are we doing a disservice to the newcomer ?

[cal1956]

every time  a newcomer posts a picture of what they have just cooked everyone raves about how great it looks

 i think we can do better, while everyone needs encouragement they also need the cold hard truth if we expect them to improve

and after all that is the goal isn't it

 i  mean come on guys we have  all seem pictures of a piece of meat that looks like someone just took it out of the smoke stack of a semi truck  , yet everyone tells them how great it looks...who  the hell are we kidding ?

tell them the truth, tell them how to fix it and encourage them to try again ..don't out and out lie to them that's  not why they came here

they came for help,  if they thought they could cook they wouldn't be here  , they are not stupid , they are smart enough to ask for help not lies

 

[txninnc]

A lot of truth in what you said. I like looking at new ideas and hearing what people have to say. I'm pretty sure I can cook...lol....at least I like what I do. Don't see very many steel guitar players..that's badass

 

[dirtsailor2003]

Cal why are you so negative?

Every post you've made lately is negative. Nothing good.

 

[atomicsmoke]

Cal why are you so negative?

Every post you've made lately is negative. Nothing good.

Lately?

 

[mike5051]

Awesome!  Great job!   

 

[redheelerdog]

LMAO!

 

[cal1956]

negative ? since when is the truth negative ? i have simply made an observation that any one with eyes and 1/2 brain could make

 sugar coating things help no one, the new comer needs guidance not compliments ,

the compliments will come when he/she set 's  a well cooked chunk of meat on the table   

 telling them that everything that they post a picture of regardless of how horrable it looks doesn't help them,

it only serves to reinforce what they did wrong 

 i have seen photos of meat that some newbee posted that i wouldn't serve  to the hog , let alone a human but folks still told the newbee how great it looks .

I AM 3/4 blind so if i can see it i know others can see it

when the new guy/gal posts a picture , look at it and TELL them what went wrong

and encourage them to try again

if any teacher tells a student that everything they do is right , then the teacher is NOT  doing their job   

so please stop lying to these people

 

[daveomak]

Maybe they like heavy smoke and thick bark....   We are here to encourage folks to enjoy what they are doing...    Everyone has different taste when if comes to smoking meats...

 

[marctrees]

All Cal is saying is differentiating between false praise, and encouraging constructive criticism.

I am not familiar, nor did I look at his previous posts.

Sure, some like more smoke, others less.

But not about that.

When a Turkey comes out black, it's black.

I spend much time at a few forums, here, fabricating and Hot Rod garage guys, and an Audio forum.

This one is the least critical, most forgiving of all.

Actually, in my opinion, TOO polite in many cases.

There is nothing wrong with direct factual constructive criticism, put out in a caring helpful manner.     Marc

 

[SmokinAl]

I tend to disagree with you Cal.

Most people don't like or appreciate unsolicited criticism, especially the way you are giving it.

If the person asks for ideas or comments on their smoke then I will give advice.

If I see something that I think will improve their next try I will advise them of that.

However, I will not berate someones effort, especially a newcomer.

If he thinks he did a good job & his family liked his food, then who am I to tell him that, as you said "I wouldn't feed that to a hog".

I wonder if you would have stuck around here or anywhere else if you had been told that when you were learning this hobby.

I think you need to lighten up and understand that those kind of comments are not helpful to anyone, especially a newbie.

Al

 

[chef jimmyj]

One man's bark is another man's burnt. I hate fall of the bone ribs but if that is what you like, I won't criticize your choice and will be more than happy to tell you the best way to get them. With the written word alone, there is a lot of room for misinterpretation with an extremely fine line between constructive criticism and disparaging comments.

This ain't a KCBS competition and there is no need for Judges...JJ

Disparaging Comments about another member's Post, Education, Abilities or Intent...Is just not right and will have to be deleted with a Warning sent...Further infractions will be grounds for Suspension and/or Banning from the SMF...We all lose in this situation...

 

[mdboatbum]

I don't spend as much time here as I used to, but I always try to be honest. That being said, I also try and be tactful. I agree with Cal in that giving false praise hinders the learning process. But harsh criticism shuts down the desire to learn. There is a fine line between tough love and meanness. By the same token, there is a fine line between encouragement and coddling.

