HAM from fresh picnics.. update 10/21 ... MONEY ..

[daveomak]

Food Additives – Craft Butchers' Pantry (butcherspantry.com)

It's STPP.... Sodium tripoly phosphate...

 

[Gonna Smoke]

Amesphos Specialty phosphate blend (theingredientstore.com)

Click on the above link...

Thanks, I found that one and it's on backorder. I have a couple of picnics in my freezer that I bought a couple of months ago for 69¢/lb. and now I have a plan for them...

 

[ramatack]

Thanks, I found that one and it's on backorder. I have a couple of picnics in my freezer that I bought a couple of months ago for 69¢/lb. and now I have a plan for them...

Thanks, I found that one and it's on backorder. I have a couple of picnics in my freezer that I bought a couple of months ago for 69¢/lb. and now I have a plan for them...

Thanks, I found that one and it's on backorder. I have a couple of picnics in my freezer that I bought a couple of months ago for 69¢/lb. and now I have a plan for them...

I just got mine today from butchers pantry

 

[daveomak]

If you use the "phosphate blends" folks sell to flavor meats for BBQ, they have seasonings and spices in them... They may not give the flavor you want....
I'm not saying the veggie stock I add to my hams, is the flavor you want but.....
Adding veggie stock and flavored phosphates to your ham leg, may be a good mix or a bad mix.... hard tellin'...
After all is said and done, try my veggie stock last.....

 

[Gonna Smoke]

If you use the "phosphate blends" folks sell to flavor meats for BBQ, they have seasonings and spices in them... They may not give the flavor you want....
I'm not saying the veggie stock I add to my hams, is the flavor you want but.....
Adding veggie stock and flavored phosphates to your ham leg, may be a good mix or a bad mix.... hard tellin'...
After all is said and done, try my veggie stock last.....

When I get the necessary ingredients together, I'm doing like you did and then adjust from there...

 

[SmokinEdge]

I’ve tried different flavors and different stock. We have settled on Kitchen Basics No salt vegetable stock, I believe that is what Dave uses as well. Any way it’s absolutely delicious. Everybody I’ve given some to rave about it, even my pork producer prefers it over anything else he has eaten. Thanks again for the recipe daveomak

 

[ramatack]

Dave, Amesphos apparently isn't available anywhere that I can find, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Any suggestions on a substitute that is available? I've found PhosThis and Butcher BBQ Phosphate TR and both are available...butcher packer has it, I was looking at it a few days ago. It's in categories under brings I think. Ended up getting stpp from butchers pantry because of shipping, they charge per unit. I usually by every thing from butcher packer

 

[ramatack]

I might try it... Your ham could taste like yard bird...
Some folks have tried other brands of vegetable stock... Said it wasn't so good... I'd also stick with Kitchen Basics...

Well 3 #5-#7 in the fridge, hope they don't taste like chicken lol

 

[daveomak]

I’ve tried different flavors and different stock. We have settled on Kitchen Basics No salt vegetable stock, I believe that is what Dave uses as well. Any way it’s absolutely delicious. Everybody I’ve given some to rave about it, even my pork producer prefers it over anything else he has eaten. Thanks again for the recipe daveomak

Well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile... That's what I think about kitchen basics... I think their stuff is awesome... I really fell into it when I tried it in my picnic ham... Usually, folks add chicken stock to pork products.... Bride suggested chicken stock... I thought.... I'd rather it taste like veggies I add to a pork roast... Damn I was lucky...

 

[SmokinEdge]

This is what I’ve been using daveomak . It works well. Says it is a @blend of instantized sodium phosphates”.

 

[denny]

Amesphos Specialty phosphate blend (theingredientstore.com)

Click on the above link...
Ahh, nomenclature will yet be the death of me! I read some posts recently about TSPP and bought some but haven't yet tried it. Now I hear of STPP and wonder if it is the same as TSPP. I am wary of making my own determinations about chemicals, so would you please set me straight on these 2 products?
Then I read about Amesphos which apparently is about the same as TS/ST PP but maybe a little more "powerful". Is it worthwhile to replace my TSPP with Amesphos or Is this another YMMV? I spend a lot of time at the altars of my favorite smoking Gods but sometimes they understandably speak from different clouds, same level, and I simply can't keep up for lack of experience!
I know, I know I suffer from the common human fault of chasing every idea and device in pursuit of THE thing that will make me successful in smoking Nirvana, when I should settle down to tried and true techniques--but maybe if I just tried it this way..........
Thanks for all your efforts!

 

[daveomak]

I WOULD NOT USE THIS STUFF....


Tetrasodium pyrophosphate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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Tetrasodium pyrophosphate

