PID/Smoker headache

[mosparky]

I have a MES 30 set up with an Auber AW-1520H-W PID (wifi model). So many things just not quite right this morning.
I just don't have time to mess with it often so starting out the unit showed a solid blue light, indicating it was connected to wifi. But I opened the app on the phone and nothing showed. So I looked up the manual and went thru the pairing sequence again. It took an hour to heat to the set 275 degrees. At this point I added the turkey. Temp dropped to 150ish while the door was open. Now the door is closed and the temp has risen to 236 and holding pretty solid. The output is cycling mostly from 47% to 100%, sometimes I see it at 0%.
Bird is cooking much slow than anticipated.
I'm starting to think the safety switch is tripping out early. Not sure if the power indicator on app or PID is current activated or switched. In other words I have no idea if it will still show 100% if the safety switch opens up.
Might be related to probe placement. I have the probe almost but not quite under the turkey which is on the first rack above the waterpan (filled with sand).
Other issues are that the auber doesn't update often enough for my liking. I tap the refresh icon and most times it says "refresh failed". I look at the P,I, and D settings and most often it all zeros, which seems to indicate somebody isn't talking to somebody. I have the settings at P=2, I=208, D=210.
I guess weather permitting I'm going to spend Saturday doing some very long dry runs. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
TIA
Rick

 

[chopsaw]

Rick I'm on my phone so this will be short . Last I set mine to 275 on the 30 it tripped the limit . That messes with the auber . I would set your temp lower . I'll be in touch when I get home .

 

[tallbm]

I have a MES 30 set up with an Auber AW-1520H-W PID (wifi model). So many things just not quite right this morning.
I just don't have time to mess with it often so starting out the unit showed a solid blue light, indicating it was connected to wifi. But I opened the app on the phone and nothing showed. So I looked up the manual and went thru the pairing sequence again. It took an hour to heat to the set 275 degrees. At this point I added the turkey. Temp dropped to 150ish while the door was open. Now the door is closed and the temp has risen to 236 and holding pretty solid. The output is cycling mostly from 47% to 100%, sometimes I see it at 0%.
Bird is cooking much slow than anticipated.
I'm starting to think the safety switch is tripping out early. Not sure if the power indicator on app or PID is current activated or switched. In other words I have no idea if it will still show 100% if the safety switch opens up.
Might be related to probe placement. I have the probe almost but not quite under the turkey which is on the first rack above the waterpan (filled with sand).
Other issues are that the auber doesn't update often enough for my liking. I tap the refresh icon and most times it says "refresh failed". I look at the P,I, and D settings and most often it all zeros, which seems to indicate somebody isn't talking to somebody. I have the settings at P=2, I=208, D=210.
I guess weather permitting I'm going to spend Saturday doing some very long dry runs. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
TIA
Rick

Sent a direct message with a more detailed msg. Just putting this hear for anyone/everyone to read so it answers your questions for them as well :D

In short, if the safety switch has engaged the Auber will still try to feed power and may go 100% since the temps are not rising.
The Auber has no idea that the safety switch would be stopping the power to the heating element.

It is likely that your safety switch or a connector at the heating element is failing at this point.

I have no insight on the refresh issue, that would all be around connectivity first and then if the phone/app is acting up 2nd :D

I hope this info helps :)

 

[mosparky]

Dangedest thing, After taking the bird out (it was very good) and leaving it run while we were across town the temps recovered to the set 275 and stayed there. That's the nice thing about having the wifi model, I could monitor it the whole time we were away.
If it had stayed at 100% power the whole time it was under temp I'd think the safety switch was at fault or probe placement was the issue. But it cycled from 47% to 100% power with a reading of 236 degrees. Now empty chamber runs 275 as set. Sounds like probe placement but that doesn't explain the cycling power at lower than set temp.
At this point I don't know what to do. I guess maybe I'll replace the safety and see what happens the next time I have it loaded.
Quick note : the bottom of the rack is just about at safety height and the 13 lb bird covered most of the shelf.
I'm open to suggestions.

 

[chopsaw]

I'm open to suggestions.

Maybe it was the load of the bird plus air flow .
My 30 doesn't like much more than 10 pounds .

The cycling of power output could have been the Auber not getting to temp in time .
Keeping itself from overheating .

If it was me , I would do another test cook or simulate a load and see what it does .

 

[normanaj]

I would agree with Rich. A 13lb bird in a 30 leaves little to no breathing room.

 

[zwiller]

Sorry was tripping on a tryptofan when I saw this and in no condition to post LOL. Been studying off and on.

Let me start with some basics and it may be things everyone knows but feel the need to cover it anyway. Also had a bunch of wifi connectivity issues as well. My thoughts (in random caffienated order LOL)

First, phone connectivity has nothing to do with PID running. PID runs program regardless of wifi connectivity etc. I did not get that at first and for some reason thought the phone was the "brain" but not so. PID will run and smoke food just fine without connecting to phone at all, I tried it .

Second, tuning a PID is a function of time vs accuracy. You want smoker to heat up in 1m AND maintain 1 degree accuracy? Not happening. IMO with Rich's settings, it does take the smoker a little longer to get to set temp (way longer than stock) BUT is pretty dang accurate once it gets there. I consider this tuning perfect for sausage, high accuracy. Not so good for hot smoked stuff like 275F butts where you want 275F in 5m. I am a disappointed we cannot save the PID tunings into each recipe as ideally each recipe would have different settings. I have asked Auber to add this in an update (amongst a list of other things).

