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Tips or pic for a pork crown roast
- Thread starter clloyd
- Start date
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portlandroger
Fire Starter
Update!
I brined the 10.37lb Pork Crown Roast for 12 hours, with the recipe above from Jimmy J,
then cooked it at 225° - 245° (mostly in the 225° range), using apple chunks.
At 145° IT, (3.5 hrs cooking time) I removed it, covered it with a foil tent for 30 mins,
then dribbled cranberry compote on it and served it. It looked pretty good.
Here's a before photo: (the red is the cranberry compote)
And an after dinner photo:
Everybody loved it, but I have some questions that I hope someone can explain to me,
because the meat did not come out like I like it...
The roast had a nice presentation. The meat was a bit pink, which I like... but it
was hard to cut, which I don't like. It didn't feel (in the mouth) particularly tough, but
it was 'hard' to cut with a table knife - like it was really tough - which distracted from the
presentation, etc.
I'd like to learn how to cook this cut, so it not only looks great, but tastes and feels great.
Any ideas why it came out tough and what I could do next time so the meat cuts as well
as it looks and tastes? BTW, it did not fall off the bone, like ribs do, if that means anything...
I brined the 10.37lb Pork Crown Roast for 12 hours, with the recipe above from Jimmy J,
then cooked it at 225° - 245° (mostly in the 225° range), using apple chunks.
At 145° IT, (3.5 hrs cooking time) I removed it, covered it with a foil tent for 30 mins,
then dribbled cranberry compote on it and served it. It looked pretty good.
Here's a before photo: (the red is the cranberry compote)
And an after dinner photo:
Everybody loved it, but I have some questions that I hope someone can explain to me,
because the meat did not come out like I like it...
The roast had a nice presentation. The meat was a bit pink, which I like... but it
was hard to cut, which I don't like. It didn't feel (in the mouth) particularly tough, but
it was 'hard' to cut with a table knife - like it was really tough - which distracted from the
presentation, etc.
I'd like to learn how to cook this cut, so it not only looks great, but tastes and feels great.
Any ideas why it came out tough and what I could do next time so the meat cuts as well
as it looks and tastes? BTW, it did not fall off the bone, like ribs do, if that means anything...
- May 12, 2011
- 22,167
- 7,168
That looks Spectacular! The Tough texture was most likely the Pork itself, as you did a great job in Smoking the roast. You will get additional tenderizing from a longer, 24-48 hours, of Brine time. As far as Cook Book cook times, they often are old or use old IT standards for the average cook to get well done Pork that gives a margin of error and a virtually guaranteed safe to eat piece of meat. The benefit of being an SMF Member is getting the combined knowledge of years of experience from members that know the current techniques and safety practices that allow us to enjoy properly and safely prepared meats...Thank God! Moms cooked to death Pork Loin SUCKED! Even she aggrees now...JJ
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That looks great..... I told my wife I want to do one now :biggrin:
Chef Jimmy is correct about the different types of pork will get you different tenderness. After you feel comfortable with everything around the crown roast and you feel like dropping a few extra bucks. Try some Berkshire pork or something along that lines. They are concidered to be the Wagyu of pork....... The other thing to concider is you are compressing the pork when you form the crown. So it will be slightly tougher due to that. So it is a choice sometimes between presentation of the crown and the presentation of a laid out bone in pork roast.......
Chef Jimmy is correct about the different types of pork will get you different tenderness. After you feel comfortable with everything around the crown roast and you feel like dropping a few extra bucks. Try some Berkshire pork or something along that lines. They are concidered to be the Wagyu of pork....... The other thing to concider is you are compressing the pork when you form the crown. So it will be slightly tougher due to that. So it is a choice sometimes between presentation of the crown and the presentation of a laid out bone in pork roast.......
Very nice!
portlandroger
Fire Starter
I was a little reluctant to leave the crown in the brine much longer, as I was reading that brine can
make the texture mealy and soft sometimes. Naturally the article didn't go into enough detail to
inform me 'when' this occurs.
