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angryengineer
Newbie
Ok, so I am wondering what is the conventional wisdom surrounding phosphates and Disodium Inosinate & Disodium Guanylate. These are commonly found in pork “injections” and/or rubs that supposedly win contests. So my questions:
1) Are these ingredients healthy to eat?
2) Why don’t professional restaurant chefs use them and/or recommend them since they seem to be a leg up on the competition?
3) Do contest winning flavors align with what we really enjoy eating? (1 excellent bite versus a plate full)
Please know that I am not a food chemical nazi, rather just trying to understand additive “chemicals” vs other “natural ways”
1) Are these ingredients healthy to eat?
2) Why don’t professional restaurant chefs use them and/or recommend them since they seem to be a leg up on the competition?
3) Do contest winning flavors align with what we really enjoy eating? (1 excellent bite versus a plate full)
Please know that I am not a food chemical nazi, rather just trying to understand additive “chemicals” vs other “natural ways”
If you add salt to food, you are adding a chemical... If you add smoke to meats, you are adding chemicals... If you drink water, you are adding chemicals to your body...
If it makes the food taste better, use it... Chicken stock is full of chemicals... BBQ sauce, Soy sauce, Ketchup......
Read the link below...
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380894469_Long et al.pdf
...
If it makes the food taste better, use it... Chicken stock is full of chemicals... BBQ sauce, Soy sauce, Ketchup......
Read the link below...
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380894469_Long et al.pdf
...
Do you think apple cider (not vinegar) could be used instead of vegetable broth?
A lot of locals make apple cider around here. It is only pressed apple no preservatives or other junk (except the bugs that are in the apples) :D
A lot of locals make apple cider around here. It is only pressed apple no preservatives or other junk (except the bugs that are in the apples) :D
NO.... Acid screws up the action of cure... nitrite....
May I suggest you try the recipe AS-IS... Check the results... then alter it...
Fruit Juice pH Levels
Apples, oranges, grapes and cranberries are all moderately acidic. Cranberry juice is the most acidic, with an approximate pH value of 2.3 to 2.5. Grape juice has a pH of 3.3; apple juice has an approximate pH value of between 3.35 and 4; the pH of orange juice ranges from 3.3 to 4.2.
May I suggest you try the recipe AS-IS... Check the results... then alter it...
Fruit Juice pH Levels
Apples, oranges, grapes and cranberries are all moderately acidic. Cranberry juice is the most acidic, with an approximate pH value of 2.3 to 2.5. Grape juice has a pH of 3.3; apple juice has an approximate pH value of between 3.35 and 4; the pH of orange juice ranges from 3.3 to 4.2.
Thanks for the info. I have used this method in the past with success. I had seen someone else in this thread mentioned using apple juice so that it what made me think of cider.
Sorry for throwing this thread off track with the apple juice suggestion Dave. Honestly though, you (finally) took the bait. :p I wanted to know your opinion of the cure/juice combination. Thanks. I'll start another thread since this interests me. Last thing I will say apple juice/cider is crazy good injected in butt for PP.
My MIL ran pro kitchens, school, lodges, yacht club, and her go to for ham (her Easter ham was was veggie stock so I know it works well.
My MIL ran pro kitchens, school, lodges, yacht club, and her go to for ham (her Easter ham was was veggie stock so I know it works well.
Apple juice/ Cider is fine for pulled pork... The acid dissolves the meat.. if left too long, it may turn to mush.... Pulled pork doesn't have cure in it... it's' cooked to 200-205 ish for tenderness..... very different than trying to safely cure meat and prevent botulism at the same time, at home...
I'd check on this one.... NSF.... certified for treating drinking water... One member has used it in his meatloaf... Said it was the moistest meatloaf ever made.... It has lots of uses... Keep the addition, in meat, down to around 0.3-0.5% by weight....