3rd thought and the BIG one, smoking a turkey say 10-15lbs in the MES is BIG load for MES. 20lb is simply too much. Throws a lot of stuff out of whack like probe readings. chopsaw beats me to it like always. IMO this ALONE was the main issue at hand here. While I'm at it, I would offer a guess that a 13lb bird would take like 15-20hours to smoke with no PID just due to the size. 8lb butts took me 15hrs @ 275F.

For best wifi/phone connectivity use 2.4G wifi band and add a wifi extended near smoker. That has given me the most stable connectivity but admit I still run into issues. Cool part is the data is still being collected in the Auber and will eventually pull into the phone once connected.

 

[chopsaw]

IMO with Rich's settings, it does take the smoker a little longer to get to set temp (way longer than stock) BUT is pretty dang accurate once it gets there. I consider this tuning perfect for sausage, high accuracy. Not so good for hot smoked stuff

That's a true statement . Mine is dedicated for sausage and ham . Very seldom do I run over 170 .
I always heat mine at 250 for an hour or so before I use it . That way everything gets heated up , and radiates heat instead of absorbing it .
I'm gonna start it now at 200 and see how long it takes .

 

[chopsaw]

I'm gonna start it now at 200 and see how long it takes .

Ok , it was set to 165 , so I just left it there .
Auber readout was 35 degrees
Inkbird probe readout was 39 degrees .
Took 30 minutes for the Auber to read 165 .
Inkbird reads 225 .
They will eventually come closer together .
Never had that much of a difference until it tripped the limit .
, but mine moves so much air no matter how many therms I put it it , they all read different . I don't worry about it .

Rick , I'm thinking load and airflow was your issue .

 

[mosparky]

I had wondered if the PID had a duty cycle of sorts for overheat reasons. That would explain a lot.
I did notice I had no problem connecting to the unit for my daughters house, several miles away.
The PID had a solid blue light anytime I checked it which I beleive means it had no issues connecting to wifi. But my phone often wouldn't refresh data and the controller/cooker settings usually came up zeros and could not be changed.
Now I wonder if my phone is having issues connecting to the wifi at home. I will look into an extender anyways.
I'm pretty sure, when the wife setup the wifi at home, I had her turn on the 2.4G option but will double check with her later. Anyone know if there is a similar setting on an android phone. The last time I used the PID I think it was before my latest phone up-grade.

 

[tallbm]

Just to chime in for public sharing.

I too feel it may be a black magic combo of a giant load in the smoker, probe placement, and then air flow changes due to the load.

I say this because if I ever have a wonky temp or cook issue, it's ONLY with big turkeys. I do like 24-28 pound turkeys and they are huge in my mes40.

I've had my PID probe tell me it never got to 325F while my back up probe on the hot side read higher than the PID prob but not as hot as usualy BUT my probe in the cold spot was running way higher and giving me readings like I was close to my set temp.

Also my PID probe is clipped with an aligator clip from under but basically touching the bar of the rack and under the pan that sits under the bird.
So the pan is directly touching the clip and the rack and the pan gets a TON of liquid in it. So I'm thinking that the colder liquid coming out of the refrigerated bird gives a false reading to the temp probe since the rack is being cooled by cooler liquid constantly coming out of the bird and into that pan. And I'm talking 3/4 or more of this pan gets filled up so it's a considerable volume of liquid.

No matter what though, the turkey comes out fantastic and I chalk it up to just a massive load in the smoker, airflow changes, and all of that giving wonky instrument readings BUT the results show the reality.

I hope this helps some others out there and they can compare there experiences to yours and to what I mention :D

 

[dr k]

Sent a direct message with a more detailed msg. Just putting this hear for anyone/everyone to read so it answers your questions for them as well :D

In short, if the safety switch has engaged the Auber will still try to feed power and may go 100% since the temps are not rising.
The Auber has no idea that the safety switch would be stopping the power to the heating element.

It is likely that your safety switch or a connector at the heating element is failing at this point.

I have no insight on the refresh issue, that would all be around connectivity first and then if the phone/app is acting up 2nd :D

I hope this info helps :)

Right if the Auber sensor calls for heat and the Mes is cooling from a bad snap disk thermal sensor the auber sensor/PID knows nothing about that and should show a constant light for 100% as the Mes is cooling.

 

[mosparky]

OK, I've messed this thread up a bit. I PM'd tallbm, chopsaw and zwiller to call their attention to the thread. They replied mostly in both places for public help and I have been a bit neglagent in that respect. I meant to but surprise I goofed...again.
The following two posts will be my missing replies.
Shouldn't screw up the continuity of the thread too much but there may be something there to help someone later on.

 

[mosparky]

I did not realize open loop had to be factory repaired. I thought it would just need to turn off and back on.
Had to suspend that message for dinner, then family. Back at home now on my laptop.
Dangedest thing, After taking the bird out (it was very good) and leaving it run while we were across town the temps recovered to the set 275 and stayed there. That's the nice thing about having the wifi model, I could monitor it the whole time we were away.
If it had stayed at 100% power the whole time it was under temp I'd think the safety switch was at fault or probe placement was the issue. But it cycled from 47% to 100% power with a reading of 236 degrees. Now empty chamber runs 275 as set. Sounds like probe placement but that doesn't explain the cycling power at lower than set temp.
At this point I don't know what to do. I guess maybe I'll replace the safety and see what happens the next time I have it loaded.
Quick note : the bottom of the rack is just about at safety height and the 13 lb bird covered most of the shelf.
I'm open to suggestions.

 

[chopsaw]

I just replied to the PM . Lol .