Increased water and fat content to make hotdogs

[slavikborisov]

After talking to some people and basically getting nowhere on the internet I'm going to experiment my hotdog recipe with more water and pork backfat.
my question is if I still use the same 1.8% salt but i double or triple the water from my normal 10% of the meat block to 20% or even 30% will that dilute my flavor profile as far as salt and other seasonings go? Im think i will be fine but i just want to make sure. In essence i am increasing the total yield but i don't want to under flavor it. my standard recipe was 30% fat and 10% water....my experiment is going to be 50% fat 30% water. Now i know this isnt ideal my its an Experiment solely to get a "softer bite"... thoughts? i will be using my champion juicer and running a higher amount of binder as well.

 

[SmokinEdge]

First question, what meat are you using? They all have varying abilities to absorb water in percentage to meat weight.

Emulsified sausage can easy run 30% water, but you need to figure that percentage on the meat weight without the fat weight. Fat absorbs little to no water and can actually mess up the emulsion. In reality, especially when using a high fat content, you should emulsify the lean to leaner meats first, adding seasoning and water, then emulsify the fat separately and incorporate to the meat. This can be huge on texture as well. When using something close to 80/20 meat it’s not as critical but higher fat 30-50% it’s huge. And remember if running 50/50 meat to fat only apply water to the meat weight not the fat.

 

[slavikborisov]

First question, what meat are you using? They all have varying abilities to absorb water in percentage to meat weight.

Emulsified sausage can easy run 30% water, but you need to figure that percentage on the meat weight without the fat weight. Fat absorbs little to no water and can actually mess up the emulsion. In reality, especially when using a high fat content, you should emulsify the lean to leaner meats first, adding seasoning and water, then emulsify the fat separately and incorporate to the meat. This can be huge on texture as well. When using something close to 80/20 meat it’s not as critical but higher fat 30-50% it’s huge. And remember if running 50/50 meat to fat only apply water to the meat weight not the fat.

I was going to do pork butt but now that you say that I’ll do the pork loin and add the back fat in separately

 

[slavikborisov]

My other question would be salt/flavor concentration as in technically my total
Batch weight is changing dramatically but my ratio of salt to meat block stays in that 1.8-2.0% rate …would I need to increase the salt to encompass the fat and meat and just not worry about the additional water ?

 

[SmokinEdge]

My other question would be salt/flavor concentration as in technically my total
Batch weight is changing dramatically but my ratio of salt to meat block stays in that 1.8-2.0% rate …would I need to increase the salt to encompass the fat and meat and just not worry about the additional water ?

I would run 2% salt (in your case) to account for that 30% water gain. Keep in mind that if you smoke these you will lose up to 10% moisture (water) so it’s over all not a huge deal breaker. I prefer not to run that high of water percentage because the product always tastes watery to me even though the salt may be on point. I also find it not necessary to run high water percentage in emulsified sausages to get a better product. Technique is a bigger factor than just adding more of certain ingredients.

Next question, what are you trying to change in the current texture of your hotdogs?

 

[slavikborisov]

I would run 2% salt (in your case) to account for that 30% water gain. Keep in mind that if you smoke these you will lose up to 10% moisture (water) so it’s over all not a huge deal breaker. I prefer not to run that high of water percentage because the product always tastes watery to me even though the salt may be on point. I also find it not necessary to run high water percentage in emulsified sausages to get a better product. Technique is a bigger factor than just adding more of certain ingredients.

Next question, what are you trying to change in the current texture of your hotdogs?

They were just really dense and a tough bite I did them last year and flavor was great but the bite just wasn’t there…. Now granted I believe I mixed alittle too long as I was using the triple grind method on an 1/8” plate and I did not separate the meat from fat… I had plenty of protein extraction that’s for sure I poached them
In cellulose casing and after trying them the bite was way to dense for me… I’m looking for closer to commercial hotdog as far as bite goes… this year I will be doing a double grind and right into the champion juicer ….i might end up trying to recipes one to the extreme and one in the middle try to find a middle ground

 

[indaswamp]

Following...post up your results..

 

[SmokinEdge]

They were just really dense and a tough bite I did them last year and flavor was great but the bite just wasn’t there…. Now granted I believe I mixed alittle too long as I was using the triple grind method on an 1/8” plate and I did not separate the meat from fat… I had plenty of protein extraction that’s for sure I poached them
In cellulose casing and after trying them the bite was way to dense for me… I’m looking for closer to commercial hotdog as far as bite goes… this year I will be doing a double grind and right into the champion juicer ….i might end up trying to recipes one to the extreme and one in the middle try to find a middle ground

Yes sounds like you over worked the meat, this will make it rubbery. With the Champion just do a simple double grind final through the 1/8 plate then through the juicer. But again if you want to go 30-50% fat then separate it do the meat emulsion first then process the fat and mix in. If 80/20 it’s not as big of an issue and you can run it all through the juicer. I bought the dual grind head from LEM to single pass through the 1/8 plate then through the juicer. That juicer works the meat a lot. Protein extraction pretty much happens in that stage so no reason to over work the meat.