When you talk about your mother's over cooked pork, I can relate! My 90 y/o father was at our dinner
yesterday, and was having a 'mental' time cutting and eating a "pink" pork chop! We had 2 separate
conversations prior to eating on the internal temp of pork. Ha!
My Crown's texture was 'almost' the texture of over cooked pork. Not quite as bad, as it wasn't dry,
but the toughness was similar. The pork came from a "natural" farmer here locally. They let their
pigs live and hang out in their large pens and slop yards - no small confining pens, feed them well,
etc.
Brining: There is a German deli and butcher close to me, here in Portland, that sells smoked pork chops,
that are big and thick, just like these were from my Crown. He uses Alder, so the smoke is sweet
and pretty light, but the meat actually tastes a bit like ham. Is that 'ham flavor' accomplished with
the brine? If it is, what type of brine, timing, etc?
Thanks for working me through this process. Your advice helped a lot!
make the texture mealy and soft sometimes. Naturally the article didn't go into enough detail to
inform me 'when' this occurs.
When you talk about your mother's over cooked pork, I can relate! My 90 y/o father was at our dinner
yesterday, and was having a 'mental' time cutting and eating a "pink" pork chop! We had 2 separate
conversations prior to eating on the internal temp of pork. Ha!
My Crown's texture was 'almost' the texture of over cooked pork. Not quite as bad, as it wasn't dry,
but the toughness was similar. The pork came from a "natural" farmer here locally. They let their
pigs live and hang out in their large pens and slop yards - no small confining pens, feed them well,
etc.
Brining: There is a German deli and butcher close to me, here in Portland, that sells smoked pork chops,
that are big and thick, just like these were from my Crown. He uses Alder, so the smoke is sweet
and pretty light, but the meat actually tastes a bit like ham. Is that 'ham flavor' accomplished with
the brine? If it is, what type of brine, timing, etc?
Thanks for working me through this process. Your advice helped a lot!
A few days late! Sorry for not getting back sooner. Your Roast looked good. As far as the toughness goes I have had hit and miss with this cut. No rhyme or reason either. I have found a local source here that has been producing better results "Pono Farms". Not cheap though. The last one I didn't brine, but I did use water in the water pan.
I didn't see anyone answer, SPOG is Salt Pepper Onion Garlic.
IS your local Deli Edelweiss? Had some good sausages from there before!
portlandroger
Fire Starter
JJ,
Here's what a person at the farm that raises the pigs emailed me, about the tough feel of the meat:
Two things will contribute to it feeling tough. Smoking dries out the meat and will make it less tender than baking it.
The other possibility is that it was too lean and that would make it dry and tough.
When you want to smoke it leave more fat on the outside of the roast.
The crown presentation is beautiful, but the Crown Roast is not really meant to be smoked.
Wrapping the meat into a Crown Roast has nothing to do with the texture of the product.
There are just some products that are better for smoking than others. We normally suggest a Crown Roast to be baked in a conventional oven at 325° for about 90 min, (watching the temperature carefully) with an internal temp of 140°. We always recommend using an internal temp because all ovens cook so differently.
My Comments/questions:
If what she said is correct, could we "smoke" it for a while and then transfer it to the oven?
If this is an option, how long on the smoke? (if the time on the smoke must be short, maybe put more
than normal wood in the smoker so a nice layer of smoke permeates the raw meat quickly?
Here's what a person at the farm that raises the pigs emailed me, about the tough feel of the meat:
Two things will contribute to it feeling tough. Smoking dries out the meat and will make it less tender than baking it.
The other possibility is that it was too lean and that would make it dry and tough.
When you want to smoke it leave more fat on the outside of the roast.
The crown presentation is beautiful, but the Crown Roast is not really meant to be smoked.
Wrapping the meat into a Crown Roast has nothing to do with the texture of the product.
There are just some products that are better for smoking than others. We normally suggest a Crown Roast to be baked in a conventional oven at 325° for about 90 min, (watching the temperature carefully) with an internal temp of 140°. We always recommend using an internal temp because all ovens cook so differently.
