Newbie about to purchase first smoker (MES) – advice wanted!!

[LaLaMatt]

Hi Folks,

So I have no experience in smoking other than the very occasional chip-stuffed aluminum pouch shoved into my gas grill! I have a love for ribs/brisket/pulled pork, and have decided for my birthday later this month, I’d like to get a smoker. After reading numerous online guides/recommendations, and as budget is an issue for me, it looks like a MES might be ideal for me.

I spent a great deal of time reading Amazon reviews on the various different models, and got a good deal confused between the various models, what’s new, what’s changed, what works, etc. Then I found this forum, and have spent a many hours reading about the different generations of MES, mods, adaptions, and such like. Just terrific information here for someone trying to learn about this stuff.

What I’m hoping to do is get my ducks in a row as to exactly what I should be looking to get, to give myself the best chance of good smoking results right away, then the week before my birthday is Black Friday – I search around, hopefully find a good deal on a good model, and pounce!

I’ve read over and over about how everyone should get a 40”, and those that get 30” normally end up upgrading. Sadly, there is a substantial price jump between the 30 and 40, and my budget for everything is $200 – so unless I get a crazy black Friday deal, I think I will have to make do with the 30”. I am a family of 3, so I think that would be enough – it’d be nice to have the larger unit for events, but oh well.

So, based on my reading, here’s what I think I need to target:

-Gen 2.5 or Gen 1. 30” MES

-A-MAZE-N 5x8 pellet smoker

-Bag of pellets

How does that sound in terms of getting me off and running and hopefully producing decent results early on? I intend to stick to ‘Bears step by step’ guides!!

In terms of identifying the correct generation, as all are still sold, I’ve read, and re-read all the identifying marks. The tell-tail seems to be the accessories around the heating element – I made this chart which I've hopefully correctly attached to this post – do I have this right?:

Anyhow, am I on the right track? Anything I’ve gotten wrong or missing? Additional items I should consider having right away?

Greatly appreciate any advice!!

Matt

 

[thebig1]

At Sam's Club right now the MES 40" with Bluetooth is $50 instant savings which makes it $279. I too was in your situation but pulled the trigger last week and got one.

 

[GaryHibbert]

Hey Matt. Welcome.
IMO you can't go wrong with a MES. I've been using a MES 30 GEN 1 for years and love it. It'll do everything you want. Just don't expect a smoke ring--can't taste it anyway--or too much in the way of bark.
There's usually just Miss Linda and me eating so room isn't really a factor. There's enough room for a 10 to 12 pound turkey, a full packer (point on 1 rack and flat below it), a couple of butts, lots of chicken parts, pork chops, a ham.......
Sure, a MES 40 might be a bit more convenient for you but a 30 should work just fine.
Afraid I couldn't open your attached file and don't know a whole lot about the Gen 2.5 but Bearcarver is the expert on that--what say you John??
With the MES, AMNPS and pellets you're pretty much good to go. The only other thing you'll need is a good digital remote therm and (if it's in the budget) an inexpensive Instant Read therm (my Weber inst read cost $12 at Home Depot). The MES factory therms are notoriously inaccurate so don't trust them!!!
Enjoy your MES 30.

 

[Bearcarver]

Hi Folks,

So I have no experience in smoking other than the very occasional chip-stuffed aluminum pouch shoved into my gas grill! I have a love for ribs/brisket/pulled pork, and have decided for my birthday later this month, I’d like to get a smoker. After reading numerous online guides/recommendations, and as budget is an issue for me, it looks like a MES might be ideal for me.

I spent a great deal of time reading Amazon reviews on the various different models, and got a good deal confused between the various models, what’s new, what’s changed, what works, etc. Then I found this forum, and have spent a many hours reading about the different generations of MES, mods, adaptions, and such like. Just terrific information here for someone trying to learn about this stuff.

What I’m hoping to do is get my ducks in a row as to exactly what I should be looking to get, to give myself the best chance of good smoking results right away, then the week before my birthday is Black Friday – I search around, hopefully find a good deal on a good model, and pounce!

I’ve read over and over about how everyone should get a 40”, and those that get 30” normally end up upgrading. Sadly, there is a substantial price jump between the 30 and 40, and my budget for everything is $200 – so unless I get a crazy black Friday deal, I think I will have to make do with the 30”. I am a family of 3, so I think that would be enough – it’d be nice to have the larger unit for events, but oh well.

