Pastrami Oz style - First attempt - with pics!

[stewiejp]

I may regret this but having a go at pastrami for the first time ever and thought it a good idea to document the process here. Thanks that those who answered my beginner questions on curing salts, it got the brain matter working and encouraged a bit of research on the numbers, percentages, and processes. It took me a while but I worked out where my confusion lay - the differences in amounts of curing salt in recipes differed wildly - mainly because I was comparing wet and dry recipes which obviously had different volumes to allow for the water in the bucket! Makes perfect sense once the penny drops!

Previously to this I have smoked a lot of briskets since discovering them a number of years ago now. When I started they were not all that popular in Australia other than to those in the know. When I was in the butcher shop (nearly 20 years ago) the vast majority of briskets ended up either diced or ground with the odd one rolled. Now I believe it is the opposite - my favourite butcher always carries them and they sell well whole or halved, and the previous butcher I went to (now closed) often ran out. I not only use them for smoking but also slow cooking in winter - Beef Burgundy (aka bœuf bourguignon) does very well with a brisket! I have a small mincer on the kitchen aid so the bits and pieces don't go to waste. Prior to that our four legged friend loved it when I prepared brisket!

Process so far: I had a 1.1kg flat in the freezer and the good lady suggested I use that rather than risk a full brisket. Smart lady that one. Thursday was my day off this week so I pulled it out that evening and got the brine ready last night (Friday night). Recipe below taken from one of those online calculators:

Beef Brisket 1.1kg
Water 3L
*Curing Salt 22.47g
Salt 84.44g
Sugar 42.5g

*Curing Salt I bought online before I realised 6.25% was the norm, this one is 2.95% - the online calculator I found allowed this variable to be adjusted (nice).
I boiled the water first and dissolved the salts and sugar in there - whilst it was cooling down I scrubbed the container clean and rinsed it well - that did not take long and the water was still hot so I spent the next six hours drinking ice cold beer, playing computer games and enjoying the cool change. It has been a hot summer here with 40+ days (that's 100+ deg F). I added a few spices because there's a lot in the cupboard and I wanted to use some up (Cinnamon, mustard seeds, coriander seeds and cloves from memory) - will make a rub closer to next weekend or use my current BBQ rub that I have in there (S&P, Paprika, onion/garlic powder, with and without sugar).

The plan is to brine it until next weekend and smoke it then. I use a Traeger pellet smoker which has served us well for close to ten years I think.

Pic attached because even though I am a photography nut, I've never photographed food - maybe this will change with these projects!
If I have missed something glaringlyh obvious feel free to yell out, apologies for the essay!


Stay well and have an awesome weekend!

 

[stewiejp]

Pic did not work - file too big... probably another newbie mistake! 80's peanut butter jar (koala) decided to photo bomb the pic - brisket in the tub...

 

[normanaj]

In for the finish!

 

[DRKsmoking]

Also riding along with this for the outcome.

David

 

[thirdeye]

Off to a good start . I too like to add a lot of aromatics to the brine simply because you are making 'corned beef' not just cured beef and it has a distinct flavor. Smoking it for pastrami takes corned beef to another level.

 

[voyager 663rd]

great write up. Really enjoy stories and not just 'facts'

 

[millerbuilds]

I'm in for the ride!

- Jason

 

[stewiejp]

Glad people are entertained - it has been a rather uneventful week! As per instructions I have been turning the brisket every day or so, and I must say it smells amazing - the spices really doing their job! - but did not present itself for any amazing photo opportunities - until now...

