MES PID Mod

[Patrick Ball]

This is my first post but I have been hanging out here for awhile. I have a MES 30" model 20077915 which I primarily bought to make summer sausage and snack sticks after my first couple of attempts I have quickly discovered that the huge temperature swings of the MES are not very good for sausage making so I have decided to go to a PID controller I bought an Auber plug and play unit and have been reading up on rewiring mods. Today I finally got a chance to to take a look at the unit and discovered that I can make the mod by simply unpuging the connector from the power cord and pluging into the connector going to the heating element. My question is has anyone else done it this way? The other thing I'm not sure of is by doing it this way the neutral wire goes to the temp switch instead of the hot wire does this matter? If so I think I can switch the the wires around in the connector.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[dr k]

In the bottom access panel you can make 4 wire cuts and 2 splices to bypass the Mes electronics and still use the power cord to plug into the PID and have the snap disk safety switch inuse. It can be easily put back to original setup for a ten minute job. Tallbm has this thread titled something like no back removel rewire for PID.

 

[tallbm]

This is my first post but I have been hanging out here for awhile. I have a MES 30" model 20077915 which I primarily bought to make summer sausage and snack sticks after my first couple of attempts I have quickly discovered that the huge temperature swings of the MES are not very good for sausage making so I have decided to go to a PID controller I bought an Auber plug and play unit and have been reading up on rewiring mods. Today I finally got a chance to to take a look at the unit and discovered that I can make the mod by simply unpuging the connector from the power cord and pluging into the connector going to the heating element. My question is has anyone else done it this way? The other thing I'm not sure of is by doing it this way the neutral wire goes to the temp switch instead of the hot wire does this matter? If so I think I can switch the the wires around in the connector.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Patrick

Hi there and welcome!

Check out my simple MES rewire guide here https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/

What you mention is totally doable. However, it would be safer to make sure you include the the saftey rollout limit switch in the circuit/wiring loop. The purpose of the safety rollout limit switch is to cut off the power to the heating element when it senses a temp of 302F to prevent the MES from running too hot and/or burning down. The switch will auto reset after a short time so no need to manually reset it.

Going the way you propose you can run into a way too common situation where someone turns on the smoker but forgets to put the PID set temp smoker probe inside the smoker. In this case your PID will continuously feed power to the heating element until the smoker burns down because the set temp smoker probe is sitting on top never reading a higher temp then the outdoors temp, and not reading the temp inside the smoker that is ever increasing :)

If the wire job was done the way dr k and my rewire post mention, the saftey rollout limit switch will cut power to the heating element when it senses a temp of about 302F and then will auto reset after a bit. This keeps the unit from running hot too long and burning down.

So your idea isn't wrong it can just simply be improved upon for safety with basically the same amount of rewire effort.
Again check out my post and ask away if you have any questions :)

 

[Patrick Ball]

Hi there and welcome!

Check out my simple MES rewire guide here https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/

What you mention is totally doable. However, it would be safer to make sure you include the the saftey rollout limit switch in the circuit/wiring loop. The purpose of the safety rollout limit switch is to cut off the power to the heating element when it senses a temp of 302F to prevent the MES from running too hot and/or burning down. The switch will auto reset after a short time so no need to manually reset it.

Going the way you propose you can run into a way too common situation where someone turns on the smoker but forgets to put the PID set temp smoker probe inside the smoker. In this case your PID will continuously feed power to the heating element until the smoker burns down because the set temp smoker probe is sitting on top never reading a higher temp then the outdoors temp, and not reading the temp inside the smoker that is ever increasing :)

If the wire job was done the way dr k and my rewire post mention, the saftey rollout limit switch will cut power to the heating element when it senses a temp of about 302F and then will auto reset after a bit. This keeps the unit from running hot too long and burning down.

So your idea isn't wrong it can just simply be improved upon for safety with basically the same amount of rewire effort.
Again check out my post and ask away if you have any questions :)

 

[Patrick Ball]

My unit is totally different than any I have seen posted. The connector on the power cord is the same as the one that goes to the heat element and safety switch I ohmed them out with a meter. If I connect as described above the safety switch is still in the circuit but is breaking the neutral instead of the hot. Is that ok?

 

[tallbm]

My unit is totally different than any I have seen posted. The connector on the power cord is the same as the one that goes to the heat element and safety switch I ohmed them out with a meter. If I connect as described above the safety switch is still in the circuit but is breaking the neutral instead of the hot. Is that ok?

In theory it should be since the wiring makes a loop meaning that you could swap the power and neutral connections and still complete the loop.