So, based on my reading, here’s what I think I need to target:

-Gen 2.5 or Gen 1. 30” MES

-A-MAZE-N 5x8 pellet smoker

-Bag of pellets

How does that sound in terms of getting me off and running and hopefully producing decent results early on? I intend to stick to ‘Bears step by step’ guides!!

In terms of identifying the correct generation, as all are still sold, I’ve read, and re-read all the identifying marks. The tell-tail seems to be the accessories around the heating element – I made this chart which I've hopefully correctly attached to this post – do I have this right?:View attachment 342983

Anyhow, am I on the right track? Anything I’ve gotten wrong or missing? Additional items I should consider having right away?

Greatly appreciate any advice!!

Matt

Hi Matt,
The 3 Pic Comparison you show there is Spot on, so you probably don't need this, but here is my experience with all 3:
Masterbuilt Smokers (Bear's Thoughts & Findings)
MES Generation Number Recognition Pictures & Pics (Digital Units)


And if you can find a Buy like "thebig1" did (above), you'll be getting a Great Buy!!

Bear

 

[browneyesvictim]

Listen to Bear. All good advice there. But in my opinion in the 30' size the Gen 1 (20070910) is a better choice than the new Gen 2.5 (20071117). Now if you go with a 40" MES that may not be the case. There is more room in those for the tray.

1. The 5x8 tray will not fit inside the 30" 2.5 as it was designed for the Gen 1. You would need to get creative to fit it or else do a mailbox mod or go for the masterbuilt cold smoke attachment.
2. It is well documented the electronics are poor in the Masterbuilts so why pay for them. In fact I'm surprised the analog (non-digital) units are not more popular on this site and elsewhere for this reason. (disclaimer- I have no experience with them though.)
3. You need a good digital remote therm anyway, so put you money to good use on third party one. and forsake the Masterbuilt probe and temp control and Bluetooth.

Anyway, good luck and look forward to your cooks!

 

[LaLaMatt]

terrific - thanks folks - sounds like i'm on the right tracks anyhow - I have a couple of specific questions:

-Q1 - Venting holes- I note on some models, the hole is on the right top as you look at the front door, others the hole is on the left top, and I think I've seen one where it was on the left hand side. Does this make much of a difference - and if so, which one should I look for/avoid?

-Q2 - Thermometers - thanks garyhibbert for the reminder on thermometers. I'm a little confused on the two types though. Right now for other cooking I use a thermometer with a long wire and a probe - for inserting into meat. I assume I can use that ok in the smoker. The other type is needed to monitor the temp in the smoker itself as the MES system is unreliable, correct? But how is that type of thermometer different...or is it? Can I simply get the same type of wired meat probe thermometer I have and lay it on one of the racks? For reference, the thermometer I currently have looks similar to this: http://a.co/bM6z6q1

-Q3 - Mailbox mod - I've heard this discussed a lot and found pictures of it. I understand it pipes smoke from the A-MAZE-N into the smoker, but I don't understand why it is necessary, as others have discussed the A-MAZE-N works well placed next to the heat element or on the bottom shelf?

thanks again!
Matt

 

[LaLaMatt]

Listen to Bear. All good advice there. But in my opinion in the 30' size the Gen 1 (20070910) is a better choice than the new Gen 2.5 (20071117). Now if you go with a 40" MES that may not be the case. There is more room in those for the tray.

1. The 5x8 tray will not fit inside the 30" 2.5 as it was designed for the Gen 1. You would need to get creative to fit it or else do a mailbox mod or go for the masterbuilt cold smoke attachment.
2. It is well documented the electronics are poor in the Masterbuilts so why pay for them. In fact I'm surprised the analog (non-digital) units are not more popular on this site and elsewhere for this reason. (disclaimer- I have no experience with them though.)
3. You need a good digital remote therm anyway, so put you money to good use on third party one. and forsake the Masterbuilt probe and temp control and Bluetooth.

Anyway, good luck and look forward to your cooks!

browneyesvictim - thanks for the input - is your recommendation of the Gen 1 just about the placement of the smoke tray, or do you have other reasons for preferring it?

