is on the low side of saftey., with 1/2-1 cup salt, cup of brown sugar and cup of white sugar, you could adjust amounts. don't know if that helps any.
Hi 1 tablespoon cure per gallon. Meat & water =6 lbs.. WOW 6 tablespoons. Sound a lot?
Thanks Dan
 

thirdeye

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Hi Spice combination Is McCormicks Pickling spice.. OK so the total meat & water is 6lbs . 6 x1.13=6.78 grams. Sugar& Kosher salt 1%x6=6 grams each.? 6 grams =1.3 teaspoons. Doesn't sound like enough??
Thanks Dan
We know you have a 3 pound roast.
It looks like you are using 1.5 quarts of water, right?? And this is adequate to cover the roast?

Meat and water weight is 6 lbs. Now you need to add the weighs of the salt, sugar (12 grams) and the remaining signature seasonings you plan to use. This might put your pound weight at 6.06 pounds. Then multiply 6.06 X 1.13 grams to calculate the amount of Cure #1. In this example, 6.8 grams of Cure #1, so your calc looks right.

Hi 1 tablespoon cure per gallon. Meat & water =6 lbs.. WOW 6 tablespoons. Sound a lot?
Thanks Dan
No, not 6 tablespoons.

Pop's brine is a fixed concentration. The recipe is 1 heaping tablespoon (20 grams) of cure per gallon of water, this is your base cure. Add salt, sugar & seasonings and you are done. You don't calculate for meat weight, water weight or spice weight.

Going back to the calculation from the above post.... If you are using 1.5 quarts of water, this is ~1/3 of a gallon, and you need 6.8 grams of Cure #1. So, 1 gallon would use 20.4 grams of cure (6.8 X 3) This aligns with the 21 grams of Cure #1 that Pop's brine calls for.
 

smokerjim

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Hi 1 tablespoon cure per gallon. Meat & water =6 lbs.. WOW 6 tablespoons. Sound a lot?
Thanks Dan
what thirdeye said, no need to weigh meat with pop's brine, and it's only 1 heaping tablespoon per gallon, just make sure you have enough brine to cover meat. measure the thicket part of roast and brine for 1 day for every 1/4 inch plus 2 days. so a piece of meat 2 inches thick would soak for 10 days. you could also inject the brine to help speed it up some.
 

danbono

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Hi All The flat is 2" thick, so I need a 10 day soak. Cure 6.8 grams is enough for 1.5 quarts of water? Sugar & Kosher salt @ 6 grams calculations sound OK?
Thanks Dan
 

chopsaw

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If you use Pop's brine it makes it easy . Especially for a first time .
 

thirdeye

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Hi All The flat is 2" thick, so I need a 10 day soak. Cure 6.8 grams is enough for 1.5 quarts of water? Sugar & Kosher salt @ 6 grams calculations sound OK?
Thanks Dan
I think you are light on the salt and sugar, and I would use the injection option, I even inject my non-curing brines. Personally, I use a slightly modified version of Pop's Brine which is the 'sweet spot' for my tastes. I'll post it below, but first is a snip from one of Pop's posts once he started experimenting with a lower salt version. Note that the brine calls for white and brown sugar. As long as you do not change the amount of Cure #1, you can change up the amounts of salt and sugar.

Pop's Brine
For every 1 gallon of water (consider bottled water), add:

1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet) (1/2 cup would be a good start)
1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda
1 cup brown sugar or Splenda brown sugar mix
1 heaping Tbsp cure #1 pink salt (20g)
Stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in.
Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.) If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc. These times can be extended as over-curing will not begin for 30 to 40 days, and the result would be mushy meat.
=================
Pop’s Brine (Modified version by thirdeye)
1 GALLON of water
125 grams canning salt
25 grams white sugar
25 grams brown sugar
20 grams Cure #1 (heaping tablespoon)
Black pepper
 
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SmokinAl

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Well I gotta jump in here & say that a dry cured pastrami has a better texture & flavor than a wet brine. Use this calculator to determine the correct amounts of salt, sugar, & cure #1.
Then you can add whatever spices you like, I usually just add pickling spice, it has everything in it.
Good luck,
Al
 

chef jimmyj

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I like Pop's Brine for Ham and C.Bacon, but find it too sweet for Belly Bacon and Beef.
The numbers above looks good. If the total weight of the Meat and Liquid is used in the calculation for Cure, the Amount of Liquid is really a matter of choice. The liquid quantity can be, No Liquid (Dry Rubbed), 1 Cup or 100 Cups, just use the correct weight of Liquid in the calculation.
Example...In Al's Dry Cure method. The meat is rubbed with a Calculated amount of Cure Ingredients, bagged and the only Liquid is what leaches from the meat. Turning and massaging gives a uniform contact. Same would apply for 1 Cup of added Water, bagged and massaged. Or 100 Cups of Water covering the meat in a Bucket. In each case the meat equalizes at the calculated ppm of Cure #1...JJ
 

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