Salmon seems mushy after hot smoke

[Northerneh]

Hello all,

I purchased a Bradley smoker and have been in the process of learning how to use it.

Yesterday, I did two separate batches with 3 lbs of salmon each (store bought) with the following brine;

4 cups water
2 cups soy sauce
2 cups apple juice
1 cup packed brown sugar
1/2 cup kosher salt
2 tablespoons whole black peppercorns
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
1 teaspoon freshly ground pepper
(smoked with Bradley apple pucks)

Each fillet was cut into roughly a 1/3 and left to brine over night.

Washed the brine from the fillets, and placed under a fan to dry for around 1 hour.

Once I noticed the fillets have developed a shine, pellicle, I pre-heated the smoker to 100 degrees F.

The recipe called for a smoke time of 6 to 8 hours at 100 degrees (left on for 7).

However, the outside seemed to be somewhat firm but inside seemed like mush, almost wet and didn't have a grate taste.

Where did I go wrong?

Was my temp to low?

Will I need to brine the fish longer and add more salt?

Any tips?!?

 

[dirtsailor2003]

I really prefer to dry brine salmon. 4:1 Kosher salt to brown sugar. Place a layer on brine mix into a casserole dish, place fish on top. Cover fish with more of the brine mix. add another layer of fish if you need to. Again cover fish with brine. Put in fridge and let it do its thing for 6-8 hours. Rinse off brine. Season with dry spices of your choice. Dry to form pellicle. Smoke. You can do a step temp method starting at 140°. Jump the temp to 150, 160, 170. Smoke for 4 hours or until internal temp is 140°.

I think your fish is mushy because your temp was too low. So you have more of a gravlox or cold smoked fish.

Here is a smoke that follows what I've outlined above. Been smoking fish for over 30 years using this method.

Fish Trifecta!

Getting the holiday gift baskets prepped. Smokin Salmon, rockfish, and tuna bellies. Will take the rockfish to a jerky texture. Separate containers for each while brining. 4-1 sugar to salt dry rub. Will brine for 8 hours, then rinse and air dry till pellicle forms. Season then smoke...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[tx smoker]

What I've done when brining salmon is to put it in a pan overnight that's fairly deep. Cover the fish with plastic wrap and place a pretty heavy weight on top of it. That will help get rid of the extraneous liquids in the salmon that make it mushy. Basically, it really helps to clean out the fillets.

Robert

 

[BigW.]

I enjoy hot smoked salmon. Go ahead a crank up the Bradley. Probably done in 1.5-2 hours depending on size. Plenty of smoke flavor. Since you did not use any cure and cold smoked, I'd consider tossing round #1, and look forward to batch #2. There are wierd things that live in fish if not cooked properly. Others are smarter than I.

 

[thirdeye]

I think dirtsailor2003 diagnosed the problem. And I'm with B BigW. with respect to tossing it due to the lack of a curing agent in the brine.

A good pellicle can take from a few hours with a small circulating fan, and from 12 to up to 24 hours uncovered in the fridge. A mushy texture is not good, but cold smoked fish does tend to be softer.

This is an example of my cold smoked Nova lox (left) and hot smoked salmon (145°) on the left. Did your salmon resemble the lox appearance, or was it actually mushy enough to smash between your fingers? The lox was double cured with a wet and dry step, and the hot smoked was cured with a dry cure similar to dirtsailor2003 but with a different salt to sugar ratio., and I cure with aromatics, then add seasonings before the overnight rest. But our cure times are about the same.

thirdeye's Dry Cure for Trout, Steelhead and Salmon
1 cup Mortons kosher salt (if you use Diamond Crystal, you will have to use more as it has larger grains)
2 cloves of garlic, finely chopped
2 cups firmly packed brown sugar
2 teaspoon ground ginger (I prefer to grind this myself in my mortar and pestle from cracked ginger)
1-2 teaspoons ground white pepper
½ teaspoon pulverized bay leaf

On a cutting board, sprinkle a little of the salt onto the chopped garlic, and mash to a paste with the point of a knife. In a small bowl, combine the garlic mixture with the remaining salt, the sugar, ginger, pepper and bay leaf. Mix this very well. Extra can be stored in the freezer.

 

[Northerneh]

I think dirtsailor2003 diagnosed the problem. And I'm with B BigW. with respect to tossing it due to the lack of a curing agent in the brine.

A good pellicle can take from a few hours with a small circulating fan, and from 12 to up to 24 hours uncovered in the fridge. A mushy texture is not good, but cold smoked fish does tend to be softer.

