HELP! Having pit temp problems!!

[worm304]

So I just got a digiq for my wsm. Hooked it up last night for an overnight smoke. It was holding rock soilid at 225 around midnight
before I fell asleep. I wake up at 7 am. and my smoker is sitting at 289. I check the water pan and it wasn't close to empty. I put more water in for good measure. I decided to throw in my thermo pro so see if the digi q is off. They are reading way different temps. I don't get why that is and why this thing is running so hot. I closed the top vent down a little to try and help bring it down some. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! This better not ruin my first packer!

 

[SmokinAl]

Sometimes the Guru's will overshoot the temp, but not to worry, it will come back down.
Oh, and leave the top vent open all the way, this will let the heat out.
Any temp between 225 & 300 will get you a good packer.
As a matter of fact I run my smoker around 270-280 for a packer.
Good luck!
Al

 

[worm304]

Thanks Al! I just don't get how the pit is way over temp. Im not sure how long it was like that. I also don't understand why my therms are reading way different temps. I put 2 meat probes in in the same general region(one for Digi one for therm pro) and both of those are reading within 2 degrees of each other. The pit probes are right next to each other as well but yet those are now reading 12 degrees apart.

 

[worm304]

Also. Is it common for a packer to only be sitting at 158 after 9 hours at 225?

 

[blathnac]

I think that its normal for it to stall out. How big is it? I wouldn't worry too much about the difference in temps. The important thing is that you have an idea of what's happening. I found that the more I fussed and fiddled around with the whole process the worse cook I had. Finally got a good cook when I let the smoker run where it wanted to within reason and quit trying to force it into a lower temp. When I quit keeping myself busy and just sat back to enjoy the process I finally achieved success. This Forum has some geniuses on here. I absorbed a ton of info and just let it happen. Hope it turns out.

 

[worm304]

She was pretty big. 17 lbs. Before I trimmed it. I had to slice about an inch off the flat end so it would fit. Prime for 2.99/lb. At Costco. Not sure if that is the normal price but I know it's really good. I was expecting to be past the stall after 9 hours but I'm probably over thinking. Plus at 225 it makes sense. I think my temp jumped because there wasn't enough water in the pan. I was half asleep so it looked like it was full enough but maybe it wasn't. I decided to foil and finish in the oven because the fuel was running low and the digi q was having trouble getting the pit to 260. Since it's in foil, no biggie. In a way it makes sense to me that early in the cook when it's full of fuel the digi will probably have an easier time maintaining. Thanks!

 

[worm304]

Edit: let me try to get a picture to upload

 

[Smoke23]

Check both probes in boiling water and ice water before getting too concerned. I’ve had pretty big differences at the grate as well with only a few inches difference between probes. Closer to the outside of the grate is going to be hotter. Closer to that big hunk of meat will be cooler. I “try” to keep the pit probe in the same location all the time.

 

[noboundaries]

Temp: no problem. I've done packers at 300+ and they still came out delicious.

158 for 9 hours. Probably took close to 4 to get to that temp. That's 13 hours total. For a 17 lb'er, not unusual for 225F, especially since you don't know when the temp spiked. It might have been just an hour or two before you looked. Personally, I don't even temp my packers until they've been in the smoker for at least 12 hours, and they are usually still in the stall or just coming out of it. 15 lbs is about the biggest packer I can buy locally.

Spike in temp with DigiQ. When I was using Kingsford Original (aka KBB) the temp would often spike because the fan had to work overtime to keep the temps up where I wanted them. Then the coals would get over-stoked, spiking the temp.

Now, here is where Al and I are going to respectfully disagree, the top vent. I don't have time right now to explain the physics, but consider this. Why does the fire go out quickly when you have your bottom vents full open and the top vent closed, compared to having your bottom vents closed and your top vent full open? With bottom vents closed and top open, it can run for hours and hours. With the bottoms open and the top closed, your fire will be out in about an hour. Trust me, it happens just like that. Yes, this far into a smoke you can use the top vent to bring down temps. I use the top vent all the time, especially on long, low temp smokes for jerky and bacon (165F). Thin blue smoke, bottoms closed, top closed down to about half or less. No stale smoke, even temps, using good, dense charcoal (Weber, Royal Oak Ridge, etc, not KBB).

Post pics of the briskie when done!

