HAM from fresh picnics.. update 10/21 ... MONEY ..

[daveomak]

Daveomak I’m going to give your injection method a go. I have some 450 super phosphate can I use that in place or your Amesphos. Also whatever weight meat I get just use your 10% method, ingredients, as your recipe shows for the 500 cc per about 10 pounds? Hope this makes since to you.

Single Super Phosphate Fertilizer
Rs 450/Bag 50 Kg
Thanks Daveomak but a little confused still. I found this information here on the 450 phosphate under title “Kosmos Phosphates” You talk about the usage of the 450 phosphate? I got mine sometime ago from Butcher and Packer can’t remember why though. Says on package 6 ounces per gallon of brine and inject accordingly. Marinade: 2 ounces per 25 pound of meat.
------------------
Well, sounds good to me... From you post, I had no idea your "Super Phosphate" came from Butcher Packer... I googled "Super Phosphate 450" and what I got in return is what's in red above...

 

[daveomak]

2 oz. per 25#'s meat =
25#'s x 16 oz/# = 400 oz.
2 / 400 = 0.005 or 0.5%....
I recommend 0.4% added to meat...

 

[Slow42]

Thanks Daveomak I just assumed you knew what it was as you discussed it, with others, in the post I mention, a short time ago. I was just trying to determine if it was the same as the phosphates you use Just a different brand. Thanks for the help.

 

[ROBERTO RUIZ]

Hi, I'm From Mexico, Could I to change AMESphos for MSG??? Thanks

 

[daveomak]

Hi, I'm From Mexico, Could I to change AMESphos for MSG??? Thanks

Nope... Totally different...

Check E-Bay..... Sodium Tripoly Phosphate Food grade
check meat suppliers for for phosphates....

Details about Sodium Tripolyphosphate STPP ~Food Grade~ Free Shipping Best Price

There are moisture enhancing produicts that include seasonings... Check that they have phosphates...

 

[daveomak]

You can order Ames phos from The Ingredients Store....

Amesphos Specialty phosphate blend

AmesPhos is a specialty phosphate blend for meats, seafood and poultry. It improves texture, maintains that "fresh-made taste", and reduces bacteria. 16 oz package.

store.theingredientstore.com

 

[ROBERTO RUIZ]

Nope... Totally different...

Check E-Bay..... Sodium Tripoly Phosphate Food grade
check meat suppliers for for phosphates....

Details about Sodium Tripolyphosphate STPP ~Food Grade~ Free Shipping Best Price

There are moisture enhancing produicts that include seasonings... Check that they have phosphates...

View attachment 429534



View attachment 429535

Thank you

 

[slotown]

Dave,

I have been making this for new years for the past three years. My wife looks forward to this every year as her favorite cook. I usually read this entire thread to remember how to do this once a year cook. This year I decided to consolidate all the pieces into a single post.

I think I have it about right, but feel free to correct me. Cooking temperatures and duration may be a bit subjective and vary by the smoker. Hope you enjoy this, and if I have totally blown it let me know.

Fresh Pork Picnic

Ingredients

Pork Picnic 10#'s.... ~4500 grams....

Weights are per 500 grams injection liquid (10% injection) no salt vegetable stock

Amesphos............ 18 grams ~0.4% (0.3-0.5% recommended)

Sugar, white ....... 45 grams ~1%

Salt, pickling ...... 90 grams ~2%

Cure #1.............. . 11 grams ~153 Ppm nitrite ( edit .. OR 2 tsp for 10#'s)

NOTE: If your picnic weighs in at 20 pounds, double all of the above. If it's an off number i.e. 24 pounds then you can create a ratio that will allow you to multiply the above weights in grams. See below:

Given a 10# pork picnic weighs ~4500 grams, then:

24/10=2.4 ratio

Now multiply all the ingredients by 2.4 to get the correct measurements in grams for each ingredient. Easy.

Optional: Whole cloves (makes my wife happy to see these stuck in the ham.



Directions

1. Figure out the ratios for cure/meat weight.

2. Mix all the cure ingredients in a large bowl. I warm up my chicken broth so all the rest dissolves more easily.

3. Score the skin on the picnic using a sharp box knife with a new blade. The squares should be about 2-3 inches across. You need to do this so when you inject the ham you don't have to punch through the tough skin.

4. Inject the ham in a method that starts with injecting deep down to the bone all around the bone. It's important that the area around the bone cures or it can "sour" the entire ham. After this is done then systematically inject the rest of the ham until all of the cure is used. A lot of the cure will start to leak out don't worry. This usually ends up at about every inch or so stick the needle in. When finished either wrap the meat really well or stick it in a huge BPA safe bag. This year I'm using the Ziploc Storage Bags, Double Zipper Seal & Expandable Bottom, Jumbo from Amazon.