As I write this after a solid "left over pizza" night with home made polenta chips (fries) which was a result of a google search after seeing a post on "grits" (we have never heard of that down here!) - bought some polenta for the first time and the girl at the register asked if I was making polenta chips (fries) because he kids loved them - so we did and it went well, but I digress.
Anyhoo - that has nothing to do with the pastrami.... it is very early Sunday morning (1am) here, and the sangria started about 8 hours ago and was followed by a lot of beer. No apologies. Brisket has been in the brine about a week, late Friday night after work I changed the brine for water and during the day changed the water every 2 hours or so. Late Saturday afternoon got rid of the water and pat dried the brisket... still smells amazing! I figured it probably does not need any salt so added some of my leftover Christmas rub that I used on our Christmas ham. I used this because it did not have any salt in it - obviously also not needed on the Christmas ham. I kept a few small jars of it to give to the family at the time but again... wine + summer + beer + stewiejp = one forgetful lad who forgot to hand it out after lunch! Yes, I get distracted a lot...

Right. Brisket out of the H2O, pat dried and seasoned with the Christmas Seasoning (from memory paprika - did I tell the paprika story? - brown sugar, probably onion and garlic powder, maybe pepper - I think that's about it - why do they charge so much for pre made rubs again? haha .

So - seasoned and left overnight - the plan is to smoke it whenever I wake up tomorrow (today) - let's see if the pics work! What TF is the size of the pics required? I have resizes literally by 98%...

 

[stewiejp]

Attempt at adding more pix

 

[stewiejp]

ok - clearly the issue with the pictures is a per post thing rather than a "per pic" size thing... here goes - or maybe not

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I fixed the pics for you.

 

[stewiejp]

Thanks BGKYSmoker - really appreciate it - I *think* I just noticed the "insert image" button just up there - to be fair it was 136am when I posted the ones above, and after a 40 deg C day (100F - I think) - I likely hydrated more than was necessary. Starting on the sangria was a great idea, followed by more than a few local beers.

Still - up early today (Sunday) and about to hit the start button. Removed the brisket from the fridge, let it sit on the bench for a while, the rub has sort of liquified in parts, brown sugar does that - but it still looks and smells pretty good.

Still not far off 30 deg C at 9am but the forecast is for a milder day than yesterday. Initially the plan was to smoke it on Saturday but that's illegal at times (weather, fire danger etc) so planned according to the weather man. Generally I put a full brisket on the smoker on a Friday night before bed - for Saturday night's dinner. The Traeger's good for that - since buying it the Weber is a real handy place to hang the smoker's cover.

The plan is to start her on low/smoke I think it's 82 deg C (180F) for a couple of hours while I get the shopping done and let it take on a bit of smoke. Then to 107 (225F) until it hits 70 odd - wrap it in butchers paper for the ride to the end. Will add a pan of water for that steamy goodness....

Watch this space

 

[jcam222]

In for the rest of the ride

 

[stewiejp]

(Monday morning 4am here) - Last night we had some of the pastrami for dinner, was it a success or not? Whilst I don't think it was, it certainly was not a failure but in essence I think what we had for dinner was essentially brisket. It did not come out like it cured at all - it tasted like it was cured (sort of) but did not have that pinky colour. Here's how it looked when we wrapped it:

and although it did slow a bit during the stall once wrapped and the temp increased to 135 deg C (275F) it came along nicely

Took it out at about 100 (212F), gave it a rest

Here's how it looked in the end:

See what I mean? I'll be having some left over for lunch to see how it tastes cold, but I think between now and next time I'll investigate curing salt levels and if there is room to add more than I did. From memory "Old Pop's" heaped tablespoon for a gallon of water (3.8L) was considerably higher than the online calculator I used for my 3.1L, even though the curing salt I bought is half the strength of proper PP#1.

Original numbers to recap:
Beef Brisket 1.1kg
Water 3L
*Curing Salt 22.47g (2.95%)
Salt 84.44g
Sugar 42.5g

Calculations taken from the following online calculator https://www.localfoodheroes.com/universal-cure-calculator/#more-1561
(water actually turned out to be a bit over 3L which is why the numbers are slightly out if you put the above numbers into the calculator but I did not write this figure down!)

Curing salt if 6.25% would have been only 11g in round figures. Guessing a "heaped tbsp" is around 20g (Pop's brine) - that's nearly 2x the curing salt for an increase in only 30% water, which could indicate there is plenty of room for more cure. Unless I am reading things incorrectly - OR I could have measured my ingredients incorrectly which I doubt.

