Tough casings

[garyc]

I have been trying to make smoked sausage for quite a while now and I have had some success with the exception of my casings. When I try to make anything that is smoked I get tough casings. I use the Hi-Mountain kits for the most part and I like the way they taste. When I make fresh sausage like Bratwurst they come out fine but if I try to make smoked sausage like Polish or Italian in my electric MES my casings and the meat directly next to the casing is tough. I tried switching from the casings that come with the kit to LEM casings but it still comes out the same. I follow the directions on the Hi-Mountain kit exactly. This is how I smoke my sausage, perhaps someone can tell me what I am doing wrong.

1. I hang the sausages on sticks and place in my Electric MES at 120 deg for 1 hour to let the casings dry. I have the vent wide open and no water in the pan.

2. I apply the smoke and cook at 160 deg for 30 minutes.

3. I bump the temp up to 180 deg and cook to 156 deg with the smoke on for the first 2 hours total.

At this point the directions just say to refrigerate or freeze the sausages. I tried it that way with less than desirable results. I have also taken them from the smoker and rapidly cooled them in ice water then let them hang to "bloom". This gave me the same results. Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I have a batch of Hot Polish in the fridge curing and I want to smoke them tonight after work.

Thank you for your replies.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I have been trying to make smoked sausage for quite a while now and I have had some success with the exception of my casings. When I try to make anything that is smoked I get tough casings. I use the Hi-Mountain kits for the most part and I like the way they taste. When I make fresh sausage like Bratwurst they come out fine but if I try to make smoked sausage like Polish or Italian in my electric MES my casings and the meat directly next to the casing is tough. I tried switching from the casings that come with the kit to LEM casings but it still comes out the same. I follow the directions on the Hi-Mountain kit exactly. This is how I smoke my sausage, perhaps someone can tell me what I am doing wrong.

1. I hang the sausages on sticks and place in my Electric MES at 120 deg for 1 hour to let the casings dry. I have the vent wide open and no water in the pan.

2. I apply the smoke and cook at 160 deg for 30 minutes.

3. I bump the temp up to 180 deg and cook to 156 deg with the smoke on for the first 2 hours total.

At this point the directions just say to refrigerate or freeze the sausages. I tried it that way with less than desirable results. I have also taken them from the smoker and rapidly cooled them in ice water then let them hang to "bloom". This gave me the same results. Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I have a batch of Hot Polish in the fridge curing and I want to smoke them tonight after work.

Thank you for your replies.

Your start up time of 130 is good. However your other times are to hot to fast and yes you need water in the pan or the casings will dry be brittle and tough.

Here is a chart on how i do my temps.

130 for 1-1.5 hrs no smoke....EDIT No water pan at this step.

140 for 2 hrs w/smoke

150 for 2 hrs smoke opt...check IT of meat..smoke opt

160 for 2 hrs..check IT again...smoke opt

170 for 2-3 hrs check IT again. You should be in the high 130 to low 140s here.

If neede to reach the meat IT of between 150-152 bump heat to 175. Try not to exceed 180.

When you have reached target IT, a cold water bath is your call.

Hope this helps some.

 

[garyc]

Your start up time of 130 is good. However your other times are to hot to fast and yes you need water in the pan or the casings will dry be brittle and tough.

Here is a chart on how i do my temps.

130 for 1-1.5 hrs no smoke

140 for 2 hrs w/smoke

150 for 2 hrs smoke opt...check IT of meat..smoke opt

160 for 2 hrs..check IT again...smoke opt

170 for 2-3 hrs check IT again. You should be in the high 130 to low 140s here.

If neede to reach the meat IT of between 150-152 bump heat to 175. Try not to exceed 180.

When you have reached target IT, a cold water bath is your call.

Hope this helps some.

Thank you for your response. I always thought the idea of the 1 hour (or so) at 130 deg was to make the casings dry so the smoke would penetrate. Wouldn't water in the pan counteract this goal?

Since I have had no luck doing things the way I have been doing them I will definitely try this. Thank you very much.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Thank you for your response. I always thought the idea of the 1 hour (or so) at 130 deg was to make the casings dry so the smoke would penetrate. Wouldn't water in the pan counteract this goal?

Since I have had no luck doing things the way I have been doing them I will definitely try this. Thank you very much.

Yes

I forgot to say no water for the 130 heat. Water after that.

 

[boykjo]

I'm a firm believer in fresh casings packed in a salt solution. Give Nepas instructions a try  and if you still get the same results, try some packaged in salt solution. I get my 38-45mm casing packed in salt solution locally but I buy sheeps from Butcher packer for hot dogs and they were perfect with a nice snap....

here is what I use

Good luck and happy smoking

Joe
 

 

[garyc]

Yes
I forgot to say no water for the 130 heat. Water after that.

Thanks! I am smoking them right now. One hour of dry 130 deg then water in the pan. They have been at 140 deg for an hour with water and smoke. They are at 115 deg right now. I am looking forward to the results!

 

[garyc]

I'm a firm believer in fresh casings packed in a salt solution. Give Nepas instructions a try  and if you still get the same results, try some packaged in salt solution. I get my 38-45mm casing packed in salt solution locally but I buy sheeps from Butcher packer for hot dogs and they were perfect with a nice snap....


Good luck and happy smoking

Joe

 

I am looking at their web site right now. All I can get here is stuff from Basspro. Lem and High-Mountain is about it. I think that if this works out I will try hot dogs again. I will try the sheep casings they have here.
Thanks!

