Nitrate/Nitrite Discussion

[SmokinEdge]

Thank you @Cajuneric for your time and lengthy response, that took a lot of ink and time. I will read through the links you provided.

 

[steveski]

I have tried smoked sausage with every imaginable form of nitr*tes. prague #1 seems to give me the best results with color/texture. I hate rosemary, maybe it's psychological, but i could taste it, in my sausage, and nobody else could, when i used the rosemary based chemical free stuff. My fresh sausage never gets nitr*tes. I tried corned beef with celery for nitrates and it tasted great but was too grey, eat with your eyes as well as your nose and mouth. by the way my grandmother just used a pinch, literally a pinch, of salt peter mixed with a tablespoonish, palm measuring method, of non iodized salt for "5lbs" of meat never saw her use a measuring device but her stuff was exactly the same every time. IMO i don't think it matters where the nitr*tes come from we consume them daily in all our veggies that suck them up with their roots from manufactured fertilizers. Anyone concerned with nitr*tes should give up wine :)

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Way way to much rocket science for me. I'll stick to my way.

 

[Simi Kay]

It contains rosemary extract, which, wait for it, contains nitrates much like celery powder.

They have posted the specific amount of nitrites and nitrates in this product. I do not remember how much, but it is very little, just as much as you would find in other normal spices. That is not what keeps the food safe, it is the PREs that make this a safe product, watch Eric's vid if you want more info, he has done a lot of research.

 

[Simi Kay]

So this is at the root of what I’m asking. What properties of this cure will do:

1) control botulism

2) retain the pink or red color of meat.

These things are or were only known to be performed by the use of nitrites And its reduction. So what exactly is this secretive new concoction of extracts? What have we all been missing? This is the nuts and bolts of this thread. What is it and how does it work, because its defying known science.

It is a completely different science, although not completely new, some companies have been using them for quite some time to make bacon. As Eric states, there are no problems with him, eating nitrites, but he knows that many people are scared of nitrites, and therefore tells them this new option. You can watch Eric's video on it, there he explains it well.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If polyphenols are the key, then just synthesize the polyphenols, determine the effective amount for curing, sell the pure chemical polyphenol cure, and stop with the rosemary-and-whatever-exotic-fruit extract all-natural mumbo jumbo.

 

[Simi Kay]

If polyphenols are the key, then just synthesize the polyphenols, determine the effective amount for curing, sell the pure chemical polyphenol cure, and stop with the rosemary-and-whatever-exotic-fruit extract all-natural mumbo jumbo.

Many of us do want a chemical-free product, we do not always look after the most synthesized, processed, and unnatural products. Therefore the little taste of rosemary does not do anything, besides, I have never been able to taste it.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Way too much rocket science for me.
I dont build war planes anymore.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Many of us do want a chemical-free product, we do not always look after the most synthesized, processed, and unnatural products. Therefore the little taste of rosemary does not do anything, besides, I have never been able to taste it.

I understand. I'm just venting my frustration like others here that the chemical mechanism underlying the "natural extract" needs to be investigated, quantified, etc., so it can be used in a more controlled way, as have many beneficial chemicals used in food science. That is what food science is about. Processing foods and synthesizing compounds originally found in nature are what enables us to feed the world, safely. I am here to learn how to cure meat based on the science.

Also, I see nothing un-natural about chemicals. The whole world is made up of chemicals. Whether it's celery extract or purified nitrate, rosemary extract or polyphenols or whatever, whether the chemical is carried inside something else or available in pure form, doesn't make it more natural or less natural, as I see it.

 

[Smoke-Chem BBQ]

Also, I see nothing un-natural about chemicals. The whole world is made up of chemicals. Whether it's celery extract or purified nitrate, rosemary extract or polyphenols or whatever, whether the chemical is carried inside something else or available in pure form, doesn't make it more natural or less natural, as I see it.

Yep, that's a pet peeve of all chemists. To claim a product is 'chemical free' means the container can hold nothing more than a perfect vacuum.

When talking about a single, active ingredient, It makes no difference if it was made and purified in a lab or extracted and purified from a natural source.

Where the natural sources differ is that they often aren't purified to a single ingredient; an herbal prep or extract or whatever is usually left as a complex mixture of all kinds of stuff. Sometimes that's good, the other ingredients may also have a positive effect (for example, peanuts have a bunch of related polyphenols in them). Sometimes it doesn't matter. Sometimes the other ingredients are harmful (for example, does your peanut extract also contain the potent carcinogen aflatoxin A?). There is no hard and fast rule, these things must be determined by testing.

 

[indaswamp]

I will add this from a Ph.D. Metabolic research scientist. Very nuanced discussion....

 

[SmokinEdge]

I will add this from a Ph.D. Metabolic research scientist. Very nuanced discussion....

Excellent video. Thanks for posting

 

[Fueling Around]

One of the few 25 minute youtube videos I have watched the entirety. It actually has 25 minutes of content and not 20 minutes of non related monologue.
The downside is once again another vlog of someone that wants to sell something.

 

[Brokenhandle]

One of the few 25 minute youtube videos I have watched the entirety. It actually has 25 minutes of content and not 20 minutes of non related monologue.
The downside is once again another vlog of someone that wants to sell something.

Sounds like you need to be enabled!

Ryan

 

[Fueling Around]

Sounds like you need to be enabled!

Ryan

Ryan
I want to be enlightened. Then I can choose if enabled follows.