Positive: It was a great learning experienced, and dinner did still taste good!
Negative: I think we ended up with lightly brined brisket rather than pastrami itself. My 4am Monday morning brain is still waking up but it looks like I should have used more curing salt... will try Pop's next time!

 

[tallbm]

(Monday morning 4am here) - Last night we had some of the pastrami for dinner, was it a success or not? Whilst I don't think it was, it certainly was not a failure but in essence I think what we had for dinner was essentially brisket. It did not come out like it cured at all - it tasted like it was cured (sort of) but did not have that pinky colour. Here's how it looked when we wrapped it:

View attachment 713657

and although it did slow a bit during the stall once wrapped and the temp increased to 135 deg C (275F) it came along nicely

View attachment 713658

Took it out at about 100 (212F), gave it a rest

View attachment 713659

Here's how it looked in the end:

View attachment 713660

View attachment 713661

View attachment 713662

See what I mean? I'll be having some left over for lunch to see how it tastes cold, but I think between now and next time I'll investigate curing salt levels and if there is room to add more than I did. From memory "Old Pop's" heaped tablespoon for a gallon of water (3.8L) was considerably higher than the online calculator I used for my 3.1L, even though the curing salt I bought is half the strength of proper PP#1.

Original numbers to recap:
Beef Brisket 1.1kg
Water 3L
*Curing Salt 22.47g (2.95%)
Salt 84.44g
Sugar 42.5g

Calculations taken from the following online calculator https://www.localfoodheroes.com/universal-cure-calculator/#more-1561
(water actually turned out to be a bit over 3L which is why the numbers are slightly out if you put the above numbers into the calculator but I did not write this figure down!)

Curing salt if 6.25% would have been only 11g in round figures. Guessing a "heaped tbsp" is around 20g (Pop's brine) - that's nearly 2x the curing salt for an increase in only 30% water, which could indicate there is plenty of room for more cure. Unless I am reading things incorrectly - OR I could have measured my ingredients incorrectly which I doubt.

Positive: It was a great learning experienced, and dinner did still taste good!
Negative: I think we ended up with lightly brined brisket rather than pastrami itself. My 4am Monday morning brain is still waking up but it looks like I should have used more curing salt... will try Pop's next time!

I was just checking through the thread and noticed in the 1st post you said you boiled water and dissolved the salts and sugars in it. It's my understanding that if you boil or overheat cure#1 you basically deactivate it.

If you dissolved it in boiling or very very hot water then this might explain the mystery of why your beef did not come out so cured.

In all it looked great and I bet it ate great, so the only downside is that you ended up with a great tasting dish that wasn't what you intended to make. I understand that is still disappointing but hey, it's always nice to eat good tasting mistakes :D

Keep it up man, you'll get this nailed. Rarely do we nail things on the first few attempts :D

 

[stewiejp]

I was just checking through the thread and noticed in the 1st post you said you boiled water and dissolved the salts and sugars in it. It's my understanding that if you boil or overheat cure#1 you basically deactivate it.

If you dissolved it in boiling or very very hot water then this might explain the mystery of why your beef did not come out so cured.

In all it looked great and I bet it ate great, so the only downside is that you ended up with a great tasting dish that wasn't what you intended to make. I understand that is still disappointing but hey, it's always nice to eat good tasting mistakes :D

Keep it up man, you'll get this nailed. Rarely do we nail things on the first few attempts :D

Thank you so much tallbm! That makes perfect sense! Take 2 I'll just make it in cold water to avoid this. You are correct it tasted fine, just like brisket with a very very slight cure taste that was hardly noticeable.
Appreciate the tip. Looking forward to next time.

 

[chopsaw]

I was just checking through the thread and noticed in the 1st post you said you boiled water and dissolved the salts and sugars in it. It's my understanding that if you boil or overheat cure#1 you basically deactivate it.