I say in "theory" because if your unit is so different I don't know what all might be in the mix. Pictures would be very helpful.

Also if you run a multimeter the best way is to disconnect the wires from the heating element and disconnect the power chord wires from the MES board connections. Then run a continuity check:

HOT Wire
1. From the circuit board wire to the rollout limit switch connector
2. From the rollout limit switch connectors to the heating element wire

Neutral wire
1. From the circuit board wire that does NOT go to the rollout limit switch, over to the heating element wire

Now just wire up/connect the cord Neutral wire to the circuit board Neutral wire.
Wire up/connect the cord Hot wire to the circuit board Hot wire.
Done!

Let me know if this all sounds sensible and also pictures help :)

 

[tallbm]

Also if you are rewiring I would highly recommend you at least buy and use some stainless steel hi temp connectors to connect to the heating element. The MES ones are trash and are a common failure point in the wiring. They corrode and fall apart easily.

Same for the connectors on the follout limit switch.
I would (and have) switched out the MES connectors in these areas to the steel hi temp ones :)

 

[dwdunlap]

I have exactly the same model MES gen two as Patrick and of course, the same temp swings! I am going to follow this thread with great interest. I am hoping I can see see a PID totally installed for my model #20077915. I have seen some pictures and instructions but what I found were to gen one smokers. I assume components and instructions would be different for gen two.

What components are needed, how much and where do you order?

I am also concerned with where they are mounted and exposure to weather. My MES must sit outside. I have a cheap plastic cover when not using but trying to get an idea how much this conversion will need to be protected for incliment weather smokes.

I am hoping some of you have converted my model and can share how to do it.

My big question to Master Built tech support... "since you agree the control system supplied can't hold temps - why don't you offer a new model with a PID designed in?" I asked him to check with the department that would know if they are working on such a future model. He came back with "no, not really". Nice people and very willing to replace components but just ignore their design flaws.

 

[Patrick Ball]

I'll get some pics posted, if what thinking is right you won't even have to cut a single wire and you can change it back to original by swapping the connectors back.

 

[Patrick Ball]

I'll get some pics posted, if what thinking is right you won't even have to cut a single wire and you can change it back to original by swapping the connectors back.

Here's the pics

 

[Patrick Ball]

In the picture labeled cable entrance, connector 1 comes from the power cord

and goes to the electronics panel, connector 2 comes from the electronics panel

and one wire goes to the temp cutoff switch and the other goes to the heat element

the two connectors are the same allowing me to plug the incoming side of connector

1 into the outgoing side of connector 2

By doing this the power from the cord bypasses all of the controls of the MES and

goes directly to the heat element / cutoff switch.

Am I missing anything here ? I'm think MasterBuilt made this mod way too easy

intentional or not. This way I can add the PID control without voiding the warranty

and would be able to put back to original in a matter of minuets' if desired.

If this would work I could hold off doing the complete rewire until needed or at least

Until the unit is no longer under warranty.

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.


Patrick

 

[dwdunlap]

Patrick, are the instructions and pics specifically for my MES gen 2 model #20077915? I am confused. I thought there would be differences between gen 1 and gen 2.

 

[Patrick Ball]

dwdunlap this was not posted as instructions only to get feedback from the ones who know. I have no experience with any model but the one I have.

 

[tallbm]

In the picture labeled cable entrance, connector 1 comes from the power cord

and goes to the electronics panel, connector 2 comes from the electronics panel

and one wire goes to the temp cutoff switch and the other goes to the heat element

the two connectors are the same allowing me to plug the incoming side of connector

1 into the outgoing side of connector 2

By doing this the power from the cord bypasses all of the controls of the MES and

goes directly to the heat element / cutoff switch.

Am I missing anything here ? I'm think MasterBuilt made this mod way too easy

intentional or not. This way I can add the PID control without voiding the warranty

and would be able to put back to original in a matter of minuets' if desired.

If this would work I could hold off doing the complete rewire until needed or at least

Until the unit is no longer under warranty.

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.


Patrick

With what I can see of the pictures coupled with your descriptions I believe you are correct that you can just hook up the way you are thinking!

What you have is definitely not an older Gen 2 because I have rewired a Gen 2 and it had no connectors like what you have. The Gen 2 I rewired had connectors very similar to the Gen 1.

I would STILL highly consider changing out the connectors that connect directly to the heating element for hi temp steel ones. Same with the rollout limit switch. JUST KNOW that the rollout limit switch tabs are a little delicate and those hi temp connectors must fit snug on the tabs so you may want to buy a 5 pack of replacements:

The stock MES connectors on the element and then the rollout limit switch are known as a quite common failure point.

