My Bacon not like 'Commercial' Bacon

[Cody_Mack]

Like DougE and indaswamp said. Very easy to do for dry rub. This is 1 of 2 reasons why I like equilibrium cure best, the fact you can precisely target, hit, and replicate exact salt levels. The 2nd reason is why I pretty much HAVE to use it vs. Gradient brines: you can let it go 5 or 10 days long and it will never get saltier than your planned total. I go on trips away from home sometimes 5 days, so I can't oversalt and pull the meat at the exact right time for correct saltiness. (that method is faster due to higher salt concentrations, but timing is key and my work can't support it).

If you're intested in equilibrium brining, go read genuineideas.com and diggingdogfarm.com for nice calculators and info.
----extra info on other exact salt method---
You can also pump inject an exact weight of cure/brine into meat, usually 10% meat weight is used as meat will hold that. Then you calculate the correct amount of salt and sugar and cure#1 to be in that water...it is a much more complex and unforgiving method as the brine and cure is so strong, accurate weight before and after must be adhered to. Here is an example:
1kg meat. 10% pump is 100g water. Total cure is calculated only for the meat, not meat plus water, so for bacon 1.9g. Say 2% salt, again we will use just meat as we expect the 10% water to be evaporated during smoking, 20g. And 2% sugar, 20g. Fast pumped bacon like this must also have sodium erythorbate in it to convert nitrites fast since it is made, smoked and to market in a day. Mix salt, sugar, cure, and erythorbate in boiled water, let cool. Inject it to meat, weigh meat before at 1kg and after to ensure 1.14kg (water plus the 42g salt/sugar/cure). There is a limit for salt in solution, think its 26% so we're getting close. Usually extra brine at same ratio is made, then you just pump right amount and no extra into meat. They actually make brine perfectly so 100g has correct amounts, not my examples 142g, but you can see that is even more hard calculations. Marianski's books detail it, but you can see it's not as easy though it is extremely fast and exact, so most commercial bacon is made this way. Disclaimer, I don't do fast pumped so calcs might be slightly off but you get idea, book reading required on this method. But calcs are for the nitrite really, nothing stops you from adding extra salt on outside of this method.

---gradient method, lots of salt plus timing--
Nothing wrong with this and works great and fast, IF you can be disciplined about curing meat exact same time always. You'll easily be able to then decide how to tweak salt next time. There is a minimum cure penetration time, then after that it's just getting saltier til the saltiness time you like. Usually a dry rub in a salt box or similar. 2nd fastest method. Just not time-forgiving or accurate enough for my needs.

Thanks zwiller . Gonna try injection also. Also want to do some hams with shoulders.

 

[indaswamp]

What's the highest ambient you feel good (safe) about when cold smoking?

70*F (with bacon)...but prefer it 50-60*F

 

[Brokenhandle]

Should say...since you mentioned (safe) cold smoking temps...if cured properly, any temp is safe for cold smoking, or any type of smoking. Anything other than that is just personal preference.

Ryan

 

[Fueling Around]

Would you consider this to be bacon you could eat?
...
Buckboard is really good if the fat distribution is good.

Much better than my attempts. I cut the wrong side of the butt

 

[DougE]

Should say...since you mentioned (safe) cold smoking temps...if cured properly, any temp is safe for cold smoking, or any type of smoking. Anything other than that is just personal preference.

Ryan

I think the question may have been more along the line of what ambient temp is too high to cold smoke at, not so much safety. But I may have misunderstood.

 

[Brokenhandle]

I think the question may have been more along the line of what ambient temp is too high to cold smoke at, not so much safety. But I may have misunderstood.

I just read his post again, where he mentioned safe cold smoking temps...if cured properly there is no unsafe temp to cold smoke at. His wife is not wanting anything to do with it from the comments he made to her. There is cold smoking, warm smoking, hot smoking bacon. Unless I missed something is there any difference besides personal preference?

Ryan

 

[SmokinEdge]

Should say...since you mentioned (safe) cold smoking temps...if cured properly, any temp is safe for cold smoking, or any type of smoking. Anything other than that is just personal preference.

Ryan

Not exactly.

nitrite is not a “cure all” for bacteria. Some bacteria is not effected by nitrite, and all bacteria start to really thrive at about our body temp, just north of that bacteria go bonkers in reproduction. So keep the cold smoke 80F or lower, if warm smoking in the low 100’s then figure on a hot smoke finish to a safe IT, don’t play in that danger zone with less than 3% salt and even then it’s not advisable. Stay safe.