Sodium Tripolyphosphate (2.5 lb) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Eco-Friendly Packaging, Helps Soften Water (Also available in 0.5 lb, 1 lb, 50 lb)
Product Features
Sodium Tripolyphosphate NSF/ANSI 60: Drinking Water Treatment Chemicals
Sodium Tripolyphosphate (2.5 lb) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Eco-Friendly Packaging, Helps Soften Water (Also available in 0.5 lb, 1 lb, 50 lb)
Product Features
Sodium Tripolyphosphate NSF/ANSI 60: Drinking Water Treatment Chemicals
I have info for adding to other stuff.... Lots of info on the internet... It's used world wide in food additions...
james211
Fire Starter
- Jun 10, 2015
- 31
- 19
Okay so here is what I did...
The ham (yes its raw, fresh, unbrined) was wrapped loosely in plastic wrap as I had the butcher cut it down for me. So I took the ham, shank end, placed it flat side down inside a 2.5g ziplock. From the open side of the ziplock I worked my way from the outside in and up to the top of the shank injecting brine in all directions and depths. Now I've sealed the bag and put it in the fridge.
Couple questions:
1. I could vacuum seal it if that would be beneficial at all, or do I just leave it in the ziplock? Do I need to worry about any air in the bag?
2. What determines the length of curing, your write up said 6 days to two weeks?
3. How did you determine the ratios of salts? Thankfully my cut was similar in size to your cut so the ratios worked out, but I'm curious.
4. Lastly, how do you know if your curing is completely successful?
The ham (yes its raw, fresh, unbrined) was wrapped loosely in plastic wrap as I had the butcher cut it down for me. So I took the ham, shank end, placed it flat side down inside a 2.5g ziplock. From the open side of the ziplock I worked my way from the outside in and up to the top of the shank injecting brine in all directions and depths. Now I've sealed the bag and put it in the fridge.
Couple questions:
1. I could vacuum seal it if that would be beneficial at all, or do I just leave it in the ziplock? Do I need to worry about any air in the bag?
2. What determines the length of curing, your write up said 6 days to two weeks?
3. How did you determine the ratios of salts? Thankfully my cut was similar in size to your cut so the ratios worked out, but I'm curious.
4. Lastly, how do you know if your curing is completely successful?
Last edited:
Loose bag is perfect... If you injected every 1.5", 6 days will work... two weeks is better....
If you read post#1, you will see where I started with a ~10# picnic ham... all injected stuff is based on the 10# weight... from the liquid to STPP, cure, salt and sugar.... The %'s are listed for the correct amounts....
If you read post#1, you will see where I started with a ~10# picnic ham... all injected stuff is based on the 10# weight... from the liquid to STPP, cure, salt and sugar.... The %'s are listed for the correct amounts....
james211
Fire Starter
- Jun 10, 2015
- 31
- 19
Thank you, really excited about this, and frankly quite nervous as well...
Out of curiosity is there any surefire way to know nothing went wrong? Or is smell the best bet?
I used your first post for injection recipe, I was just curious where the ratios came from in case I wanted to equate them out for larger or smaller amounts.
Out of curiosity is there any surefire way to know nothing went wrong? Or is smell the best bet?
I used your first post for injection recipe, I was just curious where the ratios came from in case I wanted to equate them out for larger or smaller amounts.
The ratios.... 1.1 grams per pound of cure#1 is from the USDA... That number makes meat about 150 ish Ppm nitrite.. The 1.75% salt and 1% sugar.... Those numbers come from many batches of sausage and bacon... adjusting the salt so you didn't know it was there and the pig flavor came through.. and the sugar, I got tired of sugar burning in the fry pan so I kept reducing it until...... the bacon didn't burn and yet, there was still enough sugar to offset the salty flavor in the bacon or sausage.. After doing extensive reading, seems others have come to the same conclusion on those numbers... They are a good starting point and can always be tweaked for one's personal taste.... Additional flavoring can be added in the form of spices and herbs, oils and extracts...
Hey Dave...my local grocer has ~20# fresh hams now!! I will be making one real soon!!!! I plan on following your recipe.
Nice. I use this on my 25+ hams and shoulders. You will love it, so easy and tasty. So what they charge?
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