I think what we can all strive to do is treat everyone fairly and kindly, while helping as much as possible with the learning of this hobby.

I like threads like this. They tend to bring up things that need to be said. While they aren't always well received, they almost always create a discussion.

 

[atomicsmoke]

The thing is I don't see unwarranted praises . Certainly not from "everyone" like the OP said. Some member might just say a "looks nice" , as they just want to politely chime in, but there is always someone providing good feedback without a condescending tone.

What i agree this forum lacks compared to others is the continous bellicose atmosphere very obvious on other forums. Most of us don't want that so let's keep it that way. A great deal of individuals get their rocks off by starting or feeding online arguments. That doesn't work here. Mods and most members won't allow it. We all cross horns once in a while but that's not our passion, smoking is.

Whenever I post cheese smokes I get at least one "that long of a smoke?". That's the way I like it, others don't so they say their opinion. Never felt put down or disparaged by that. However I would feel that way and think twice before posting again if someone told me they wouldn't feed that to a hog.

 

[wade]

That being said, I also try and be tactful.

I think "tact" is the key word. We need to encourage them (especially if they are totally new to smoking) but there are ways of giving criticism in a gentle way.

To be honest, photos often do not do food justice. I have smoked some lovely meat that I have subsequently taken photos of to post - only to wonder if the meat in the photo was actually the same as had just eaten from that plate. Unless you are a professional food photographer employing a number of tricks of the trade, it is actually hard to do good food justice in photos.

 

[Bearcarver]

 
every time  a newcomer posts a picture of what they have just cooked everyone raves about how great it looks

 i think we can do better, while everyone needs encouragement they also need the cold hard truth if we expect them to improve

and after all that is the goal isn't it

 i  mean come on guys we have  all seem pictures of a piece of meat that looks like someone just took it out of the smoke stack of a semi truck  , yet everyone tells them how great it looks...who  the hell are we kidding ?

tell them the truth, tell them how to fix it and encourage them to try again ..don't out and out lie to them that's  not why they came here

they came for help,  if they thought they could cook they wouldn't be here  , they are not stupid , they are smart enough to ask for help not lies

So we should be Honest???

OK--I'll be honest right here---Cal, You'd make a Terrible Teacher!!!

You're talking about "Newcomers", as compared to "First Graders".

Your method to a First Grader Drawing the Alphabet for the first time----"That Looks like Crap, are you blind? You Really Stink at this!!!"

My Method---- "That looks real nice for your first time. You're doing Great. Now when you do the next one, try to do the A a little more like this.............".

Bear

 

[cmayna]

 
negative ? since when is the truth negative ? i have simply made an observation that any one with eyes and 1/2 brain could make

 sugar coating things help no one, the new comer needs guidance not compliments ,

the compliments will come when he/she set 's  a well cooked chunk of meat on the table   

 telling them that everything that they post a picture of regardless of how horrable it looks doesn't help them,

it only serves to reinforce what they did wrong 

 i have seen photos of meat that some newbee posted that i wouldn't serve  to the hog , let alone a human but folks still told the newbee how great it looks .

I AM 3/4 blind so if i can see it i know others can see it

when the new guy/gal posts a picture , look at it and TELL them what went wrong

and encourage them to try again.  Only if they are asking what they did wrong, or if we see an opportunity to give supportive criticism would I and most others offer suggestions on what we would do next time keeping in mind that we all have different taste buds.

if any teacher tells a student that everything they do is right , then the teacher is NOT  doing their job Most seasoned members do not tell anyone that everything they do is right. What you might not like, another might enjoy it.  Besides, how many teachers say that to a student- LOL

so please stop lying to these people. We are here to learn, We are here to offer encouragement to others.  We are here to help others by offering suggestions on other ways to do something that might help them. Not reading what you are saying are we. Dude, relax, stay calm and smoke on.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I agree. Your so negative.

If someones post is not up to your standards why belittle them. 

I agree with JJ. If you dont like the post nobody is forcing you to look at it or post back.

 

[boomerangg22]

why can we not show love and mercy to all?

 

[SmokinAl]

I'm going to lock this thread before it gets out of hand!

Al

 

[BGKYSmoker]

 
I'm going to lock this thread before it gets out of hand!

Al

Al

I am with Brian on this right now. But yes good idea.