There will be some opinions on that . Mine ? I agree with tallbm . You can boil to dissolve the sugars and such , just cool it down before you add the cure .
Also , I didn't read through everything above , but I'm seeing Pop's brine for 8 days ? If so , my opinion is that's not long enough to completely cure that meat .
Since it looks like it didn't cure at all I'm with Carlo , that the cure was boiled out of the mix .
I just did a small hunk last week . I used Tender quick as the curing agent .
Fully smoked IT was 205 .

When you get ready to do the next one , check back in with your plan .
Plenty of help and ways to do it .
I bet it was good though . Sure look like it .

BTW , I have a good friend that's Australian .

 

[stewiejp]

Love the puppy chopsaw - and agree re the boiling.
No, I did not use Pop's brine but made note that Pop's seemed to have a lot more curing salt in it than mine did - and that could have been a contributing factor. I used one of those online calculators (after a considerable amount of googling) to determine the amounts used - which indicated 3 to 5 days.
I would have thought a week would have been enough - it was only a 1kg piece of brisket in 3L of water. Will go for longer next time - thanks again!

 

[chopsaw]

Love the puppy

She's smarter than most people I know .

will try Pop's next time!

I use it for poultry . I mix it at this ratio
1 gallon water
1/2 cup of salt . I use canning , small grain .
1/2 cup brown sugar
1/2 cup white sugar
1 TBL cure 1
1 tsp lemon extract .
That's for poultry .I inject and soak overnight . If I want to fully cure the bird , I inject and go 10 to 12 days .

So if doing pastrami start with ,
1 gallon water
1/2 cup of salt
1 TBL of cure one .
Then whatever spice profile you want for the beef .

Some guys like to weigh the water , and the meat to get the amounts of the ther ingredients .
I personally don't do it that way , but if that's what you want to do , someone will help you with that .

 

[tallbm]

Thank you so much tallbm! That makes perfect sense! Take 2 I'll just make it in cold water to avoid this. You are correct it tasted fine, just like brisket with a very very slight cure taste that was hardly noticeable.
Appreciate the tip. Looking forward to next time.

No problem, I hope it helps for the next attempt :D

What I do is I put room temperature water in the blender and blend everything, ensuring my blender isn't heating and boiling the water lol. This is how I dissolve it without heat.
Next on big pieces of meat I am curing or brining, put the meat and liquid in the curing tub/container.
Then I take a meat marinade injection syringe and draw the liquid from the tub and inject the heck out of the big hunk of meat all over! Like you cannot over do this. Also if you did an equilibrium cure you know that after the cure time it will not be too salty or too bland (well if u use 1.65% salt it won't) should you have happened to get more salty liquid injected down into the meat.

The salt and cure travels 1/4 inch (6.35mm) every 24 hours so you will get 1/4 inch top to bottom and 1/4 inch bottom to top giving you a total 1/2 inch (12.7mm/1.27cm) of travel every 24 hours. So if your meat is 3 inches (76.2mm or 7.62cm) at the thickest point it would take 6 days minimum and then give it another 1-2 days to make sure it cures all the way through.
If you inject all over then it will travel even faster because salt and cure are also traveling inside-out instead of just outside-in.


For boiling your salt and sugar, you can do like others have mentioned and keep your curing salt out of the boiling salt and sugar and wait for it to cool down to add in your curing salt. I'm just not one for waiting and I just blender it all and it doesn't have to be perfect with the blender approach. Like 70% dissolved or better is fine and it will naturally dissolve to 100% in no time on it's own from there.

I think you using the calculator that lets you adjust your cure with your Australian nitrite % is smart to stick with since our USA cure#1 is a different at 6.25%.

Feel free to practice on something like a whole chicken, chicken parts, or pork loin and you will get good practice in on cheap meats that taste amazing. If you get those down then you just move on up to another brisket and I would encourage you also inject on such a big piece of meat. It's mandatory to inject on very large less flat pieces like a pork butt or or back leg pork ham to ensure the cure and salt travels all the way through to the deep parts of the meat.

I hope this info helps :D