Hot dogs

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Hijack73

Master of the Pit
Original poster
Aug 9, 2020
1,093
1,204
SC, just a smidge from Charlotte
I'm not much on hot dogs (because who likes eating lips, colons, udders and other meat scraps) but someone I love is crazy about them. Since I bought a stuffer - I'm sure I'll end up there eventually.

I know most of you guys use an juicer or a processor to emulsify hot dog mixes, but I have seen on les internyets that decent hot dogs can be made with just a grinder and a number of passes though the fine plate. I think texturally I might prefer a hot dog that wasn't just solidified emulsified meat. Not chunky, not creamy either.

My other problem with hot dogs is nutmeg. I see plenty of recommendations to use mace (which I'll admit, I do not know what mace tastes like) rather than nutmeg. Nutmeg for me always leaves a very lingering aftertaste that I do not care for. If anyone knows what I mean - does mace do that same thing? My pallet is kind of weird. I am that one guy who can't stand cilantro, has a problem with WOF, and I hate the flavor of beer and most alcohol (and I say that as someone who could once outdrink any 2 people) and had to quit smoking because one day I woke up and discovered that cigarettes suddenly tasted terrible (which was about the same point in my life where I had to quit drinking just because I couldn't stand the taste any more)

There are pretty much only 3 hotdogs I'll eat. Nathans, Boars Head, and Dietz and Watson. I get zero aftertaste from them, and they aren't as........ I dunno how to say it any other way..... nearly as slimy in the mouth.

So gents and non-gents, after all that word salad above - can I make a less slimy hotdog without completely emulsifying but it still be a hot dog? And how similar to nutmeg is mace? I'll pick up some next time I'm in a store but if anyone knows what I meant as far as the aftertaste, does mace do the same thing?

Thinking I'll fire up the grinder and see just how far I can grind down a pound of chuck with multiple passes though a fine plate. I know I'll have to cool it down after each pass probably. I grind beef usually twice but often the first pass is though a wagon wheel plate (what I call it) and pass 2 though a coarse plate and I don't cool it down between passes. 5-6 lbs takes maybe 3-4 minutes with my #12 and it doesn't really smear fat that way.
 
You can absolutely make dogs and bologna with just grinding. I would grind x 3. One through a course plate, then twice through the 1/8” plate, keeping it cold all the way through.

As to mace, I use it in all my dog and bologna. It has a much cleaner and brighter flavor in meat than nutmeg which I do not use. But some spice flavors are very much subjective, but I think you should try mace. Keep it around .5%
 
You can absolutely make dogs and bologna with just grinding. I would grind x 3. One through a course plate, then twice through the 1/8” plate, keeping it cold all the way through.

As to mace, I use it in all my dog and bologna. It has a much cleaner and brighter flavor in meat than nutmeg which I do not use. But some spice flavors are very much subjective, but I think you should try mace. Keep it around .5%
Wandering around the subforum for a straightforward hot dog recipe. Dear SmokinEdge SmokinEdge could you guide me to find the right thread? Thanks in advance.

PS: Haven't had the time to put my hands on whole pork leg for the ham project.
 
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Definitely agree. I think a grind tastes better, in fact.

Not a plain-old hot dog, but I've been making batches of SmokinEdge SmokinEdge 's hot link recipe and I heartily recommend it https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/hot-links.317180/. I think you could just tweak the grind finer and finer to make it more or less hot-dog like.

It's not emulsified like a hot dog, but it still seems to be in the same category and I personally think the texture of the grind makes it taste better.
 
Wandering around the subforum for a straightforward hot dog recipe. Dear SmokinEdge SmokinEdge could you guide me to find the right thread? Thanks in advance.

PS: Haven't had the time to put my hands on whole pork leg for the ham project.
Here is a link with my hot dog recipe, it’s in post #8 just scroll down. Use whatever meat you like, I usually use straight pork but mix meats sometimes. My recipe doesn’t change though.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/rings-and-wieners.326206/
 
I've never made hotdogs or baloney, or any sausage that need to be emulsified for that matter. I would think a food processor would work fine for emulsifying.
 
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Wandering around the subforum for a straightforward hot dog recipe. Dear SmokinEdge SmokinEdge could you guide me to find the right thread? Thanks in advance.

PS: Haven't had the time to put my hands on whole pork leg for the ham project.
Get ready to go on a journey finding a recipe you really like hahahaha.