 

[jted]

Hi I agree with everything browneyesvictim said above. I have used a 20070910 for 3 or 4 years. If you wait just a little longer they will go on sale 150 to 160.00. Just remember it is just a box with a heat source. Everything else is just lipstick. Using the AMPS and a good thermometer is all you need to smoke great Q. As browneyesvictimstated Masterbuilts thermometers are spotty at best. Why pay for something that may not work. A Analog smoker might be a good starting point. Your interior temperatures will fluctuate at least 10 degrees on either side of your set point. That is normal Your meat won't mind. You will hear people a pid controller to steady your cooking temps. In my opinion in most cases you don't need one. have one and it is nice but not necessarily needed. I get great bark since I don't usually use foil except with Ribs. These have been my opinions and other members may disagree with my thoughts. If you have questions all you need to do is just ask. Post or send it to a member. Jted

 

[Bearcarver]

The Analog Smoker is not insulated. Also no remote.
To use an AMNPS in an Analog, you would have to drill holes in the bottom for air flow.
If it has to be an MES 30, so be it---I just hate seeing people do what I did---Get the 30, and then get the 40 a year later, because the 30 was too small for some of the things I like to smoke for the 2 of us.
Everything else is at my (above) Links.

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

terrific - thanks folks - sounds like i'm on the right tracks anyhow - I have a couple of specific questions:

Bear's answers in RED:
-Q1 - Venting holes- I note on some models, the hole is on the right top as you look at the front door, others the hole is on the left top, and I think I've seen one where it was on the left hand side. Does this make much of a difference - and if so, which one should I look for/avoid?
The only thing really wrong with the Gen #1 is in fact that Top Vent "Hole". Because it's on the right, I had to put a deflector in the bottom of mine for 6 years to push the heat to the left, because it wanted to go straight up the right side & out the Right Top Vent. The Gen #2.5 doesn't have this problem because it's top vent is on the left side of the Top.
I wouldn't sacrifice a Better working Smoker (Gen #2.5) for one that has a special place for my AMNPS (Gen #1). Like you & I know---Gen #1 is Good, but Gen #2.5 is Best.
Also Don't worry about whether the Gen #2 top Vent is on the Top or on the Side---Just stay away from that one completely--It's a problem unit due to the interior configuration.

-Q2 - Thermometers - thanks garyhibbert for the reminder on thermometers. I'm a little confused on the two types though. Right now for other cooking I use a thermometer with a long wire and a probe - for inserting into meat. I assume I can use that ok in the smoker. The other type is needed to monitor the temp in the smoker itself as the MES system is unreliable, correct? But how is that type of thermometer different...or is it? Can I simply get the same type of wired meat probe thermometer I have and lay it on one of the racks? For reference, the thermometer I currently have looks similar to this: http://a.co/bM6z6q1
What you should have is the ability to monitor both the Smoker Temp & the Internal Meat Temp, without having to open the door. It should be accurate & easy to verify it's accuracy. A Maverick ET-732 does this, as do other wireless therm sets for more or less $$$.

-Q3 - Mailbox mod - I've heard this discussed a lot and found pictures of it. I understand it pipes smoke from the A-MAZE-N into the smoker, but I don't understand why it is necessary, as others have discussed the A-MAZE-N works well placed next to the heat element or on the bottom shelf? I have never needed a mailbox on any of my MES units. I put the AMNPS on the support rods in the bottom of my MES 30 & 40 Gen #1s, and I currently put it on the right end of the bottom rack in my MES 40 Gen #2.5, and it has always worked great.

thanks again!
Matt

Bear

 

[browneyesvictim]

LaLaMatt-

browneyesvictim - thanks for the input - is your recommendation of the Gen 1 just about the placement of the smoke tray, or do you have other reasons for preferring it?