 

[Fueling Around]

Following, too.

...
I’m looking for closer to commercial hotdog as far as bite goes…
...

Commercial hot-dogs are all over the board on bite.
My favorite used to be Costco dinner franks (I believe they still sell them in the $1.50 combo) which are a denser bite probably owing to the 100% beef than say a cheap inexpensive fun dog that is multiple meats and fillers.
Hotdogs will be my next summer venture. I love my homemade bagel dogs, but commercial hotdogs have 3 days worth of sodium for my diet.

 

[JckDanls 07]

cellulose casing and after trying them the bite was way to dense for me…

Try natural sheep for a softer bite...

<<< (sticking his thumb out).. Yall pick me up... I'm in

 

[slavikborisov]

Following...post up your results..

Will do

 

[slavikborisov]

Yes sounds like you over worked the meat, this will make it rubbery. With the Champion just do a simple double grind final through the 1/8 plate then through the juicer. But again if you want to go 30-50% fat then separate it do the meat emulsion first then process the fat and mix in. If 80/20 it’s not as big of an issue and you can run it all through the juicer. I bought the dual grind head from LEM to single pass through the 1/8 plate then through the juicer. That juicer works the meat a lot. Protein extraction pretty much happens in that stage so no reason to over work the meat.

Yeah I have the double grind attachment and plan on using that … would you recommend grinding the fat to 1/8” and throwing it through the juicer senate from the meat and then mixing it? Or process the meat,season, water go through the juicer and then mix in the 1/8” ground fat by hand?

 

[indaswamp]

emulsification occurs when the fat and meat are macerated together; i.e. the proteins envelope the fine particles of fat and water giving a homogeneous product that is locked in during the cooking process.

 

[slavikborisov]

Separted the fat from the meat here what it looked like before going into the juicer… I put the seasoning on the meat mixed it, then added half the water with half the binder mixed alittle bit then added the rest of the water and binder I’m using circle s binder for this batch…it was alittle soupy but tighten right up when I added the fat… I did 50% fat and 30% water gonna cook / smoke tomorrow… planning on poaching the hotdogs and I also did a batch of kelbasi that will be in the smoker

 

[SmokinEdge]

Does not look like you emulsified the the meat first? The whole point is to make the meat emulsion with spices and water/ice chips first then emulsify the fat separately and mix it all together. This is because the fat can smear and ruin the emulsion. I really think your biggest problem though in the beginning was over grinding the meat and getting a tough sausage. That said once you up the fat ratio the lean and leaner meat need to emulsify alone then emulsify the fat and mix in. Everything must stay very cold all through the process, the juicer is good in that it doesn’t creat much if any heat.

 

[slavikborisov]

Does not look like you emulsified the the meat first? The whole point is to make the meat emulsion with spices and water/ice chips first then emulsify the fat separately and mix it all together. This is because the fat can smear and ruin the emulsion. I really think your biggest problem though in the beginning was over grinding the meat and getting a tough sausage. That said once you up the fat ratio the lean and leaner meat need to emulsify alone then emulsify the fat and mix in. Everything must stay very cold all through the process, the juicer is good in that it doesn’t creat much if any heat.

Oh I misunderstood so your saying run the meat with the spices in it through the juicer then run the fat through the juicer then hand mix them together

 

[SmokinEdge]

Oh I misunderstood so your saying run the meat with the spices in it through the juicer then run the fat through the juicer then hand mix them together

Correct. This is only necessary with the high fat content. The meat can emulsify and take on water but fat will take on almost no water and can ruin the emulsion if not careful.

How many times did you grind this time?

 

[slavikborisov]

Correct. This is only necessary with the high fat content. The meat can emulsify and take on water but fat will take on almost no water and can ruin the emulsion if not careful.

How many times did you grind this time?

I put my dual grind attachment on and just a single pass through for both meat and fat… wel I guess I will see tomorrow weather it’s a complete mess or success

 

[slavikborisov]

I did a dual grind on meat then added spice water and binder and mixed it throughly…..then I did a dual grind on the fat … once I had the meat mixture soupy I added the fat and mixed by hand… then I ran the mixture you see in the picture through the juicer and stuffed in casings

 

[SmokinEdge]

Your grind looks very cold and premium. I’m betting you will have good results this time since you had a single grind. Just keep it cold before going through the juicer and I’m betting you will be fine.