My Comments/questions:
If what she said is correct, could we "smoke" it for a while and then transfer it to the oven?
If this is an option, how long on the smoke? (if the time on the smoke must be short, maybe put more
than normal wood in the smoker so a nice layer of smoke permeates the raw meat quickly?
portlandroger
Fire Starter
Nice to hear from you. Thanks for the info. I did a search on this forum and found a
long list of acronym's, including SPOG. But thanks.
Yes, the deli is [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Edelweiss. The Bavarian deli in Tigard has the same meats, too.[/color]
long list of acronym's, including SPOG. But thanks.
Yes, the deli is [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Edelweiss. The Bavarian deli in Tigard has the same meats, too.[/color]
- May 12, 2011
- 22,167
- 7,168
Couple of things here...If brining more than a few hours makes meat mushy...Then how come every member here and butchers across the country Brine Ham's, Buck Board Bacon, Canadian Bacon and other pork cuts for Days or Weeks!?! Don't believe it! For less dense muscle like Poultry and Fish, more that 2-3 days can have an impact but not Pork or Beef...
The " Hammy " pork chops are most likely Brined with a salt and sugar solution containing Cure #1. I say most likely because there are Dry Rub Cures that can be used. Anyway start with Pops Brine and go from there adding Herbs or Spices that you like. Brine Cured Pork Chops can be brined in a day or two then smoked at virtually any temp you wish depending on how intense you want the smoke. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops-wet-curing-brine
Pork Loins smoke up just fine. Yes there are better, aka Fattier, cuts like Hams, Picnics and Butts, however there is nothing wrong with smoking loin.
Her statement that Smoking dries out meat is just plain silly. Chef's and many home artisans have smoked Low and Slow for hundreds of years and everybody is not eating DRY meat. It has been proven that High heat Roasting does not " seal in Juices " so Roasting is not any better than Smoking. The keys to moist tender meat cooked by ANY means is, Quality meat, the more Marbing the better followed by a fair amount of Fat over all and Cooking to proper temps, being careful not to Over Cook unless using a moist cooking method designed to break down connective tissue.
Yes you can Smoke with heavy smoke for an hour or so than go in the oven. Smoker temps of 180* to 200*F will work fine.
From what you describe you did everything right with the possible exception of not Brining long enough. If your meat was tough at 140*F IT...The problem is the Meat not you or the Smoke!...JJ
The " Hammy " pork chops are most likely Brined with a salt and sugar solution containing Cure #1. I say most likely because there are Dry Rub Cures that can be used. Anyway start with Pops Brine and go from there adding Herbs or Spices that you like. Brine Cured Pork Chops can be brined in a day or two then smoked at virtually any temp you wish depending on how intense you want the smoke. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops-wet-curing-brine
Pork Loins smoke up just fine. Yes there are better, aka Fattier, cuts like Hams, Picnics and Butts, however there is nothing wrong with smoking loin.
Her statement that Smoking dries out meat is just plain silly. Chef's and many home artisans have smoked Low and Slow for hundreds of years and everybody is not eating DRY meat. It has been proven that High heat Roasting does not " seal in Juices " so Roasting is not any better than Smoking. The keys to moist tender meat cooked by ANY means is, Quality meat, the more Marbing the better followed by a fair amount of Fat over all and Cooking to proper temps, being careful not to Over Cook unless using a moist cooking method designed to break down connective tissue.
Yes you can Smoke with heavy smoke for an hour or so than go in the oven. Smoker temps of 180* to 200*F will work fine.
From what you describe you did everything right with the possible exception of not Brining long enough. If your meat was tough at 140*F IT...The problem is the Meat not you or the Smoke!...JJ
diggingdogfarm
Master of the Pit
I agree that what she says about smoking is a bunch of hogwash.
Source a crown that's well marbled, that's the secret!
~Martin
Source a crown that's well marbled, that's the secret!
~Martin
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