FYI, I replaced my rollout limit switch with a 350F one so I could do my quick chicken smokes at 325F and get edible chicken skin :D It is the only time I do a smoke over 275F because the smoker wasn't designed to be doing temps much over 275F for long periods of time. Just some food for thought :)

 

[tallbm]

I have exactly the same model MES gen two as Patrick and of course, the same temp swings! I am going to follow this thread with great interest. I am hoping I can see see a PID totally installed for my model #20077915. I have seen some pictures and instructions but what I found were to gen one smokers. I assume components and instructions would be different for gen two.

What components are needed, how much and where do you order?

I am also concerned with where they are mounted and exposure to weather. My MES must sit outside. I have a cheap plastic cover when not using but trying to get an idea how much this conversion will need to be protected for incliment weather smokes.

I am hoping some of you have converted my model and can share how to do it.

My big question to Master Built tech support... "since you agree the control system supplied can't hold temps - why don't you offer a new model with a PID designed in?" I asked him to check with the department that would know if they are working on such a future model. He came back with "no, not really". Nice people and very willing to replace components but just ignore their design flaws.

If you have the exact same model as phillip then what he does should work for you.

Just know that to use a PID controller with the MES you MUST rewire so that the electricity fed into the power cord bypasses the MES circuit board and goes to the element... preferably with the safety rollout limit switch in the mix.
Phillip is showing that the connections in his MES are a lot more friendly than in older ones so he may be able to just unsnap the connections from his image and then re-snap the correct ends to get the described rewire.

If that is true and yours ends up just like his than you could do the same thing.
Next step would be to get a PID controller to plug your MES into and then plug the PID Controller into the wall. Put the PID temp probe in the smoker and turn it all on! :)

Auber has a number of plug and play PIDs ready to go for a rewired MES, see here:
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_28&page=1&sort=4d

Just start with the model WS-1510ELPM and work upwards on the page to get as fancy as you like. If you start where I mention and move upwards, then all of the models should be able to support a rewired 1200 watt MES. It is just a matter of how hardcore you want to go :)

 

[muddydogs]

Your pics look like the underside of my unit. I just removed the circuit board and black box that holds the circuit board so I had room to tuck the wires back in without fighting anything. All the MES wiring unclipped from the circuit board, I cut the female spade connectors off the plug in wires, element wire and over limit switch wire then connected the appropriate wire combos with wire nuts. Used the continuity function on my multimeter to identify which wire went goes to the limit switch and which wire goes to the element.

Just today the limit switches I ordered came in so I have extras in case I need them and I ordered some high temp female spade connectors to keep on hand in case I ever need to return my unit back to stock or replace the connectors on the element or limit switch but for right now all my factory connectors look fine.

 

[tallbm]

Your pics look like the underside of my unit. I just removed the circuit board and black box that holds the circuit board so I had room to tuck the wires back in without fighting anything. All the MES wiring unclipped from the circuit board, I cut the female spade connectors off the plug in wires, element wire and over limit switch wire then connected the appropriate wire combos with wire nuts. Used the continuity function on my multimeter to identify which wire went goes to the limit switch and which wire goes to the element.

Just today the limit switches I ordered came in so I have extras in case I need them and I ordered some high temp female spade connectors to keep on hand in case I ever need to return my unit back to stock or replace the connectors on the element or limit switch but for right now all my factory connectors look fine.

^^^^^ I'd listen to this guy about what is best to do with that model. His rewire and PID seems to be working without an issue and without me seeing the unit in person I would defer to muddydogs judgement :)

 

[mosparky]

From the pics you put up, it looks like you may have a problem in that the wires you need to connect are both on the male side of the connectors. Probably to prevent just that.

 

[muddydogs]

Take a look at the close up of your electronics pic. On the right side there are four wires a black, white and 2 brown muddy color. These should be the 4 wires you need, all the other wires are clipped into the circuit board and run to the digital controller and temp probes.

Once you pull the black cover off the circuit board and turn the board over you will see 3 black plastic clips hooked into the circuit board and the 4 wires you need with female spade connectors hooked to the circuit board. Unhook the 4 wires from the circuit board and you will need to unhook the wires from from the element and limit switch to test the continuity.
Find the brown wire that goes to the element and the other brown wire that goes to the limit switch. Hook the black up to the wire that goes to the limit switch and hook the white up to the wire that goes to the element.

Like I said I unhooked the black connectors from the circuit board, took the circuit board and black box out of the unit and left all the other wires in the hole. Made a nice clean install.

 

[muddydogs]