You are asking very good questions. When reviewing all the threads on all the different models of MES units there are so many ifs, and or buts depending on the size and generation. I agree with almost all of what Bears advice is. He has tested them and has way more experience with them than me. Yours and his ranking difference of 1-2-3 above is correct for the 40" units. My experience has been entirely with the 30" units. Me personally, I would rather have a Gen1 than a Gen 2.5 if I was stuck with the 30" size. That is where I disagree with his wisdom. Yes, mostly because of the inability to fit the tray. I listed my 3 main reasons above. IF you buy a 30" unit other than the Gen 1 THEN you would might consider a mailbox mod. The tray wont fit inside without taking up rack space unless you modify the sheetmetal inside. That is a HUGE deal breaker for me. The venting on the same side as the heating element issue is negligible in my experience, and easily overcome as Bear pointed out. He used a sheet metal plate, I just use different drip pan arrangement than the oval one and that works perfectly fine for me.

That Renguard therm you listed above would work for your meat probe only. You will want another therm for monitoring pit temps, or just buy one that has at least 2 probes. The Maverick is a good one, ThermPro or ThermoWorks even better and best, of course there are other cheaper ones that will get you by. There are plenty of threads on here about issues with probes, connectivity issues and whatnot with the different units.

In the end, its your money. If you can swing it for a 40" MES then go for it simply for the size. With your stated budget of $200 that's not going to happen. 40" MES units are going to start double that at least! But you can find a Gen1 30" for $150 (and sometimes lower) and have money left over for a Maverick and/or Pellet tray and pellets etc. without any further mods necessary.

 

[Bearcarver]

Note: Putting an AMNPS on the bottom rack doesn't take up any space in my MES, since I would never use the bottom rack for food---Too close to the heating element.

I use my racks in the following order of use (4 rack MES 30 or MES 40):
1 Rack needed----#2
2 Racks needed---#1 & #2
3 Racks needed---#1, #2, and #3
#4 Rack never used for food.

So like I said, I would never sacrifice a better working Smoker for one that has a special place for the AMNPS.
And the AMNPS actually works better on the right end of the bottom rack, because the chip dumper hole is right under it.

Browneyes is right that there isn't as big a problem with the MES 30 Gen #1 as there is with the MES 40 Gen #1, because the MES 30 is not as wide as the MES 40, therefore when the heat goes straight up the right side, the 30 doesn't need the big deflector push to get heat over to the left. However the Gen #2.5 is still the best. The only thing I don't like about it is the Gen #2.5 is Bluetooth, and the Gen #1 is RF. I don't have anything to use the BT with.

However one thing we haven't mentioned:
If I had a choice between a Gen #1 with a Window, and a Gen #2.5 without a Window, I would take the Gen #1 with Window. I'm "Window-Spoiled".

Also: I've seen the MES 40 Gen #2.5 sell for $279 often. That's more than $200, but it really is a Big difference in usage. IMHO

Bear

 

[browneyesvictim]

In a 30" you obviously have less space. I find I often need to use all 4 racks, especially when making jerky and sausage. Even when using fewer than 4 racks, I like to keep more space between each rack for best airflow and even heating. Even cooking a butt or a whole chicken will take up a lot of vertical space. If you put the AMNPS tray on the bottom rack, you will then get drips in it and will go out or flame up! Oh... ok, now you need to make a cover for it, making it even taller and taking up more space! No thank you. I would rather use a pellet tube smoker instead of the tray that would easily fit in the bottom.

 

[LaLaMatt]

terrific advice - exactly what I was hoping for to help clear things up in my head. On the windowed units - i'd previously read negatives about the window: that it let heat out, and once things really got smoking inside, you couldn't really see in anyway. Is that not the case?

 

[dr k]

terrific advice - exactly what I was hoping for to help clear things up in my head. On the windowed units - i'd previously read negatives about the window: that it let heat out, and once things really got smoking inside, you couldn't really see in anyway. Is that not the case?

Sometimes the top vent has smoke and water vapor exiting together making TBS look white. The window allows you to see if there's too much smoke. You should be able to easily see your food if not then there's too much smoke. It's usually with wood chips that this happens. The AMNPS eliminates that problem when lighting only one end.
-Kurt

 

[Bearcarver]

terrific advice - exactly what I was hoping for to help clear things up in my head. On the windowed units - i'd previously read negatives about the window: that it let heat out, and once things really got smoking inside, you couldn't really see in anyway. Is that not the case?

