Hot Dog concerns

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Meatfermentorium

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Original poster
Mar 26, 2020
3
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I recently made hot dogs for the first time. Everything appeared to be great, great grind, smell, everything but the finished product is kind of tough.
I used 80% beef cross rib and 20% fat. Ground three times, twice through a 4.5mm plate to finish.
Recipe was as follow:
7.33 kg of meat and fat
440g of seasoning
18g cure #1
110g sure gel binder
37g of sodium erythobate
2.5c of ice water
26mm cellulose casing.

I followed a recipe from Walton’s Meat

Cooked at 167 for 20 minutes and then ice bath.

Franks were initially and still are a great flavor but they are tough, well at least they is quite a bit of chew to them after they were simmered up for dinner. They also appear a little on the dry side.

Any constructive criticism would be great!

Thanks
 
Just a guess, but I am not seeing a need for the Binder in such a fine ground meat. I am not familiar with Sure Gel but think that may be what is toughening the Dogs...JJ
 
Just my opinions ,
I would skip the multiple grinds .
I would use the binder .
Don't take much to bring them to service .
Pot of boiling water , take off the heat . Add sausage and lid up to warm .
Or quick pass on the grill .
 
Just my opinions ,
I would skip the multiple grinds .
I would use the binder .
Don't take much to bring them to service .
Pot of boiling water , take off the heat . Add sausage and lid up to warm .
Or quick pass on the grill .

Just curious...Why less grinds? The texture of Dogs come from a Super Fine Grind, if not pureeing the meat it to a paste. Would not less grinds and binder give a Hot Dog flavored Brat? Granted, it would be Tender, fixing the toughness issue...JJ
 
I just think it over works the meat paste . All the times I have done multiple grinds , the force to get the paste thru the plate is increased with every pass . Sodium erythorbate helps to emulsify , so 1 fine grind and a good mix with ice chips should give the texture needed.
Like this ,
20181129_151430.jpg
 
Thanks! Been using the Food Processor to make the emulsified paste. Kind of a PITA...JJ
 
From reading on the meat science websites of the Universities over the years, Seems hot dogs utilize a high percentage of tendons and/or skin in the buffalo chopper to increase the water holding capacity of the finely emulsified paste. This may be the reason Walton's recommends the sure gel in their recipe....
 
I just think it over works the meat paste . All the times I have done multiple grinds , the force to get the paste thru the plate is increased with every pass . Sodium erythorbate helps to emulsify , so 1 fine grind and a good mix with ice chips should give the texture needed.
Like this ,
View attachment 438053
Chop,
Do you have a ratio recipe that you follow? I might be over thinking this too, I know all beef tend to be tougher than store bought cheapo dogs. Thanks for the input nonetheless.
 
I do all pork , and use the " wiener" seasoning from sausage maker . 25 mm cellulose casings . First time I cooked start to finish in the SV . Came out pretty good .
2nd time I smoked first then finished SV . Came out good again , but when reheated for service , they can become tough or chewy .
I'm grinding pork butt , and don't worry about trying to get an exact " hotdog " texture .
One grind and mix by hand and get it as close as I can to a hotdog .
 
I do all pork , and use the " wiener" seasoning from sausage maker . 25 mm cellulose casings . First time I cooked start to finish in the SV . Came out pretty good .
2nd time I smoked first then finished SV . Came out good again , but when reheated for service , they can become tough or chewy .
I'm grinding pork butt , and don't worry about trying to get an exact " hotdog " texture .
One grind and mix by hand and get it as close as I can to a hotdog .
Any cure or other additional ingredients besides the seasoning, how long are you cooking and at what temp?
 
Any cure or other additional ingredients besides the seasoning, how long are you cooking and at what temp?
Sorry about that . Yes , I use the seasoning , and the correct amount of cure # 1 for the weight of the meat . I use non fat dry milk as a binder , and add some water .
I measure out the recommended amount of the binder and liquid , but I add it slowly . When it comes together I stop . Sometimes it will need all the liquid and nfdm , sometimes half , or even less .
That's just how I do it .

Most times I smoke start to finish and pull from smoker at an internal temp of 152 , the ice bath . Smoker temp , I dry for a couple hours at 120 . Then bump 10 degrees per hour . Max smoker temp 165 .

If I do SV , I'll smoke until I get the color I like , then into the water . SV set at 140 for 2 hours for a 25 mm casing .
 
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what is sodium erythobate?

Used in sausage to accelerate the break down of cure one . Helps set the color of the meat and also aids in emulsifying and acts as an anti oxidant in summer sausage with high temp cheese .
I get it from sausage maker .
 
Used in sausage to accelerate the break down of cure one . Helps set the color of the meat and also aids in emulsifying and acts as an anti oxidant in summer sausage with high temp cheese .
I get it from sausage maker .
Thank you!
 
Guys I did hotdogs yesterday, but mine SEPARATED while smoking. They lost a lot of liquid and fat inside the casing.
I didnt use sodium erythobate . Mine was all beef (about 70/30). Everything was very cold while processing.
I like them emulsionated, so I use the food processor

This is the recipe I follow:
317.8​
GrsChuck (70%)
136​
GrsFAT (30%)
91.0​
GrsIce
8.0​
GrsSmoked Paprika
7.0​
GrsNF Powdered Milk
7.0​
GrsSalt
5.0​
GrsMace
6.0​
GrsGround Mustard
4.0​
GrsSugar
4.0​
GrsGarlic Powder
4.0​
GrsCoriander Seeds
2.0​
GrsCayena (opcional)
4.0​
GrsWhite Pepper
1.4​
GrsPink Salt
.

So, What do you think I did wrong? Could they have too much fat or water?
 
I'm no expert by any means and have never emulsified anything. The grams throw me off, but it does seem like a lot of water and not much NFDM.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will check in....
 
"Guys I did hotdogs yesterday, but mine SEPARATED while smoking. "

What was your smoke schedule and final smoker temp.? Or did you use a water bath?
 
Last edited:
"Guys I did hotdogs yesterday, but mine SEPARATED while smoking. "

What was your smoke schedule and final smoker temp.? Or did you use a water bath?

200° for 2 hours. They were separated by the end of the smoking time.

Besides the temp of the smoker I think the farce (emultion) was broken.
 
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