15 year old Generac not running...replace?

[sandyut]

thoughts and opinions on this issue.

Out house came with a Generac 7Kw back up generator. I dont think it was well cared for by previous owners. I fixed an oil leak early on, the oil is very dark when I change it. Its old.

We have become quite used to not worrying about power outages which are frequent and have last days. But, it stopped starting and the service folks are struggling to find the issue. Its so old when I called Generac they had a hard time dinging info on this model and they dont make it anymore. So far on the hook for $800 and its not running. Next repair option looks to double that.

SO: is it time to get a new one or keep chasing the issue with the one we have? The new ones are bigger and would give us more electrical things to add to it. thats a plus. Cost is gonna be steep.

thanks

 

[Coreymacc]

Its a basic engine, why are the service people having difficulty figuring it out? I don't mean to be a jerk, but its ignition, air, or fuel, that's pretty much it. You don't mention if its diesel, or gas.

Corey

 

[sandyut]

Its a basic engine, why are the service people having difficulty figuring it out? I don't mean to be a jerk, but its ignition, air, or fuel, that's pretty much it. You don't mention if its diesel, or gas.

Corey

its natural gas, I question that as well.

 

[processhead]

With most equipment like generators I give more weight to the run-time hours and less to the age. If the hours are low, it may be premature to think about replacing it, unless there are serious underlying mechanical issues.

If the service tech can't figure it our, maybe sit down with him and the service manager and discuss what exactly what the issue is. If you can't get an easy-to-understand response, it might be time to shop around for someone else who works on small engines.

Like sandyut says, if it's not starting, it is a engine problem and their are lots of folks that should be able to diagnose the issue.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Agree with above^^^^^^^
It’s not the years, it’s the miles” to quote a song but very true just the same.

Dose the generator have an hour meter on it to show total run time?

 

[Coreymacc]

A basic leakdown test should also tell you if there is leakage past the rings and valve train, if things are sealed up pretty tight still and there are no obvious noises coming from the bottom end, then the engine is probably still in reasonable condition. It boils down to stop paying a service company who can't figure out why the engine is not running, or do they know and want to sell you a new unit. Im not saying that's what's happening here but its worth mentioning anyways. IMO

Corey

 

[TimboBBQ!]

thoughts and opinions on this issue.

Out house came with a Generac 7Kw back up generator. I dont think it was well cared for by previous owners. I fixed an oil leak early on, the oil is very dark when I change it. Its old.

We have become quite used to not worrying about power outages which are frequent and have last days. But, it stopped starting and the service folks are struggling to find the issue. Its so old when I called Generac they had a hard time dinging info on this model and they dont make it anymore. So far on the hook for $800 and its not running. Next repair option looks to double that.

SO: is it time to get a new one or keep chasing the issue with the one we have? The new ones are bigger and would give us more electrical things to add to it. thats a plus. Cost is gonna be steep.

thanks

Bought one 6 years ago for our river house and it runs the entire home with hot tub and all running. Little over $8000 installed back then. We love it. It ran over a week straight with no issues after a storm not long after we got it.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

You say "It doesn't start" (or words to that effect).
There are a couple of things to consider and/or verify:

Does it crank over when you try to manually start it?
If it does crank over, squirt about 1/2 second of standard starting fluid in the air intake.
Did anything happen?
If you did hear a cylinder or two try to fire, then it's a fuel related problem.

If it doesn't crank over, then it's slightly more complicated.
Battery.
Starter.
Starter relay.
Auto-start circuitry (if it automatically starts itself upon a power outage).

If the motor will crank but won't even try to start using a squirt of starting fluid, then pull one of the spark plugs, ground the tab against the block, crank the motor and see if you have any spark.

We'll deal with other stuff later.

 

[sandyut]

You say "It doesn't start" (or words to that effect).
There are a couple of things to consider and/or verify:

Does it crank over when you try to manually start it?
If it does crank over, squirt about 1/2 second of standard starting fluid in the air intake.
Did anything happen?
If you did hear a cylinder or two try to fire, then it's a fuel related problem.

If it doesn't crank over, then it's slightly more complicated.
Battery.
Starter.
Starter relay.
Auto-start circuitry (if it automatically starts itself upon a power outage).

If the motor will crank but won't even try to start using a squirt of starting fluid, then pull one of the spark plugs, ground the tab against the block, crank the motor and see if you have any spark.