 

[DougE]

I just read his post again, where he mentioned safe cold smoking temps...if cured properly there is no unsafe temp to cold smoke at. His wife is not wanting anything to do with it from the comments he made to her. There is cold smoking, warm smoking, hot smoking bacon. Unless I missed something is there any difference besides personal preference?

Ryan

My bad, Maybe I was thinking of a previous post.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Not exactly.

nitrite is not a “cure all” for bacteria. Some bacteria is not effected by nitrite, and all bacteria start to really thrive at about our body temp, just north of that bacteria go bonkers in reproduction. So keep the cold smoke 80F or lower, if warm smoking in the low 100’s then figure on a hot smoke finish to a safe IT, don’t play in that danger zone with less than 3% salt and even then it’s not advisable. Stay safe.

WTF? So everything I've been taught here about safely curing meats is now not correct???

Ryan

 

[DougE]

Curing bacon safely doesn't mean it's shelf stable as in you can just chuck it on the counter and it'll be fine. The salt content isn't that high and the PH isn't that low. The low PH and high salt content is mainly what makes salami/salumi safe to dry at the time/temps it's done at.

 

[Brokenhandle]

I'm done with it

 

[SmokinEdge]

WTF? So everything I've been taught here about safely curing meats is now not correct???

Ryan

Whoa there Ryan. Everything is good, it’s just that context gets lost and things get blurred Over time. Temperature absolutely matters and the time the meat is there, salt percentage matters also. We have sort of hybrid some of the food safety rules to fit our needs or wants. We get by because of refrigeration, but playing in the “danger zone” is still just that. Bacteria grow rapidly in that zone , especially from about 100-130F range, nitrite buys us some extra time but really you need to cold smoke below 80F or role the warm/hot smoke and get it to final internal temp. Or you need fermentation to be active to acidify the meat while it dries.

There is way too much of a blur between curing something like bacon and making salami.

 

[TNJAKE]

WTF? So everything I've been taught here about safely curing meats is now not correct???

Ryan

You can't cold smoke for long periods above spoilage temps. Cure protects against some bacteria but not against spoilage. You shouldn't feel comfortable cold smoking at 90° for more than a couple hours unless you add ice to lower meat temp

 

[Brokenhandle]

Whoa there Ryan. Everything is good, it’s just that context gets lost and things get blurred Over time. Temperature absolutely matters and the time the meat is there, salt percentage matters also. We have sort of hybrid some of the food safety rules to fit our needs or wants. We get by because of refrigeration, but playing in the “danger zone” is still just that. Bacteria grow rapidly in that zone , especially from about 100-130F range, nitrite buys us some extra time but really you need to cold smoke below 80F or role the warm/hot smoke and get it to final internal temp. Or you need fermentation to be active to acidify the meat while it dries.

There is way too much of a blur between curing something like bacon and making salami.

Is this thread about salami or bacon? Yes it's about bacon...so stop confusing the OP.

Ryan

 

[SmokinEdge]

Is this thread about salami or bacon? Yes it's about bacon...so stop confusing the OP.

Ryan

No Sir, I’m talking about food safety in general. Not blurring any lines.

 

[thirdeye]

Guys, here's another perspective.... We add Cure #1 not to kill bacteria spores but because Cure #1 slows the live bacteria's ability to multiply when the meat is outside the fridge and in our smoker. We also have some additional salt working for us too.

That said, when using temperature and time in your favor, you can safely cold smoke, or cool smoke, or even warm smoke bacon for hours at a time, followed by 8 to 12 hours of resting in the fridge. As I mentioned above, I like several cycles of smoke followed by refrigerated rest, which is perfectly safe. And looking at the chart above (which is for un-cured meat) you can see that 60° to 90°F is a playground for bacteria, BUT Cure #1 (and the additional salt we use when curing) adds more protection against the 'doubling times' shown**. Notice that as bacon temps rise above 90° and pass from the red zone and enter the yellow zone, live bacteria begins to die off. Above 140° bacteria spores don't die, but no live bacteria will live. Meaning bacon smoke-cooked to 145° still needs to be stored in the fridge.

** How much protection does Cure #1 and additional salt add to the doubling times? For example at 90°F, the doubling time for un-cured bacon would be 30 minutes. I honestly don't know how long that time would be extended when smoking cured and salted meat, so I prefer to cold smoke at 50°F or lower. I'd be lying if I said I've never cold smoked any meat at higher temps... but I just shorten the smoking time to maybe 4-hour cycles.

 

[Cody_Mack]

Is this thread about salami or bacon? Yes it's about bacon...so stop confusing the OP.

Ryan

It's ok, Ryan. I am understanding all they are saying. Safety is extremely important to me; thus the baby steps in this new-found hobby.