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I'm a firm believer in fresh casings packed in a salt solution. Give Nepas instructions a try  and if you still get the same results, try some packaged in salt solution. I get my 38-45mm casing packed in salt solution locally but I buy sheeps from Butcher packer for hot dogs and they were perfect with a nice snap....

here is what I use

Good luck and happy smoking

Joe
 

Joe

Where do you get your wolfson from?

Since not living in PA and now seeing my butcher friend i dont get fresh casings anymore.

 

[gavin guidry]

I believe in fresh casings also. Try a slaughter house if possible.

 

[gavin guidry]

Or even try a local supermarket that makes their own sausage. They should be glad to sell you a hank.

 

[pops6927]

I buy from Syracuse Casings and never had a problem yet with them.  When you buy casings, does it tell where they're from?  Syracuse Casings are from American animals.  Most casings are from China and are cheaper and tougher.

http://www.makincasing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EM419&Category_Code=1

They are a premium casing; you get what you pay for.

 

[garyc]

Well, I just took them out of the smoker. The casing is much better! It snapped when I bit into it like I wanted. Thanks, Nepas, for your advice!
 

 

[checkerfred]

Rick, do you use the same smoking/cooking process above for summer sausage and snack sticks?  I have been having a problem with everything coming out too dry...then ends are dark dark brown and dry......I haven't been using a water pan.  I use a masterbuilt electric smoker and keep the vent wide open for the 1st hour, then close it down to a little less than half for the rest.

Also, approx. how long does it take to reach temp in your snacksticks and summer sausage?  My summer sausage that I made last night went 7 hours and still was only at 128 internal temp.  seems like it takes forever to get it to temp.

 

[smokinhusker]

I'm sure Rick will swing by and answer for you, but I just did 80/20 venison snack sticks

and follow the same temps and times he listed above and mine come out good. 

If you could help us out with a location - even just a state - will give us an idea of the climate you are at and help with giving advice.

My snack sticks 9 hrs from the time I placed them in the MES 40.

One other thing is make sure the cabinet/chamber temp and set temp are the same. My MES cabinet temp is cooler than the set temp. 

 

[checkerfred]

Thanks SmokinHusker, I just updated my info...I thought I had done that!  When you say make sure the temp and set temp are the same, do you mean the temperature you set the smoker on should match the temperature from a thermometer set inside?

I made some more sausage last night...I took the fat that I had previously ground and stored in bags, cut it in chunks (it was frozen), and ground it up with partially frozen deer.....it blended and mixed up nicely this time, but during fermenting, at 95-100 degrees, the fat leaked out through the holes where I pricked the air bubbles....then even more leaked out when I put it in a 125 degree smoker.....I couldnt get the casings dry so I had to wipe them down.  This is really irritating

 

[boykjo]

Pics please.................

 

 

[checkerfred]

boykjo, here are some pics of the results....I will take some next time during the entire process so you guys can see what I'm doing.

On the sticks, they are sheep casings....the look over dried to me and the texture is a little dry as well...you can see where the fat pooled up in the indentations from the racks.. they also seem like they browned way to much, especially on the ends...almost like they were burnt......they do taste good esp. the one with the cheese.  I had two thermometers monitoring the IT..one is the built in on the Masterbuilt smoker and the other is a wireless probe/thermom....both read almost the same temp....there might be 1-2 degrees diff....I did the boiling water test on the one I bought to make sure it was in calibration and it was dead on +- 1 degree.  My masterbuilt smoker seems 5-7 degrees off from what the digital readout says...and it's almost 10 degrees cooler on the left hand side.

The summer sausage is really dry.....i had lots of fat come out.....the casings were very loose so I cut them off....I've had this problem about every time I've made summer sausage....you can see how it crumbles when it is sliced....this is a recipe from Len Poli's site....it called for red wine but I don't care for the taste it added...it's ok but I have a different recipe I like better from the Marianski books.  It needed more salt too.

I wish I could figure this fat thing out...it's driving me crazy.

 

[checkerfred]

the landjager in the smoker.....I'm trying a semi-dry cure version from the Marianski book...I used cure #1 instead of 2, and smoking the sausage....then I'll let it dry down some in the fridge when done

yes I stink at linking the sausage....they wanted to unroll while hanging so I tied them!

 

[smokinhusker]

Thank you for updating your location...it's much appreciated!

Yes, that's exactly what I mean about the cabinet temp and the set temp. I have an oven therm in mine and if I set it for 225*, the oven therm is only at approx 200-205*. 

It doesn't seem to be as much of a difference at lower temps. Yes they are cooler on the left side - there's no element there. I usually try to hang the sausage on the left,

especially the longer ones and I keep the shorter links on the right. The built in meat probe (when not inserted in any product) is within 1* of the oven therm I have in there, 

and dead on with my meat therms. I also leave my vent all the way open.

I still consider myself a newbie at sausage making, but Boykjo and Nepas are two of the best when it comes to sausage. Did you mention what your lean to fat ratio is and I 

missed it? Are you refrigerating the meat once it's ground to firm it up a bit before mixing and stuffing? Are you using a stuffer or a grinder to stuff with?

 

[checkerfred]

i'm using 70% deer to 30% pork fat....should i cut that back? maybe i have too much fat?

I'm not refridgerating the meat...I'm grinding it almost frozen (meat) and frozen (fat).....that's working better but it's still dripping out during smoking....I then ferment (if using a culture) in the oven with the light on....it gives me 95-100 degrees....and yes I'm using a vertical stuffer to stuff my casings

my texture, esp. on the sticks just seems to be much dryer than what I've seen from nepas and a few others