We'll deal with other stuff later.

It cranks and bare sputters, then it tries again and again till it goes into "overcrank" and stops trying. the service guys have convinced themselves its a gas company issue, gas company says its a generator issue. Super frustrating!

Its old, and not well cared for. thus the debate about moving on or try more "repairs"

 

[sandyut]

Ok Since I dont agree with the service guys assessment. I think Im gonna have the other local company out for an assessment of the situation before dropping mass money on a new one. I dont think its a gas supply problem. the gas guy put a new regulator on the house and checked everything. just to prove there was not a supply problem. But the service guy is stuck on saying it is a supply problem. Which is odd because they were both here at the same time and all three of us saw everything.

If company #2 fixes it, then company #1 is gonna be hearing from one pissed off customer.

 

[Jim_C]

Since the wiring, automatic switch-over, and all that is all in place the cost of replacing the actual generator should be a lot less. The challenge you may have is whether the issue is truly the gas company or not. If it is, a new generator doesn't buy much.

If it's sputtering and trying then it sounds like it may be carburetor related. Sounds like the ignition system is trying to do it's part. If the intake air filter is clean, and there is no filter on the gas intake portion, it pretty much leaves the carburetor.

My two cents worth.

 

[JckDanls 07]

Did they (service company) do a compression test ??

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

OK, try this:

Squirt some starting fluid in and crank the motor. When it sputters, spray in a little more.
Keep doing that for a couple of minutes (if possible).
Obviously you want to keep the squirt time small.

If this works, then slam the choke closed as the motor speeds up. Then open and re-squirt.
The idea is to pull any obstruction in the carb through the system.

Like Jim_C said, since it is trying to run, it only leaves a fuel filter and carb.

 

[sandyut]

OK, try this:

Squirt some starting fluid in and crank the motor. When it sputters, spray in a little more.
Keep doing that for a couple of minutes (if possible).
Obviously you want to keep the squirt time small.

If this works, then slam the choke closed as the motor speeds up. Then open and re-squirt.
The idea is to pull any obstruction in the carb through the system.

Like Jim_C said, since it is trying to run, it only leaves a fuel filter and carb.

I will run on starting fluid, they replaced the internal pressure regulator and nothing changed. the gas company dropped the home pressure to 2-3 IWC and it started and ran just fine, but it cant be left there. Seems to me the internal pressure regulator has an issue or the solenoid voltage is hose or something like that.

Natural gas doesnt have a carb as I understand it just a mixing thing? IDK.

 

[sandyut]

Did they (service company) do a compression test ??

no, but see below it will run under some conditions.

 

[sandyut]

The challenge you may have is whether the issue is truly the gas company or not. If it is, a new generator doesn't buy much.

Exactly. I just dont see how its a gas company issue when they can turn down the pressure and it will run. I just dont understand how the NG system works enough to mess with it myself.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

I will run on starting fluid, they replaced the internal pressure regulator and nothing changed. the gas company dropped the home pressure to 2-3 IWC and it started and ran just fine, but it cant be left there. Seems to me the internal pressure regulator has an issue or the solenoid voltage is hose or something like that.

Natural gas doesnt have a carb as I understand it just a mixing thing? IDK.

Ah, so it's almost like it's flooded (to coin a gasoline term).

 

[processhead]

OK, try this:......

Like Jim_C said, since it is trying to run, it only leaves a fuel filter and carb.

Since it runs on natural gas, you can illuminate fuel filters and other things associated with liquid fuels.
I do agree that using short squirts of starting fluid to verify that it will start and run briefly has merit. This would isolate it down to being a fuel issue or something else.

Based on earlier comments, my money is that its a fuel system issue.

There should be a device between the gas service line and the carburetor called a demand regulator. Ask the service guys if it has been tested or replaced. They aren't terribly expensive.

 

[sandyut]

There should be a device between the gas service line and the carburetor called a demand regulator. Ask the service guys if it has been tested or replaced. They aren't terribly expensive.

Yup they replaced that. $250 plus time and BS to guess that was the issue = $800 and it was not the cause of the problem.

 

[Coreymacc]

Just put another regulator on it. I had to do that in my shop because the tube heater couldn't handle to pressure that the house required. Staging regulators in natural gas is common, you locally bring the pressure down at the engine so it only see's the 2 or 3 wc required.

Corey