Pops6927's Wet Curing Brine
- Thread starter pops6927
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remsr
Smoking Fanatic
Thanks Kurt, But I have no intention of getting rid of my 35 year old work horse we have gone through about 3 refrigerators and still this old ugly refrigerator works great for brining and holding before and after smoking.
Randy,
PS If it ever ever does crap out I think I'll turn it into a cold smoker.
Randy,
PS If it ever ever does crap out I think I'll turn it into a cold smoker.
atomic dog
Fire Starter
I have been making enjoying smoked and occasional wet cured meat for years. I think it was bearcarver that actually convinced me an electric smoker was the way to go years ago now. I have been hooked ever since.
My wet curing is limited to a few chickens and pork loin on rare occasion. Always comes out good and always use 1tsp/5lb. But I have a couple questions to be honest...
-What affect would increasing the prague powder#1 from 1 tsp per 5lb meat to 3 tsp? I have never done it, but maybe somebody has experimented with curing salt (within safe limits) and might know. Does it change the texture, flavor, color? I am basically asking what affect pops recipe would do differently.
-I always make my brine in 1 gallon form. So for a 5lb pork loin I would always use 1 tsp of curing salt in that gallon of water (along with the salt, sugar and maple syrup and spices for ham). What would happen is I only used 1/2 gallon of water, half the salt and sugars but still use the 1 tsp per 5lb rule?
-I have never dry cured, but it would seem easier for me to rub and bag. If I mixed 1/3 of sugar, 1/3 cup salt and 1 tsp of prague powder #1 and rubbed it over a 5lb pork loin and bagged it, would I get the same results as wet curing with the same ratios?
What I am trying to wrap my brain around is wet and dry curing seem to use very similar ratios of prague powder. So within reason does diluting the curing salt in water not have an affect? These things have popped into my head from time to time. I figured II would finally ask.
My wet curing is limited to a few chickens and pork loin on rare occasion. Always comes out good and always use 1tsp/5lb. But I have a couple questions to be honest...
-What affect would increasing the prague powder#1 from 1 tsp per 5lb meat to 3 tsp? I have never done it, but maybe somebody has experimented with curing salt (within safe limits) and might know. Does it change the texture, flavor, color? I am basically asking what affect pops recipe would do differently.
-I always make my brine in 1 gallon form. So for a 5lb pork loin I would always use 1 tsp of curing salt in that gallon of water (along with the salt, sugar and maple syrup and spices for ham). What would happen is I only used 1/2 gallon of water, half the salt and sugars but still use the 1 tsp per 5lb rule?
-I have never dry cured, but it would seem easier for me to rub and bag. If I mixed 1/3 of sugar, 1/3 cup salt and 1 tsp of prague powder #1 and rubbed it over a 5lb pork loin and bagged it, would I get the same results as wet curing with the same ratios?
What I am trying to wrap my brain around is wet and dry curing seem to use very similar ratios of prague powder. So within reason does diluting the curing salt in water not have an affect? These things have popped into my head from time to time. I figured II would finally ask.
LOL... its time a year I see. This comes around at least yearly and heated discussions most often evolve. I know you are just wondering, I know you'll never do it but just want an idea, etc..... The site unless its changed, has always stood by the established safe curing standards. That is pretty much it. If you only use 1/2 the gallon of water then reduce the cure accordingly. You can NOT safely venture off into new and uncharted waters. Cure is a nitrate/nitrite and can be deadly, Seriously, deadly, but more commonly sickening if not used properly. The site only promotes the safe and approved methods only.
We leave those other type things to others, the wild and adventurous curers and smokers.
We only recommend/discuss the safe and approved methods issued by the manufacturer or the government.
Please don't take offense, it has nothing to do with you personally. But it only promotes hurt feeling and it shows an improper way to others who might attempt it, which the site does NOT agree with. So its just a mote point. Right, wrong, better, worse, that's all up to you if you are wild and adventurous. BUT the site only uses and discusses, the manufacturers and government's suggested curing processes.
Its not worth the possiblity of ill feelings and the chance someone might mistakenly use a wrong ratio and cause illness to family or friends. Its just not worth it.
I welcome management to step in at any time if this as changed and straighten me out.
atomic dog
Fire Starter
Wow you didn't read my questions very well and went off on some wild rant about the lethality of curing salt, which I am well aware of.
I use LESS prague powder than this recipe listed. I was asking if anybody knew what I would experience with the higher amount listed here. Again, I normally use less.
I am trying to understand if I haved the water in my cure recipe (which calls for 1 tsp per gallon), would I still use the same amount of curing salt or half that also. I assume yes, but am not sure on that one. But even if I did it is still well within the safety limits mentioned by the thread starter.
My last question was simply asking if I use the rule of 1 tsp per 5 pounds of meat dry rubbing am I OK. As I have never done dry rub cure I am making sure.
And let me just point out that the thread starter ever says one can experiment with the amount of cure. So what is up with you crawling up my butt?
WHatever dude. Have a nice day.