 

[worm304]

Here she is before foil. Kinda of annoyed that I had my thermo pro in, pulled it out when it was at 188 to check temps in other places. It was 205ish in most. Wrapped and resting in cooler. Hope it slices ok and doesn't fall apart.

 

[worm304]

Temp: no problem. I've done packers at 300+ and they still came out delicious.

158 for 9 hours. Probably took close to 4 to get to that temp. That's 13 hours total. For a 17 lb'er, not unusual for 225F, especially since you don't know when the temp spiked. It might have been just an hour or two before you looked. Personally, I don't even temp my packers until they've been in the smoker for at least 12 hours, and they are usually still in the stall or just coming out of it. 15 lbs is about the biggest packer I can buy locally.

Spike in temp with DigiQ. When I was using Kingsford Original (aka KBB) the temp would often spike because the fan had to work overtime to keep the temps up where I wanted them. Then the coals would get over-stoked, spiking the temp.

Now, here is where Al and I are going to respectfully disagree, the top vent. I don't have time right now to explain the physics, but consider this. Why does the fire go out quickly when you have your bottom vents full open and the top vent closed, compared to having your bottom vents closed and your top vent full open? With bottom vents closed and top open, it can run for hours and hours. With the bottoms open and the top closed, your fire will be out in about an hour. Trust me, it happens just like that. Yes, this far into a smoke you can use the top vent to bring down temps. I use the top vent all the time, especially on long, low temp smokes for jerky and bacon (165F). Thin blue smoke, bottoms closed, top closed down to about half or less. No stale smoke, even temps, using good, dense charcoal (Weber, Royal Oak Ridge, etc, not KBB).

Post pics of the briskie when done!

So if you had to pick the best charcoal what would you go with? I have only used KBB as that is what I read is a solid option but I am more than happy to switch it up. I posted he final product if you'd like to check it out. It came out great! Thanks!

https://smokingmeatforums.com/threads/first-packer-on-my-wsm-with-digi-q.270896/

 

[daveomak]

Also. Is it common for a packer to only be sitting at 158 after 9 hours at 225?

Yes... The meat has water in it.. as it warms up, the water starts to evaporate.. the evaporation, cools the meat.. Because of the moisture in the meat, it's almost impossible to get the IT of the meat within 25 deg. F of the smoker temp.. at least until all the moisture has been evaporated, and it's dry and inedible... or jerky...

 

[troutman]

daveomak is right again, that's why we wrap to force through the stall. Nine hours for a stall is WAY beyond my patience limits, especially if your shooting for a certain time to feed hungry folks.

Also, not that I'm a ThermoPro basher, but I sent mine back to Amazon for a refund. I had nothing but problems with that cheap piece of Chinese junk. Ok so I am a TP basher .... junk !!!

 

[noboundaries]

So if you had to pick the best charcoal what would you go with? I have only used KBB as that is what I read is a solid option but I am more than happy to switch it up. I posted he final product if you'd like to check it out. It came out great! Thanks!

https://smokingmeatforums.com/threads/first-packer-on-my-wsm-with-digi-q.270896/

Just realized I missed a question.

Value:
1. KBB: there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Until recently, I used it for decades through several formulation changes. Currently, it is a good value when sold during the Summer holidays, about 27 cents a pound. The current formulations have been reducing the weight of the briquettes. Tests have shown it does not last as long as more dense briquettes. During the non-summer season, best price available is approximately 54 cents a lb.

2. Any "Ridge" briquette made by Royal Oak: Royal Oak supplies briquettes to name brands for many grocery chains and Home Depot (Embers). It is 25% more dense than the current formula of KBB. It burns more evenly and lasts 30-40% longer than the KBB pound for pound. It creates just as much ash as KBB. Besides the burn time and steady temp characteristics, it is a better year-round value than KBB. During the summer sales, it can be found for 26 cents a lb. Off-season, it can be found for about 33-39 cents a pound. Academy sells it, also Kroger, Winco, Home Depot, and Lowes. I'm sure there are others but those have been the only ones I know of that have been reported here.

Quality:
This is where the price of briquettes or lump charcoals start climbing into the 60 cents to $1.25 (or higher) per pound range. Lump is pure wood, but not all are created equal. 100% pure hardwood lump is what you want for quality, lump that is made direct from trees, not furniture manufacturing scraps. I buy only mesquite lump because no one is making furniture out of mesquite. I can find it for just over 50 cents a pound.

