PID controllers.. geeky question

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CheapSmoker

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Nov 10, 2011
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Mokena, il
Does anyone know the specifics of how they work programming wise? I do building automation for a living and part of my job entails tuning PID loops. In HVAC though we do not use direvitive and I was curious if they use it in BBQ. Does anyone ever have issues with them swinging?
 
Does anyone know the specifics of how they work programming wise? I do building automation for a living and part of my job entails tuning PID loops. In HVAC though we do not use direvitive and I was curious if they use it in BBQ. Does anyone ever have issues with them swinging?

I've adjusted it before to see if it impacts the overshoot. With my electric smoker I really didn't see any real value in doing this. Actually, I ended up doing a auto tune which gave me a +- 3 degree swing. Though, I would think on a stick or charcoal smoker. Adjusting the derivative may be beneficial.
 
Does anyone know the specifics of how they work programming wise? I do building automation for a living and part of my job entails tuning PID loops. In HVAC though we do not use direvitive and I was curious if they use it in BBQ. Does anyone ever have issues with them swinging?
I have mine on a 30 " MES . D controls the recovery time from temp drop . I have mine set up to go into full power when the door is opened . Comes back to temp pretty quick with no over run .

Once I got P and I adjusted where I wanted them , I had smoker running at set temp . Opened the door and watch the power light . Increase the value of D until the light stays on steady .
Closed the door and waited for the light to blink and compared that to how close I was to set temp . To far away , increase the number . To close back it down a bit .
 
I have mine on a 30 " MES . D controls the recovery time from temp drop . I have mine set up to go into full power when the door is opened . Comes back to temp pretty quick with no over run .

Once I got P and I adjusted where I wanted them , I had smoker running at set temp . Opened the door and watch the power light . Increase the value of D until the light stays on steady .
Closed the door and waited for the light to blink and compared that to how close I was to set temp . To far away , increase the number . To close back it down a bit .
So does it give you the ability to actually change the PID numbers separately and the interval? And that makes sense for D as I was always taught it was correction for "future". Im still curious if it's actually needed as I controls hot water valves and gas heating valves strictly with PI controls. I might have to get one to play around with one day. Im sure I could use one of my work controls to test as well. Thanks
 
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I've adjusted it before to see if it impacts the overshoot. With my electric smoker I really didn't see any real value in doing this. Actually, I ended up doing a auto tune which gave me a +- 3 degree swing. Though, I would think on a stick or charcoal smoker. Adjusting the derivative may be beneficial.
We have an auto tune for our software but it always pushes wacky PID values that sometimes kinda work. I will have to grab some cutsheets on these and check them out. Thanks
 
So does it give you the ability to actually change the PID numbers separately and the interval?
Yes . I'm familiar with your line of work . Commercial Carpenter . Been around " you guys " many times .
I have an Auber 1510 ELPM plug and play .
All the values are adjustable separately , or can be turned off . Auto tune for me was way out of whack .
 
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Yes . I'm familiar with your line of work . Commercial Carpenter . Been around " you guys " many times .
I have an Auber 1510 ELPM plug and play .
All the values are adjustable separately , or can be turned off . Auto tune for me was way out of whack .
That's pretty sweet then just the challenge to tune one would be enough for me to want one haha. Thank you again!
 
So I was just reading the manual on that auber, it seems they do some of the math for you. Actually the whole aspect seems different than what I normally deal with. It seems somewhat simplified however I don't know that I could apply my same tuning aspect to it.
It doesn't say if P calculates continuously or not but im going to assume it does. The Integral is in seconds which is different. And they have a cycle time instead of an interval.

Definately going to look into this more on the math side
 
P is in degrees .
I and D are seconds .
Can't speak of the math , not my thing .
I looked at some of the manual , and " translated " it into laymen terms .
Set I and D to 0 , and adjusted P until I was close a decent heat up time , without much over run .
Then set I ( D still at 0 ) to control the charge of P to control over run . Like putting the brakes on .
Then like said above , I cycled the door and set D .
You can set these up several different ways . I have a program set for sausage , hams and bacon .
 
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PID is just a means of error signal conditioning. A classic PI controller uses a proportional gain stage and an integral stage to produce smooth regulation.

A controller that has only P- proportional gain will control the temperature around the set point but will over and undershoot in inverse proportion to the error gain.

Adding the I- integral stage gives the circuit a means to adjust based on trends. i.e. as the error signal increases, the proportional stage will adjust the heater turn on and off timing to smooth out the bumps from a strictly proportional system. This works very well but has a limitation in responding to sudden changes in the error signal as the proportional gain is fixed.

Adding D - derivative gain allows the controller to act like it has a dual gain proportional stage.

All of these derive their control functions from setting the gains to match the performance of whatever it is you are controlling.

In the case of an electric generator the system timing for control is going to be in the millisecond range. In the case of a smoker this gain timing will be in minutes.

I don't know about other controllers on the market but my Black Cat controllers have an auto tune function which measures the timing of your system and sets the PID gains appropriately. You can also set the parameters individually if you wish.

Even with a PID controller, a smoker with high PID gains will tend to overshoot before settling into regulation.

I have designed and built PID and PI control loops for a number of purposes.

JC :emoji_cat:
 
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