This is an example of my cold smoked Nova lox (left) and hot smoked salmon (145°) on the left. Did your salmon resemble the lox appearance, or was it actually mushy enough to smash between your fingers? The lox was double cured with a wet and dry step, and the hot smoked was cured with a dry cure similar to dirtsailor2003 but with a different salt to sugar ratio., and I cure with aromatics, then add seasonings before the overnight rest. But our cure times are about the same.

thirdeye's Dry Cure for Trout, Steelhead and Salmon
1 cup Mortons kosher salt (if you use Diamond Crystal, you will have to use more as it has larger grains)
2 cloves of garlic, finely chopped
2 cups firmly packed brown sugar
2 teaspoon ground ginger (I prefer to grind this myself in my mortar and pestle from cracked ginger)
1-2 teaspoons ground white pepper
½ teaspoon pulverized bay leaf

On a cutting board, sprinkle a little of the salt onto the chopped garlic, and mash to a paste with the point of a knife. In a small bowl, combine the garlic mixture with the remaining salt, the sugar, ginger, pepper and bay leaf. Mix this very well. Extra can be stored in the freezer.

Thanks for the input, I will try this next time. Texture to me seemed like the same as when it came right from the store, it had not firmed up at all

 

[Northerneh]

I enjoy hot smoked salmon. Go ahead a crank up the Bradley. Probably done in 1.5-2 hours depending on size. Plenty of smoke flavor. Since you did not use any cure and cold smoked, I'd consider tossing round #1, and look forward to batch #2. There are wierd things that live in fish if not cooked properly. Others are smarter than I.

Thanks BigW

 

[Northerneh]

I really prefer to dry brine salmon. 4:1 Kosher salt to brown sugar. Place a layer on brine mix into a casserole dish, place fish on top. Cover fish with more of the brine mix. add another layer of fish if you need to. Again cover fish with brine. Put in fridge and let it do its thing for 6-8 hours. Rinse off brine. Season with dry spices of your choice. Dry to form pellicle. Smoke. You can do a step temp method starting at 140°. Jump the temp to 150, 160, 170. Smoke for 4 hours or until internal temp is 140°.

I think your fish is mushy because your temp was too low. So you have more of a gravlox or cold smoked fish.

Here is a smoke that follows what I've outlined above. Been smoking fish for over 30 years using this method.

Fish Trifecta!

Getting the holiday gift baskets prepped. Smokin Salmon, rockfish, and tuna bellies. Will take the rockfish to a jerky texture. Separate containers for each while brining. 4-1 sugar to salt dry rub. Will brine for 8 hours, then rinse and air dry till pellicle forms. Season then smoke...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

Thanks dirtsailor2003

 

[Northerneh]

I think dirtsailor2003 diagnosed the problem. And I'm with B BigW. with respect to tossing it due to the lack of a curing agent in the brine.

A good pellicle can take from a few hours with a small circulating fan, and from 12 to up to 24 hours uncovered in the fridge. A mushy texture is not good, but cold smoked fish does tend to be softer.

This is an example of my cold smoked Nova lox (left) and hot smoked salmon (145°) on the left. Did your salmon resemble the lox appearance, or was it actually mushy enough to smash between your fingers? The lox was double cured with a wet and dry step, and the hot smoked was cured with a dry cure similar to dirtsailor2003 but with a different salt to sugar ratio., and I cure with aromatics, then add seasonings before the overnight rest. But our cure times are about the same.

thirdeye's Dry Cure for Trout, Steelhead and Salmon
1 cup Mortons kosher salt (if you use Diamond Crystal, you will have to use more as it has larger grains)
2 cloves of garlic, finely chopped
2 cups firmly packed brown sugar
2 teaspoon ground ginger (I prefer to grind this myself in my mortar and pestle from cracked ginger)
1-2 teaspoons ground white pepper
½ teaspoon pulverized bay leaf

On a cutting board, sprinkle a little of the salt onto the chopped garlic, and mash to a paste with the point of a knife. In a small bowl, combine the garlic mixture with the remaining salt, the sugar, ginger, pepper and bay leaf. Mix this very well. Extra can be stored in the freezer.

Thanks Thirdeye, ill have to try it out.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Another possibility, Apple Juice is quite Acidic, similar to Oranges. Soaking overnight, it may have had an impact...JJ

 

[Northerneh]

Another possibility, Apple Juice is quite Acidic, similar to Oranges. Soaking overnight, it may have had an impact...JJ

What fish would work better for recipe like this, lake trout?