I've never tried SmokinEdge SmokinEdge 's but I went through about 4 or 5 different ones or so that I found from all kinds of places and was never very satisfied. I found a store bought seasoning that blew my socks off so if you end up going on a hot dog recipe/seasoning journey reach out and I can add smore store bought seasonings to the list that I like :D


I've never made hotdogs or baloney, or any sausage that need to be emulsified for that matter. I would think a food processor would work fine for emulsifying.
I've done all of that and honestly I prefer it not being the smooth emulsified texture.
I found that mixing a lot of the time gets me quite a smoother emulsified'ish texture more than I even intend. It's not an issue but sometimes I want a courser texture but have problems getting that due to thorough mixing (by hand or with a paddle) that seems to just continue breaking it all down.

The main thing is my franks (what hot dogs used to be), bologna, and sausage all come out tasting amazing with no issues so I happily discovered I do not care/want/need it to ever be the super smooth, spongey, emulsified texture :D
 
SmokinEdge SmokinEdge is an excellent recipe ive used the original and modified it with all very tasty results!! he is also my go to guide on troubleshooting texture on hotdogs!

do not over mix and keep the fat and meat cold are the most important things
 
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I made a bunch of hotdogs two years ago after watching a Chud's BBQ video and they are still sitting in the freezer. I didn't use enough fat and some of it smeared on me, because I didn't rechill between grinds. He used a stand mixer to try to emulsify the sausage. I almost killed my wife's kitchenaid. I really don't suggest that. I'm scared to try it again. The main problem with the hotdogs was the texture sucked. If you screw anything up with them you don't really know until you've done a ton of work and wasted your time. I think next time, I'll try a triple pass through the grinder.
 
I made a bunch of hotdogs two years ago after watching a Chud's BBQ video and they are still sitting in the freezer. I didn't use enough fat and some of it smeared on me, because I didn't rechill between grinds. He used a stand mixer to try to emulsify the sausage. I almost killed my wife's kitchenaid. I really don't suggest that. I'm scared to try it again. The main problem with the hotdogs was the texture sucked. If you screw anything up with them you don't really know until you've done a ton of work and wasted your time. I think next time, I'll try a triple pass through the grinder.
I'd recommend You give it a second chance.
I complained a Lot with My first wieners batch but in the end I was very happy with the results.

I just have a kitchen aid and a small Food processor. Here's what worked for me:

♦️Three 3mm grinds (freeze and regrind is a must)
♦️Separate lean and fat until the very end
♦️Apply salt and cure to the lean after the 1st grind
♦️Mix lean and fat (very cold) with the seasonings after the 3rd grind.
♦️Patiently emulsify in a Food processor adding the water in the form of crushed ice. Do not over process.
♦️Stuff tight, smoke, cook in water, cold shower.

I show You what I got with the KitchenAid and the processor. It is hard work...but very rewarding. Well planned work can compensate lack of equipement to a certain extent.
 

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I'd recommend You give it a second chance.
I complained a Lot with My first wieners batch but in the end I was very happy with the results.

I just have a kitchen aid and a small Food processor. Here's what worked for me:

♦️Three 3mm grinds (freeze and regrind is a must)
♦️Separate lean and fat until the very end
♦️Apply salt and cure to the lean after the 1st grind
♦️Mix lean and fat (very cold) with the seasonings after the 3rd grind.
♦️Patiently emulsify in a Food processor adding the water in the form of crushed ice. Do not over process.
♦️Stuff tight, smoke, cook in water, cold shower.

I show You what I got with the KitchenAid and the processor. It is hard work...but very rewarding. Well planned work can compensate lack of equipement to a certain extent.
Very nice work. But 3x through the grinder is enough, at that point the food processor is really not needed and really won’t change the final product, I’ve been there and done that. Your final product looks excellent though, very nice work.
 
IMO the hotdogs you mentioned you liked have very little or no coriander in them so my guess is its coriander, not mace or nutmeg that you are having issue with. I would substitute chili powder in place of the coriander in a recipe for a New York style hotdog and give that a try.
My 2 cents
 
IMO the hotdogs you mentioned you liked have very little or no coriander in them so my guess is its coriander, not mace or nutmeg that you are having issue with. I would substitute chili powder in place of the coriander in a recipe for a New York style hotdog and give that a try.
My 2 cents
I am very interested in your thoughts here. I've been buying and testing all sorts of bologna, hotdogs, weiners etc. My problem is that very few spices are required to be labeled (garlic, paprika, mustard), and most just get lumped in as "flavoring", or "spices" on labels. So while my taste buds are very very good, I think, I can't be sure I'm identifying the spices correctly.