100% hardwood charcoal briquettes, like Webers and Trader Joes, are great charcoals, but pricey. Lowes has Weber on sale as I type for 60 cents a lb ($11.99 for a 20 lb bag). Same bag at Home Depot is $20, or $1 per pound.

Some briquettes state they are 100% hardwood charcoal, but pack each briquette to a lighter weight. Also, the claims made on the package are often marketing smoke and mirrors. I have a background in advertising. Advertisers know when you read a claim, you are mentally framing the claim from and for your own needs and interests, not necessarily from the actual tests that they use to support the claim. Claims like "Lasts longer," "Nothing last longer," "Burns Longer" never claim what they are comparing it to or the specifics of the test. The specifics are left off the bag on purpose.

Trying different charcoals is a good learning experience. I've tried several. I go through about 400-500 lbs of charcoal a year, so I'd much rather spend 26-33 cents a pound for charcoal that meets my needs than 60 cents a pound or higher that delivers something similar.

So, decide what is important to you for taste/value, and use that in your smoker, stocking up when it is on sale.

 

[troutman]

Also, the claims made on the package are often marketing smoke and mirrors. I have a background in advertising. Advertisers know when you read a claim, you are mentally framing the claim from and for your own needs and interests, not necessarily from the actual tests that they use to support the claim. Claims like "Lasts longer," "Nothing last longer," "Burns Longer" never claim what they are comparing it to or the specifics of the test. The specifics are left off the bag on purpose.

Trying different charcoals is a good learning experience.

So in other words advertisers lie about their product, imagine that. Interestingly enough I have made the comparison of charcoals to learn what works best for me. Frame this by adding that I either cook with charcoal in a Weber kettle or a WSM. When I began years ago I used blue bag Kingsford exclusively. It was readily available and cheap. Still pretty much is as you mention. Never had any bench mark to compare it to so it was fine for me. When I bought my first WSM, Weber stated that they designed the cooker around KBB, so I continued to use it. Gave me good results, temperature control, lasted easily for 10-12 hours, etc.

Now all this talk about how superior Royal Oak Ridge is...blah, blah, blah. Well I start to check around Houston area where I live and very few places actually sold it. So I'm strolling through one of the large sporting goods stores here, Academy, and low and behold they have a pallet of KBB sitting right next to one with ROR. The ROR is on sale for like half the price for the same size bag as the KBB. I'm thinking I struck gold. I literally loaded 4 bags into my shopping cart and race out of the place before the manager realizes he screwed something up. I go home and plan a cook, I think it was chicken, but now I'm all excited because I'm going to get more dense charcoal, better and longer lasting burn, etc.

Well bottom line, I had nothing but temperature spikes and problems holding temperature in my 18" WSM. At the end of the cook I look in the burn pan and half the charcoal never caught fire. Next week I try it on my 22" WSM thinking it was an anomaly, same story. Weather was fine (like 75-80*), no appreciable wind, both occasions. Since then I began re-using KBB with no problems what-so-ever. I'm slowly using the ROR up by mixing with the KBB just to get rid of it. I will never buy ROR again. Perhaps the bags I bought had gotten wet or were real old or whatnot. I have no idea.

Problem is perceptions and reality are two different animals. My experience was totally different from what I have read here. It's almost like a mantra, everyone just repeats what the other guy says is true so it must be true.

BEST advice, as was stated, try different charcoals out for yourself and don't take anyone's word for it. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[noboundaries]

Amen, brother. I hear you.

I had to change my initial set-up when switching from KBB to RO Ridge. When I wanted 225F using KBB, I used about a quarter of the large chimney of hot KBB (approximately 30 briquettes) on top of my WSMs cold pile of KBB and wood chunks. When I did that same thing with RO Ridge the temp just shot up to 300F+. Now, when I'm aiming for 225F using RO Ridge, I use 6-8 hot briquettes on top of the cold pile. That's it. I had to buy the smaller chimney once I started using RO Ridge because it required so many fewer briquettes compared to KBB.