Rick

 

[GaryHibbert]

I must be different (so I've beeView attachment 648065n told). I love our "home-made" bacon. We haven't bought store bacon for a couple years. The only need is for ABT's since my smoked bacon isn't thin enough to "wrap".

Now that's what I like--MEATY bacon.
Gary

 

[GaryHibbert]

Cody_Mack , this is a great thread... and loads of advise from trusted sources. I agree that time is very important, so maybe explore that.

I prefer longer cure times (equilibrium method), around 14 days. Next, I like 2 or 3 days of equalization (resting time) before smoking. Then I will do 6 to 8 hours of cold smoking, returning to the fridge. And I repeat this for 2 or 3 days. Now comes mellowing time... for me, this is another 2 or 3 days in the fridge before slicing and packaging. So, 20-something days start to finish.

For cold smoking I like my ambient temps to be in the 50°'s or less, and I've cold smoked plenty of bacon when the temps are in the 30°'s. And at this particular 'flavor point', I have used a hot smoke to finish in the mid 140°'s, but I prefer a ready-to-cook product.

Check out this video about Benton's bacon method, not that I'm advocating a salt only curing method, but it's a good example of how time is a valuable part of their process.

Great video. Thanks
Gary

 

[SmokinEdge]

To be clear of my contribution.

We have lost a lot of context here on this forum. Things like salt, nitrite, meat PH or acidity, and AW (available water) are all safety hurdles for food safety. We barrow from the old ways to create cured meats today, but we have refrigeration today which is a huge safety hurdle the old timers didn’t have, but microbiology is still just as dangerous today as it was a thousand years ago, we just can manage it easier today than then.

After WWII meats in Europe were salted and cured for preservation, salt was on average 3-4%. They smoked and dried these meats for sort term and long term preservation, this is a specific process. We barrow from that old process but inject refrigeration and the invention of sodium nitrite. They only had potassium nitrate, a completely different animal.

Bacteria have not changed since that time, they are predictable and still just as active today. Some are beneficial but some are pathogenic. These include Clostridium botulism, Bacillus cereus, or Staphylococcus aureus can all infect food with toxins. We can stop botulism (the most lethal toxin) by using sodium nitrite, but the other bacteria are not as effected, though not as dangerous they still pose a heath risk, and nitrite does not stop them from making their toxins, and thoroughly cooking the food does not kill the toxin if present. So we must use high salt concentration- 2.5-4% salt to help hold them at bay, or we use low temperature and can use less salt along with nitrite to control these bad bacteria. Trouble is that most here enjoy 1.5-2% salt. This is not strong enough to control these bacteria. So we must keep temps low as to not encourage bacteria growth, or we need to go hot smoke and get over 140F in about 4 hours. This dance in the middle, temperature between 90-130F is a very bad and dangerous place to “cold smoke” meat. It’s just not smart when salt percentage is low, don’t do this.

Cold smoking, in the old way, was a preservation method. This was a safe environment to place cured meat and dry it down, lowering AW. Most bad bacteria are anaerobic (no oxygen) but they need sufficient water availability. So by slowly drying cured meat in smoke they were able to lower AW and make meats preserve safely for longer, but the process was all about drying, the smoke flavor was a side benefit, and the smoke on the meat helped to stop mold growth another side benefit, but smoke was never the focus, it was all about the drying. This drying produces weight loss, which means salt concentration got higher. It’s all food safety.

Today we cold smoke for flavor only and largely disregard food safety while doing this. Most European countries limit cold smoking to 71F but generally otherwise accepted that about 80F is acceptable. The meat is generally smoked in about 4 hour sessions with rest in between and temperature drop down to refrigerated temps. (This process is done in winter months) over night then smoked again for 4ish hours and rested. This could go on for 14 days. While this process is happening the meat is also drying, this is key to understand the old way. Today you can cold smoke 4ish hours then rest in the refrigerator then go again, see how this works?

What we call “Warm smoking” 90-120F is a dangerous place to play for very long for those of us using less than 3-4% salt. We can be there for a couple hours but then we need to ramp up to hot smoke, 130-170F, and finish the meat in a 5ish hour window, not go back into the fridge and do again the next day. This is how I do my meats, I live in a very arid climate and smoking long is difficult because the meat dries much to fast and is hard to maintain humidity. Don’t “cold smoke” meat in that low 100’s temp zone then refrigerate and repeat. You may get by for a while but you only have to screw up once and people get sick, just don’t do it. Hold to the cold smoke temps of 32-80F or push on up into hot smoke 130-170F and finish with the correct IT for your meat type In a timely fashion.

Getting of my soap box now.