 

[chef jimmyj]

People here smoke all kinds of fish. What's important is, recipes, Brine times and Smoke times and temps you find here have been peer reviewed and many have been reproduced with great results. The other guys, here, that gave you answers are the ones to follow...I do....JJ

 

[forktender]

Which type of Salmon was it? Was it Keto/ Chum Salmon? If your answer is yes, there's your problem.
Keto/Chum Salmon also known as Dog Salmon, for good reason it's only fit to be fed to your dogs.
Another name they/ the stores love to use to try to entice people into buying Keto/Chum/Dog Salmon is Silverbrite Salmon. All of which is Dog salmon and not fit for human consumption, well people eat the crap because they don't know any better, I say crap because it really is garbage fish.

Also one hour under the fan is another reason why your fish was mush, you really need to fan you fish for 3 to 5 hours. or better yet leave it uncovered in the refer for 48 hour. And 1/2 cup of salt is pretty light with all of that liquid. The salt is there not only for flavor, it serves a purpose, it slows down growth of nasty bacteria and it also firms up the fish. I'd feed that batch to the dogs and chalk it up to the learning curve.

Atlantic Salmon/ bath tube bred salmon while it works for some people, you'd be much better off buying flash frozen wild Alaskan Salmon from Costco or Sam's. I don't know where you live but if you are on the east coast or midwest any Salmon that you buy that is "fresh" is likely more than a 7 more likely 10 to 14 days old.

Buy flash frozen fish when you can because it's processed and flash frozen within minutes to hours after it is caught which means the enzymes that deteriorate the fishes flesh never have a chance to get started, and it's a much better product by a mile or ten. Personally I won't or wouldn't eat Atlantic Salmon or any other farm raised fish even if that is all that was available, either fresh or flash frozen or I ain't eating or feeding it too my family.

My family has been in the commercial fishing industry for many, many years, mainly Salmon, Halibut, Lingcod Herring, Smelt and Tuna for well over 100 years. For that reason alone I like my fish fresh or flashed or I don't eat it because I know what it goes through waiting to get it into the market. I hope this doesn't sound too snobbish although it most likely will because I am a self admitted fish snob...LOL

 

[Northerneh]

Which type of Salmon was it? Was it Keto/ Chum Salmon? If your answer is yes, there's your problem.
Keto/Chum Salmon also known as Dog Salmon, for good reason it's only fit to be fed to your dogs.
Another name they/ the stores love to use to try to entice people into buying Keto/Chum/Dog Salmon is Silverbrite Salmon. All of which is Dog salmon and not fit for human consumption, well people eat the crap because they don't know any better, I say crap because it really is garbage fish.

Also one hour under the fan is another reason why your fish was mush, you really need to fan you fish for 3 to 5 hours. or better yet leave it uncovered in the refer for 48 hour. And 1/2 cup of salt is pretty light with all of that liquid. The salt is there not only for flavor, it serves a purpose, it slows down growth of nasty bacteria and it also firms up the fish. I'd feed that batch to the dogs and chalk it up to the learning curve.

Atlantic Salmon/ bath tube bred salmon while it works for some people, you'd be much better off buying flash frozen wild Alaskan Salmon from Costco or Sam's. I don't know where you live but if you are on the east coast or midwest any Salmon that you buy that is "fresh" is likely more than a 7 more likely 10 to 14 days old.

Buy flash frozen fish when you can because it's processed and flash frozen within minutes to hours after it is caught which means the enzymes that deteriorate the fishes flesh never have a chance to get started, and it's a much better product by a mile or ten. Personally I won't or wouldn't eat Atlantic Salmon or any other farm raised fish even if that is all that was available, either fresh or flash frozen or I ain't eating or feeding it too my family.

My family has been in the commercial fishing industry for many, many years, mainly Salmon, Halibut, Lingcod Herring, Smelt and Tuna for well over 100 years. For that reason alone I like my fish fresh or flashed or I don't eat it because I know what it goes through waiting to get it into the market. I hope this doesn't sound too snobbish although it most likely will because I am a self admitted fish snob...LOL

No I definitely apricate the input. I'm from a small town in northwestern Ontario east of Winnipeg. It was "Fresh Atlantic Salmon" or so I thought after reading your post. I do have the option of buying frozen salmon, which I will do from know on. Or! just send some time looking for some lake trout out on the water!

 

[forktender]

No I definitely apricate the input. I'm from a small town in northwestern Ontario east of Winnipeg. It was "Fresh Atlantic Salmon" or so I thought after reading your post. I do have the option of buying frozen salmon, which I will do from know on. Or! just send some time looking for some lake trout out on the water!

All Atlantic Salmon that is sold in the US/ the world is pen raised, because you can't legally fish for Atlantic Salmon both sport fishing and commercial fish has been shut down for years. Wild Atlantic Salmon are in terrible shape as far as fish numbers go.