5. Cure time. Five days is the bare minimum, but I recommend between 10 and fifteen days. Time is your friend.

6. When the cure is finished place the meat in a 28" cotton ham bag (amazon). Then figure out how to hang the ham in your smoker.

7. Preheat smoker to 275 degrees. Place the ham in the smoker and immediately turn temp down to about 180 degrees for the next 8 hours. Then raise the temp to about 200 until internal temp reads about 165 degrees. Last few hours may need to turn temp back up to 225-250 degrees.

 

[petewoody]

Dave,

I have been making this for new years for the past three years. My wife looks forward to this every year as her favorite cook. I usually read this entire thread to remember how to do this once a year cook. This year I decided to consolidate all the pieces into a single post.

I think I have it about right, but feel free to correct me. Cooking temperatures and duration may be a bit subjective and vary by the smoker. Hope you enjoy this, and if I have totally blown it let me know.

Fresh Pork Picnic

Ingredients

Pork Picnic 10#'s.... ~4500 grams....

Weights are per 500 grams injection liquid (10% injection) no salt vegetable stock

Amesphos............ 18 grams ~0.4% (0.3-0.5% recommended)

Sugar, white ....... 45 grams ~1%

Salt, pickling ...... 90 grams ~2%

Cure #1.............. . 11 grams ~153 Ppm nitrite ( edit .. OR 2 tsp for 10#'s)

NOTE: If your picnic weighs in at 20 pounds, double all of the above. If it's an off number i.e. 24 pounds then you can create a ratio that will allow you to multiply the above weights in grams. See below:

Given a 10# pork picnic weighs ~4500 grams, then:

24/10=2.4 ratio

Now multiply all the ingredients by 2.4 to get the correct measurements in grams for each ingredient. Easy.

Optional: Whole cloves (makes my wife happy to see these stuck in the ham.



Directions

1. Figure out the ratios for cure/meat weight.

2. Mix all the cure ingredients in a large bowl. I warm up my chicken broth so all the rest dissolves more easily.

3. Score the skin on the picnic using a sharp box knife with a new blade. The squares should be about 2-3 inches across. You need to do this so when you inject the ham you don't have to punch through the tough skin.

4. Inject the ham in a method that starts with injecting deep down to the bone all around the bone. It's important that the area around the bone cures or it can "sour" the entire ham. After this is done then systematically inject the rest of the ham until all of the cure is used. A lot of the cure will start to leak out don't worry. This usually ends up at about every inch or so stick the needle in. When finished either wrap the meat really well or stick it in a huge BPA safe bag. This year I'm using the Ziploc Storage Bags, Double Zipper Seal & Expandable Bottom, Jumbo from Amazon.

5. Cure time. Five days is the bare minimum, but I recommend between 10 and fifteen days. Time is your friend.

6. When the cure is finished place the meat in a 28" cotton ham bag (amazon). Then figure out how to hang the ham in your smoker.

7. Preheat smoker to 275 degrees. Place the ham in the smoker and immediately turn temp down to about 180 degrees for the next 8 hours. Then raise the temp to about 200 until internal temp reads about 165 degrees. Last few hours may need to turn temp back up to 225-250 degrees.

 

[petewoody]

slowtown, that mirrors my process except I deduct 15% from the weight to account for the bone.

 

[daveomak]

Dissolve in this order.... Before adding the cure#1, cool the Veggie stock...

Weights are per 500 cc /grams injection liquid (10% injection) no salt vegetable stock
1... Amesphos............ 18 grams ~0.4% (0.3-0.5% recommended)
2... Sugar, white ....... 45 grams ~1%
3... Salt, pickling ...... 90 grams ~2%
COOL...
4... Cure #1.............. . 11 grams ~153 Ppm nitrite ( edit .. OR 2 tsp for 10#'s)

Folks have mentioned trying other veggie stock and they SUCK compared to the
one I used...

Form a pellicle as the smoker cools from 275 to100.... initial smoke.. 100-110F... Then up the temp to 160 ish.... when the meat IT gets to about125ish close the exhaust 90% to stop evaporative cooling... wait for the meat IT to get up to ~135-140 amd turn down the smoker temp if you wish.... I cook pork now to ~140.. I use the pasteurization table and add about 1 hour to the finish time for safety....


Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min
144 (62.2) 5 min
145 (62.8) 4 min
Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

 

[slotown]

2021 Cook - 24lb ham
- 4:00 PM smoker set to 150 with ham in
- 4:00 AM set smoker to 175, refresh pellets
- 8:00 AM set smoker to 195
- at 1:00 PM internal meat temp 152 degrees, bumped smoker to 200
- 3:00 PM set smoker to 225 to get meat to 165
- 4:30PM internal temp Is 162. Turned smoker off to rest.

 

[daveomak]

View attachment 478159
2021 Cook - 24lb ham
- 4:00 PM smoker set to 150 with ham in
- 4:00 AM set smoker to 175, refresh pellets
- 8:00 AM set smoker to 195
- at 1:00 PM internal meat temp 152 degrees, bumped smoker to 200
- 3:00 PM set smoker to 225 to get meat to 165
- 4:30PM internal temp Is 162. Turned smoker off to rest.

Well, how did you like the ham ????

.....

 

[slotown]

Well, how did you like the ham ????

This is the only way I eat ham. I only do it once a year. I absolutely detest spiral cut and store-bought hams. I vacuum pack the remainder and consume it throughout the year. I usually run out in early December and I start all over.

 

[daveomak]

Sounds as if it's your Go-To-Ham recipe.....

 

[ramatack]

Dissolve in this order.... Before adding the cure#1, cool the Veggie stock...

Weights are per 500 cc /grams injection liquid (10% injection) no salt vegetable stock
1... Amesphos............ 18 grams ~0.4% (0.3-0.5% recommended)
2... Sugar, white ....... 45 grams ~1%
3... Salt, pickling ...... 90 grams ~2%
COOL...
4... Cure #1.............. . 11 grams ~153 Ppm nitrite ( edit .. OR 2 tsp for 10#'s)

Folks have mentioned trying other veggie stock and they SUCK compared to the
one I used...

View attachment 475451

Form a pellicle as the smoker cools from 275 to100.... initial smoke.. 100-110F... Then up the temp to 160 ish.... when the meat IT gets to about125ish close the exhaust 90% to stop evaporative cooling... wait for the meat IT to get up to ~135-140 amd turn down the smoker temp if you wish.... I cook pork now to ~140.. I use the pasteurization table and add about 1 hour to the finish time for safety....


Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min
144 (62.2) 5 min
145 (62.8) 4 min
Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

H

Thanks Daveomak I just assumed you knew what it was as you discussed it, with others, in the post I mention, a short time ago. I was just trying to determine if it was the same as the phosphates you use Just a different brand. Thanks for the help.

Hi Dave, I screwed up and bought no salt kitchen basics chicken sto

Dissolve in this order.... Before adding the cure#1, cool the Veggie stock...

Weights are per 500 cc /grams injection liquid (10% injection) no salt vegetable stock
1... Amesphos............ 18 grams ~0.4% (0.3-0.5% recommended)
2... Sugar, white ....... 45 grams ~1%
3... Salt, pickling ...... 90 grams ~2%
COOL...
4... Cure #1.............. . 11 grams ~153 Ppm nitrite ( edit .. OR 2 tsp for 10#'s)

Folks have mentioned trying other veggie stock and they SUCK compared to the
one I used...

View attachment 475451

Form a pellicle as the smoker cools from 275 to100.... initial smoke.. 100-110F... Then up the temp to 160 ish.... when the meat IT gets to about125ish close the exhaust 90% to stop evaporative cooling... wait for the meat IT to get up to ~135-140 amd turn down the smoker temp if you wish.... I cook pork now to ~140.. I use the pasteurization table and add about 1 hour to the finish time for safety....


Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min
144 (62.2) 5 min
145 (62.8) 4 min
Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

Hi Dave, we'll I screwed up and bought no salt chicken stock in stead of vegetable stock, do u think I should use this for the hams? It is kitchen basics,

 

[daveomak]

I might try it... Your ham could taste like yard bird...
Some folks have tried other brands of vegetable stock... Said it wasn't so good... I'd also stick with Kitchen Basics...

 

[Gonna Smoke]

Dave, Amesphos apparently isn't available anywhere that I can find, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Any suggestions on a substitute that is available? I've found PhosThis and Butcher BBQ Phosphate TR and both are available...

 

[BrianGSDTexoma]

Nope... Totally different...

Check E-Bay..... Sodium Tripoly Phosphate Food grade
check meat suppliers for for phosphates....

Details about Sodium Tripolyphosphate STPP ~Food Grade~ Free Shipping Best Price

There are moisture enhancing produicts that include seasonings... Check that they have phosphates...

View attachment 429534

I just used that Butcher Pork on a butt couple weeks ago. Best butt I made in 30 years I think.

 

[daveomak]

Amesphos Specialty phosphate blend (theingredientstore.com)

Click on the above link...