For poultry, when my desired chamber temp is 300-350F, I'd use a full large chimney of KBB (approx. 100 hot briquettes) on top of the cold pile. This past Thanksgiving I loaded up the WSM with cold RO Ridge and dumped a small chimney of hot RO Ridge briquettes, approximately 30-35 briquettes. Temp with an 18 lb turkey stabilized at 335F.

As far as getting unburned briquettes, I get a few, but not many. Same thing happened with KBB. Happens more on the shorter hot smokes than the longer low n' slow. I just use tongs and toss the unburned ones into the center of the pile when I knock off the ash after 12-14 hours or so.

What is interesting though is the burn pattern difference between KBB and RO Ridge. With the Ridge I dump the hot bricks in the center of my cold pile, it burns down to the grate, then out to the edges then up to the top. KBB didn't do that. It kind of burned outward in an even pattern from the center. I noticed that difference as soon as I started using the Ridge.

My Guru would work just about non-stop with the KBB. It is just about obsolete with the Ridge. I'll hook it up in case I need it, but often never plug it in.

At 26-27 cents a pound on sale for KBB or RO Ridge, it all works, but they cannot be treated the same.

 

[worm304]

Wow, lots to absorb there. Thanks!! I think I will try webers if I can find it on sale. I was just at lowes buying a new ceiling fan and of course went over to the grill section as I normally do. I didn't see any weber but ROR, stumps, and KBB. I do have a bag of KBB left so I will ride with that for my Christmas smokes. I may leave the water pan empty on my next go round with a couple of baby back racks on Christmas eve. I am assuming doing that will save on charcoal because it won't have to work as hard. Is that something ya'll do or do you stick with water? With only a 5 ish hour smoke I shouldn't have to worry about the water pan depleting. I figured after 9ish hours it probably needed replenished which is probably why the temp spiked for the brisket. Thanks!

 

[tallbm]

Here she is before foil. Kinda of annoyed that I had my thermo pro in, pulled it out when it was at 188 to check temps in other places. It was 205ish in most. Wrapped and resting in cooler. Hope it slices ok and doesn't fall apart.

Oh my friend you may have wandered into the mystery that is the Brisket, lol!!!

I run 3 probes in my brisket packers.

1st in the middle of the flat going long ways, inserted into flat end (not point end) of the brisket

2nd in the middle of the flat kind of under the seam where the point begins to overlap the flat. I insert this probe perpendicular (cross ways) to the 1st probe I place into the brisket

3rd probe I insert more on the point side from the top of the brisket to down into where I think the point and the flat may still be meeting while going into the flat portion under the point. The point seems to consistently run at a much higher IT so I stopped putting a probe in the point since the flat is the problem child.

I begin probing for tenderness when the lowest reading is around 200F.
I find that my briskets are usually tender when the LOWEST reading is around 203-205F.

The highest probe may be reading 207F+ but I have found that tenderness is at a max when the lowest probe reading is what I use to pull the brisket.

It is almost mind boggling to watch the probes race in temperature with one another. You can never guess which one will end up the highest or the lowest.

I've seen the "straggler" overtake the other 2 probes and I've seen each probe take the lead and lose the lead for hottest temp multiple times in a smoke.

I haven't seen this kind of behavior with another cut of meat at all. It is very interesting and I think it attests to why the Tenderness probing tests are REQUIRED for a brisket.

If you have 3 or more probes feel free to try this and prepare to be entertained. Hell you and some buddies can pick a probe and make a bet like it's a horse race and the loser pays for the beer at the next BBQ/smoke :D

 

[worm304]

Nice. I was definitely worried it would fall apart at 205 but man it was perfect. I do have 3 probes and maybe I'll go that route for sure. I am not sure why I haven't given them the boiling water test yet but I plan on doing that tonight.

 

[tallbm]

Nice. I was definitely worried it would fall apart at 205 but man it was perfect. I do have 3 probes and maybe I'll go that route for sure. I am not sure why I haven't given them the boiling water test yet but I plan on doing that tonight.

Yeah do the boil test so you know how far off you are with each probe and can adjust your cooking accordingly.

Also the point will always be more jiggly and want to come apart more easily than the flat. This is why the point sliced thicker than the flat so that the slices hold together well.
I also found that I like slicing the Point the way that Aaron Franklin does. He not only does it thicker than the flat (like just mentioned) but he also slices it perpendicular to the direction of the flat slices.
So flat slices horizontal, and point slices vertical.

Best of luck! :)