I use LESS prague powder than this recipe listed. I was asking if anybody knew what I would experience with the higher amount listed here. Again, I normally use less.
I am trying to understand if I haved the water in my cure recipe (which calls for 1 tsp per gallon), would I still use the same amount of curing salt or half that also. I assume yes, but am not sure on that one. But even if I did it is still well within the safety limits mentioned by the thread starter.
My last question was simply asking if I use the rule of 1 tsp per 5 pounds of meat dry rubbing am I OK. As I have never done dry rub cure I am making sure.
And let me just point out that the thread starter ever says one can experiment with the amount of cure. So what is up with you crawling up my butt?
WHatever dude. Have a nice day.
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remsr
Smoking Fanatic
Dang! Someone needs a hug. I know Fomeheart well enough to know he had no intention of upsetting you. He most likely miss understood you. I don't know much about curing as I am just starting but if I did I wouldn't answer your questions based on your remarks to someone one who was trying to help. Fomeheart is my go to for wet curing and Bear is my go to for dry cure although I keep an open mind to all suggestions. I hope this is not received as crawling up your butt as that is not my intention I just want to feel free to communicate on the forms without fear of someone becoming up set with the things I say.
Randy,
Randy,
Pink salt cure #1 is 6.25 % nitrite and is marked as being 24lbs. / 100 gal. water=3.84/oz./gal. A rounded TBSP is about 18 grams for Pop's wet cure. That is one sixth of the allowable amount. So the longer curing times that Pop's notes for his recipe is based on his PPM nitrite solution. I've seen pork bellies in commercial settings be cured and smoked and on the shelf in four days using (wet curing/injecting) directions on the bag. I guess we are curing the mass of the water and what ever covers cures whether a chicken wing or boneless pork loin. If changing PPM then that changes duration. I just got a $15 gm./oz. digital scale that is accurate (all my marked golf discs in grams from the factory match the scale.) If I try dry curing I'll be weighing proteins and then figure cure and seasonings (everything by grams) and not using tsp/Tbsp. Pop's is too easy and great so if I have a half loin I'll make a half gallon wet cure in my oval crockpot stoneware with 1.5 tsp. pink salt #1. I don't know if increasing cure PPM is exactly related to duration in liquid/dry cures. Also, I do not know how the 6.25% pink salt #1 influences the saltiness of the protein compared to the added salt to the cure. Pop's wet cure is very safe and effective for his durations at 1 rounded TBSP/gal. water. I can do the math for conversions but I'm not a chemist so I'll stick with tried and true directions.
-Kurt
atomic dog
Fire Starter
Ohh OK. Thank you @Dr K So the effect is cure time, So that explains the long long cure times I experienced with my lower curing salt recipe. I'm kind of agreeing with you that pops recipe is a no brainer and easy. I have a couple half loins ironically, and am going to try pops. I am curious if the texture or color will be any different with the higher (but still way safe) amount curing salt pops uses. Guess I will find out.
I would really like to try dry curing (just to see how it goes), but as I have no experience I think I will just stick with a wet cure for the assorted discount meats I picked up at the grocery store.
pilch
Meat Mopper
Hey Atomic Dog, make the Bearcarver your friend and learn dry curing as well.
I've only been around a short while but I use both Pop's for wet and the Bears for dry curing, Pop's for leg & shoulder hams and Bear's dry for belly and small pieces of meat.
Like everyone else I've had to contact Pop with my problems as well as the Bear and I can assure you that these guys are a power of help.
Get them smokers fired up for Christmas.
Cheers from Down Under.
I've only been around a short while but I use both Pop's for wet and the Bears for dry curing, Pop's for leg & shoulder hams and Bear's dry for belly and small pieces of meat.
Like everyone else I've had to contact Pop with my problems as well as the Bear and I can assure you that these guys are a power of help.
Get them smokers fired up for Christmas.
Cheers from Down Under.
smoking coastie
Newbie
Great recipe! Made it with a slab of belly I got at Costco. For my second batch I am substituting a quart of maple syrup for some of the water and brown sugar.
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mkriet
Smoking Fanatic
I'm curious, what does cured chicken and/or turkey taste like? Is it more like bacon or something?
Yes and no.... LOL. Sometimes folks get cured confused with brined. Or that's how I see it. Cured poultry normally involves cure added to a brine and takes a slightly longer brine time. This slightly longer brine time will with the cure will develop a slight cured or bacon taste.
I brine cure bigger birds to insure safety because of the increased smoking time at lower temperatures to insure a tender finished products.
I brine a lot of chickens, no not cure, just brine. It makes people ask how I get it so juicy, Low & slow, and a 24/36 hour brine.
If I over brine poultry I find it significantly changes the density. Everyone here says it makes the meat mushie, Me, I find it tuffens the meat. It nearly always changes density on cured turkeys.