I told you I was a fish "GEEK", here is why I won't eat Atlantic Salmon or another farm raised fish...and don't even get me started with why you should NEVER eat Tilapia.

Here is some reading material on farm raised Salmon if you are really bored.

https://1bps6437gg8c169i0y1drtgz-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Aquaculture-Report_Feb14_FullSpread.pdf

 

[aldersmoke]

Which type of Salmon was it? Was it Keto/ Chum Salmon? If your answer is yes, there's your problem.
Keto/Chum Salmon also known as Dog Salmon, for good reason it's only fit to be fed to your dogs.
Another name they/ the stores love to use to try to entice people into buying Keto/Chum/Dog Salmon is Silverbrite Salmon. All of which is Dog salmon and not fit for human consumption, well people eat the crap because they don't know any better, I say crap because it really is garbage fish.

Also one hour under the fan is another reason why your fish was mush, you really need to fan you fish for 3 to 5 hours. or better yet leave it uncovered in the refer for 48 hour. And 1/2 cup of salt is pretty light with all of that liquid. The salt is there not only for flavor, it serves a purpose, it slows down growth of nasty bacteria and it also firms up the fish. I'd feed that batch to the dogs and chalk it up to the learning curve.

Atlantic Salmon/ bath tube bred salmon while it works for some people, you'd be much better off buying flash frozen wild Alaskan Salmon from Costco or Sam's. I don't know where you live but if you are on the east coast or midwest any Salmon that you buy that is "fresh" is likely more than a 7 more likely 10 to 14 days old.

Buy flash frozen fish when you can because it's processed and flash frozen within minutes to hours after it is caught which means the enzymes that deteriorate the fishes flesh never have a chance to get started, and it's a much better product by a mile or ten. Personally I won't or wouldn't eat Atlantic Salmon or any other farm raised fish even if that is all that was available, either fresh or flash frozen or I ain't eating or feeding it too my family.

My family has been in the commercial fishing industry for many, many years, mainly Salmon, Halibut, Lingcod Herring, Smelt and Tuna for well over 100 years. For that reason alone I like my fish fresh or flashed or I don't eat it because I know what it goes through waiting to get it into the market. I hope this doesn't sound too snobbish although it most likely will because I am a self admitted fish snob...LOL

Not snobbish at all. Living inland, I only buy the flash frozen fish. It is almost as good as same day fresh. My favorite fish is Sable fish.

 

[mneeley490]

Late to the conversation here, but Atlantic salmon was my first guess, also. I've found it to be mushy compared to Pacific salmon.

 

[forktender]

Not snobbish at all. Living inland, I only buy the flash frozen fish. It is almost as good as same day fresh. My favorite fish is Sable fish.

Flash frozen fish is you inland guys best friend by far it is superior to so-called fresh fish or farmed bath tub raised fish. I'd honestly quit eating fish before I bought farm raised fish and I love and eat fish at least three nights a week year round.

My family has been commercial fishing for well over 100 yrs for pretty much every type of fish there is a market for. I tell everyone I know that doesn't have access for truly fresh fish.
(meaning fresh off the boat or local fish markets) not what some stores call fresh fish those fish can be weeks old by the time they hit the markets...to buy flash frozen fish because most of it is processed and flashed within a day or two of being caught then it's glazed with a mist of salt water to form a protective barrier to protect it from freezer burn.
Flash frozen fish can and is sent around the world daily and it's the next best thing to truly fresh fish by a mile.

Just say no to bath tub/ farmed fish that fish is so unhealthy for you!!!!!!

 

[mneeley490]

Just say no to bath tub/ farmed fish that fish is so unhealthy for you!!!!!!

Agree 100%.
Some company was raising penned Atlantic salmon in WA state Puget Sound for some reason. Nobody knew about it, and of course, thousands got loose after a storm damaged the nets. It was nearly a major ecological disaster. The state pulled their license (after the fact) and encouraged fisherman to catch as many as they could, as quickly as they could, no limit. No one knows how many survived and might still be out there competing with the native salmon.

 

[forktender]

Agree 100%.
Some company was raising penned Atlantic salmon in WA state Puget Sound for some reason. Nobody knew about it, and of course, thousands got loose after a storm damaged the nets. It was nearly a major ecological disaster. The state pulled their license (after the fact) and encouraged fisherman to catch as many as they could, as quickly as they could, no limit. No one knows how many survived and might still be out there competing with the native salmon.

I remember reading about that mess what sad deal, they will eventually revert back too wild Salmon much like feral hogs revert to wild pigs. But nobody knows at what cost to the wild Salmon.