So, I agree with your assessment on NY style or Coney Island hotdog having a touch of chili or cayenne. And you may be correct about the coriander too. I'm specifically interested in your coriander and white pepper thoughts, and what brands might be good examples of which spice profiles.

Could you take a look at my current best recipe, and give me your thoughts on those spices? I'd say this is close to SmokinEdge bologna and hotdog recipe somewhat, though I bumped the sweetener a lot. Thx!
 
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Mace - more fruity and softer
Nutmeg - stronger, less fruity, more pungent

And what is WOF?
Warmed over flavor. The only way I can combat it is to cook meats to death if I'm going to reheat. I'm perfectly fine most of the time with a pot roast (beef) or anything I smoke, because typically long cook times lessen or negate it completely. If you grilled up a nice boneless breast to 150, and tried to serve it to me the next day, I'd have to politely decline, same with a chop that isn't cooked to death or even a loin roast taken to 150ish. It has this rotten flavor, and odor up in the nose/sinuses as I eat it is even worse.

I overcook all sorts of meats on purpose just so I can eat the leftovers. Grannies near crunchy pork chops (we all had a granny that cooked until the crust was darn near chocolate colored lol) and chicken tenders are on that list.

boykjo boykjo - you may be on to something. As much as I love MY pastrami, I don't use coriander in the rub. I do use it in the brine. I despise cilantro, so that may add up.
 
So, I agree with your assessment on NY style or Coney Island hotdog having a touch of chili or cayenne. And you may be correct about the coriander too. I'm specifically interested in your coriander and white pepper thoughts, and what brands might be good examples of which spice profiles.
IMO the flavor profile for most hotdogs (like ballpark) are based off bologna recipe's where coriander is present. White pepper is just a matter of preference for me. White pepper tends to throw off a little more heat than black pepper but IMO black pepper is more flavorful. When trying the two different peppers in recipes I always tend to go back to the black pepper.
Sabretts, dietz and watson, and hebrew national IMO are your examples of the use of chili powders along with the staple garlic and onion powder. Chili powders have very little or no heat in a hot dog recipe and give off great flavors.
You can try different chili powders for different NY style hot dog profiles.
Hebrew national may have a touch of coriander but it changes its profile by using beef instead of pork.
I've learned that its harder to make a tasteful beef hot dog than a tasteful pork hot dog so I don't use beef much anymore in hot dogs. Try the same recipe using only beef and beef fat and then one with pork and pork fat and taste the difference. I bet the pork will come out on top. It does with the store bought hotdogs. Ballpark pork and chicken hotdog out flavors the all beef.
 
Great run down in post 17 . I agree that homemade is best with all pork . I do buy an all beef frank that we like .


hotdog without completely emulsifying but it still be a hot dog?
Yes . I use all pork butt and go one pass through the 1/8" plate . I have a mix " Weiner sausage " from TSM maker that's good . It has sodium erythorbate in it . It speeds the cure and sets the color , but also acts as an emulsifier . I also have it in bulk , and add it in when mixing from scratch .
These are made from spare rib and pork cushion trim .
One pass with 1/8" plate , seasoned and mixed by hand .
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Stuffed , smoked for color , then poached on the stove .
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Cross section , and because I was testing I also ripped one along the length .
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pretty much only 3 hotdogs I'll eat. Nathans, Boars Head, and Dietz and Watson.
I would suggest starting there . Look at the 3 you like and get the ingredient list from them .
As far as what brings the flavor . I went and looked online , but I don't know which variety you like . You might not get all the spices , but you will see sodium phosphate and sodium erythorbate . Both which goes towards texture .
 
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What's the reasoning on keeping meat and fat separate? It's really only doable if you have very lean meat and separate fat to start with. That's ideal but not always realistic for home cooks.
 
What's the reasoning on keeping meat and fat separate? It's really only doable if you have very lean meat and separate fat to start with. That's ideal but not always realistic for home cooks.
to keep the fat from smearing and to develop protein extraction. You need the proteins to wrap around the small fat and water particles for a good emulsion...or it can break.
 
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