Once you brine or cure poultry you'll never be able to just smoke on again. LOL I did a plain smoke for over 30 years. I could come home from work slap one on the smoker and have smoked chicken for supper. No muss, no fuss. The I learned here about brining, I actually have friends when invited to supper want to know if the smoked chicken was brined or not....LOL
Try it both ways and see what you think. Chickens are great to pactice on. I positively believe that a perfectly smoked chicken is a thing to serve with pride. Least expensive meat, easiest to do, and the most tasteful meat to serve.
Back to your question, if it a brine cured bird it will have a bacon/hammy flavor the longer cured the more significant the taste. A standard Brown sugar/ sugar/ salt brine with your choice of enhancements will not be hammy, but it will be juicy tender and delicious while reflecting the flavors you have chosen to enhance the flavors. Dryed herbs and spiced are best steeped to unlock the most flavor.
PS: One of the most important parts of brining poultry is insuring the formation of a a proper pellicle. Usually I plan for a 24/36 hour brine and a 12 to 24 hours rest uncovered in the reefer to form the pellicle. I have also formed the pellicle with a fan.
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mkriet
Smoking Fanatic
I'm curious, what does cured chicken and/or turkey taste like?
Thank you sir. I just smoked my first turkey this weekend, no brine, just injected it and threw it on the smoker. Turned out amazing. I'm surprised there is a way to improve on that since this was the best turkey I've ever had. Nevertheless, I'm gonna have to try curing one. I might start with a chicken and take it from there.
Thank you again for the detailed response.
remsr
Smoking Fanatic
Yah! Does chicken, turkey and beef taste like ham or bacon when you cure with sodium nitrate? And can you actually put it directly in a sausage mix? And what is the advantage or disadvantage of dry cure, compared to wet brine? Also is there any benefit to using TQ instead of pink salt? I have both plus sometihing called Sweeter then Sweet that I got from my butcher, I was told that it was much like TQ.
I used that once to make some bacon that didn't turn out because I over cooked it to a internal temp of 150, as instructed by my butcher, it did look smelled and tasted like bacon, but It fryed up like jerky. The TQ I have never used yet!
I'm asking these questions because I would like to try making bacon again and some sausages this winter and maybe brine some chicken quarters and thighs in somting other than a salt and sugar brine that works but could be better. Wet brining is easy for me but I am interested in dry cureing as well if ther is a benigit.
Oh! I would like to make some corned beef or pastrami. This winter all input would be appreciated.
Randy,
I used that once to make some bacon that didn't turn out because I over cooked it to a internal temp of 150, as instructed by my butcher, it did look smelled and tasted like bacon, but It fryed up like jerky. The TQ I have never used yet!
I'm asking these questions because I would like to try making bacon again and some sausages this winter and maybe brine some chicken quarters and thighs in somting other than a salt and sugar brine that works but could be better. Wet brining is easy for me but I am interested in dry cureing as well if ther is a benigit.
Oh! I would like to make some corned beef or pastrami. This winter all input would be appreciated.
Randy,
REMSR, morning.... The difference between TQ and Cure #1.....
When you add Cure #1 at the recommended rate of 1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat, you are adding 0.25% salt and you add more salt to your personal preference....
When adding TQ at the recommended rates.....
To ground meats for sausage, 1.5 tsp. per pound is recommended... 1.5 tsp weighs approx. 7.5 grams and is about 98% salt... I'm not sure how much or if any sugar is in it.... I don't use it.... Sooo, that's about 1.7% salt... You usually do not want to add more salt to your product.. It may be too salty...
To whole muscle products like loin for Canadian bacon, 1 TBS. or 3 tsp. are added per pound... that's about 3.5% salt... That's close to the recommended rate for drying / aging meats...
When you add Cure #1 at the recommended rate of 1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat, you are adding 0.25% salt and you add more salt to your personal preference....
When adding TQ at the recommended rates.....
To ground meats for sausage, 1.5 tsp. per pound is recommended... 1.5 tsp weighs approx. 7.5 grams and is about 98% salt... I'm not sure how much or if any sugar is in it.... I don't use it.... Sooo, that's about 1.7% salt... You usually do not want to add more salt to your product.. It may be too salty...
To whole muscle products like loin for Canadian bacon, 1 TBS. or 3 tsp. are added per pound... that's about 3.5% salt... That's close to the recommended rate for drying / aging meats...
I'll let Dave & others tell you about cure #1, because I don't use it.
I'll just tell you my experiences with TQ:
Using the proper amount of TQ for whole meat (1 TBS or 1/2 ounce per pound), along with 1 tsp to 1 TBS of Brown sugar per pound, I have never had any whole meat (Bacon, CB, Dried Beef, etc) that was too salty. All I do is soak the product for 20 minutes to a half hour after curing, to remove the surface salt.
For Ground meat, I use 1/2 TBS (1 1/2 tsp or 1/4 ounce) per pound, and I have thought about adding more salt, because there is ZERO signs of salt in the finished product, but I have not added any, due to a Dr caused Kidney problem. However for that same reason, I don't add salt to anything, including Steak, Eggs, Taters, etc.
Bear
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