Sometimes the top vent has smoke and water vapor exiting together making TBS look white. The window allows you to see if there's too much smoke. You should be able to easily see your food if not then there's too much smoke. It's usually with wood chips that this happens. The AMNPS eliminates that problem when lighting only one end.
-Kurt

Matt,
Exactly what Dr K said above (I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't me who said that):
The first time I used my MES in Winter I thought it was smoking good, until I looked in the Window & saw there was Zero Smoke. You can't go by what you see coming out of the vent.
The outside of my glass is never hotter than the upper right side of my smoker, so heat loss is negligible.
And if you can't see the meat through the smoke, the smoke is too heavy.

And if you clean it between every smoke (2 minutes), you can always see through the glass.

Bear

 

[chopsaw]

I have the Gen 1 30 . Just some FYI , because I use the tube and most talk about the tray . Yes the tube fits inside nicely , but it can provide to much smoke if filled all the way .

 

[dr k]

Matt,
Exactly what Dr K said above (I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't me who said that):
The first time I used my MES in Winter I thought it was smoking good, until I looked in the Window & saw there was Zero Smoke. You can't go by what you see coming out of the vent.
The outside of my glass is never hotter than the upper right side of my smoker, so heat loss is negligible.
And if you can't see the meat through the smoke, the smoke is too heavy.

And if you clean it between every smoke (2 minutes), you can always see through the glass.

Bear

My daughter now has my original Mes gen 1 40 I got in 2015 because I have two. I've been using this one this summer and have some kind of anomaly with the interior side of the window hazing quickly with thumb print size clear spots that eventually get smoked over but the haze is like smoke residue when I clean it but when clean it hazes fast except the same spots. An hour after smoking it's a pita to look through one of the clear patches to see smoke density. Weird. I hoped it would have worked its way around this after several cleanings. I seasoned it like my first one. No off smells or tastes.
-Kurt

 

[Bearcarver]

I have the Gen 1 30 . Just some FYI , because I use the tube and most talk about the tray . Yes the tube fits inside nicely , but it can provide to much smoke if filled all the way .

I regard the smoke from the Tube too heavy for my MES 40 too, so I only use my trays.
I tried filling the tube halfway & shaking it horizontally---Still too heavy.
The Tube should be Perfect for bigger smokers & for High Altitude smoking.

Bear

My daughter now has my original Mes gen 1 40 I got in 2015 because I have two. I've been using this one this summer and have some kind of anomaly with the interior side of the window hazing quickly with thumb print size clear spots that eventually get smoked over but the haze is like smoke residue when I clean it but when clean it hazes fast except the same spots. An hour after smoking it's a pita to look through one of the clear patches to see smoke density. Weird. I hoped it would have worked its way around this after several cleanings. I seasoned it like my first one. No off smells or tastes.
-Kurt

My MES 40 Gen #1, when new, had an imprint that showed up during smoking too. It was a square box-like figure at an angle to the window (Like something was set on the glass at an angle before assembly, that stained it). IT went away when washed, but came back during every smoke. I can't tell you exactly when but it eventually went away sometime in the 6 years I was using it.

Bear

 

[GaryHibbert]

Bear is the acknowledged expert on MES smokers and I would never contradict his knowledge on the subject.
I'm speaking from personal experience with MY MES 30 Gen 1. Like the ads always say 'results may vary". LOL.
I could never keep my AMNPS burning in my MES. I followed ALL the suggestion posted here with no success. So I did the mailbox mod, put legs on the AMNPS for better air flow and never looked back. So my advice?? Try the AMNPS in the MES and if it works, great. If it doesnt, then try the mailbox.
As for the value of the window. If it's in the budget, fine. I don't have a window. When Miss Linda bought me my MES for Father's Day times were tough in the Hibbert House, so no window. To be honest I don't miss it. Once my food's in the smoker, i don't spritz or baste so the door never gets opened until it's time to remove the food. I just trust my therms and cook by temp. When it comes to smoke, I always just stick my nose in what's coming out the exhaust to check the smell. On a perfect day I can't even see the smoke, but if I can smell it then I'm happy.
Until you can afford to upgrade, there's no reason not to get a second inexpensive remote therm. Then use one to monitor cook chamber temp and one as a meat probe. Just be sure to check the accuracy of both therm by boil testing them. Then ALWAYS use the same probe with the same therm. If they aren't completely accurate then you know how much to compensate for each therm.
Gary