Related compounds
Hazards
Thermochemistry
Structure
Properties
Identifiers
Names
IUPAC name Tetrasodium diphosphate
Other names Pyrophosphate, Sodium pyrophosphate, Tetrasodium pyrophosphate (anhydrous), TSPP[1]
CAS Number	7722-88-5 13472-36-1 (decahydrate)
3D model (JSmol)	Interactive image
ChEBI	CHEBI:71240
ECHA InfoCard	100.028.880
EC Number	231-767-1
E number	E450(iii) (thickeners, ...)
PubChem CID	24403
RTECS number	UX7350000
UNII	O352864B8Z IY3DKB96QW (decahydrate)
CompTox Dashboard (EPA)	DTXSID9042465
show InChI
show SMILES
Chemical formula	Na4O7P2
Molar mass	265.900 g·mol−1
Appearance	Colorless or white crystals[2]
Odor	odorless
Density	2.534 g/cm3
Melting point	988 °C (1,810 °F; 1,261 K) (anhydrous) 79.5 °C (decahydrate)
Boiling point	decomposes
Solubility in water	2.61 g/100 mL (0 °C) 6.7 g/100 mL (25 °C) 42.2 g/100 mL (100 °C)
Solubility	insoluble in ammonia, alcohol
Refractive index (nD)	1.425
Crystal structure	monoclinic (decahydrate)
Heat capacity (C)	241 J/mol K
Std molar entropy (So298)	270 J/mol K
Std enthalpy of formation (ΔfH⦵298)	-3166 kJ/mol
Gibbs free energy (ΔfG˚)	-3001 kJ/mol
Flash point	Non-flammable
NIOSH (US health exposure limits):
PEL (Permissible)	none[2]
REL (Recommended)	TWA 5 mg/m3[2]
IDLH (Immediate danger)	N.D.[2]
Other anions	Trisodium phosphate Pentasodium triphosphate Sodium hexametaphosphate
Other cations	Tetrapotassium pyrophosphate
Related compounds	Disodium pyrophosphate
Except where otherwise noted, data are given for materials in their standard state (at 25 °C [77 °F], 100 kPa).
verify (what is ?)
Infobox references

Tetrasodium pyrophosphate, also called sodium pyrophosphate, tetrasodium phosphate or TSPP, is an inorganic compound with the formula Na4P2O7. As a salt, it is a white, water-soluble solid. It is composed of pyrophosphate anion and sodium ions. Toxicity is approximately twice that of table salt when ingested orally.[3] Also known is the decahydrate Na4P2O7 · 10(H2O).[4]
Use[edit]
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is used as a buffering agent, an emulsifier, a dispersing agent, and a thickening agent, and is often used as a food additive. Common foods containing tetrasodium pyrophosphate include chicken nuggets, marshmallows, pudding, crab meat, imitation crab, canned tuna, and soy-based meat alternatives and cat foods and cat treats where it is used as a palatability enhancer.
In toothpaste and dental floss, tetrasodium pyrophosphate acts as a tartar control agent, serving to remove calcium and magnesium from saliva and thus preventing them from being deposited on teeth. Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is used in commercial dental rinses before brushing to aid in plaque reduction.
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is sometimes used in household detergents to prevent similar deposition on clothing, but due to its phosphate content it causes eutrophication of water, promoting algae growth.

 

[daveomak]

Not to be confused with Trisodium phosphate.
Sodium triphosphate

Related compounds
Hazards
Properties
Identifiers
Names
IUPAC name Pentasodium triphosphate
Other names sodium tripolyphosphate, polygon, STPP
CAS Number	7758-29-4
ECHA InfoCard	100.028.944
E number	E451 (thickeners, ...)
PubChem CID	517047
RTECS number	YK4570000
UNII	9SW4PFD2FZ
CompTox Dashboard (EPA)	DTXSID9036307
Chemical formula	Na5P3O10
Molar mass	367.864 g/mol
Appearance	white powder
Density	2.52 g/cm3
Melting point	622 °C (1,152 °F; 895 K)
Solubility in water	14.5 g/100 mL (25 °C)
Safety data sheet (SDS)	ICSC 1469
NFPA 704 (fire diamond)	2 0 0
Flash point	Non-flammable
Other anions	Trisodium phosphate Tetrasodium pyrophosphate Sodium hexametaphosphate
Other cations	Pentapotassium triphosphate
Except where otherwise noted, data are given for materials in their standard state (at 25 °C [77 °F], 100 kPa).
verify (what is ?)
Infobox references

Sodium triphosphate (STP), also sodium tripolyphosphate (STPP), or tripolyphosphate (TPP),[1]) is an inorganic compound with formula Na5P3O10. It is the sodium salt of the polyphosphate penta-anion, which is the conjugate base of triphosphoric acid. It is produced on a large scale as a component of many domestic and industrial products, especially detergents. Environmental problems associated with eutrophication are attributed to its widespread use.[2]
Preparation and properties[edit]
Sodium tripolyphosphate is produced by heating a stoichiometric mixture of disodium phosphate, Na2HPO4, and monosodium phosphate, NaH2PO4, under carefully controlled conditions.[2]

2 Na2HPO4 + NaH2PO4 → Na5P3O10 + 2 H2O
In this way, approximately 2 million tons are produced annually.[3]

STPP is a colourless salt, which exists both in anhydrous form and as the hexahydrate. The anion can be described as the pentanionic chain [O3POP(O)2OPO3]5−.[4][5] Many related di-, tri-, and polyphosphates are known including the cyclic triphosphate P3O93−. It binds strongly to metal cations as both a bidentate and tridentate chelating agent.

 

[daveomak]

(414) Food Grade Phosphate – PS Seasoning

Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Powder (STPP), Food grade, Kosher (chemicalstore.com)

Where I buy my stuff.....

Sodium Tripolyphosphate – Craft Butchers' Pantry (butcherspantry.com)

 

[denny]

(414) Food Grade Phosphate – PS Seasoning

Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Powder (STPP), Food grade, Kosher (chemicalstore.com)

Where I buy my stuff.....

Sodium Tripolyphosphate – Craft Butchers' Pantry (butcherspantry.com)

Thanks daveomak! That helps and I'll steer clear of Tetrasodium pyrophosphate! I have STPP (untried) and may get some Amesphos so was wondering if there is a worthwhile difference between the two. So little time to try so many options! Appreciate everyone's help.

 

[daveomak]

Amesphos... It has other ingredients added to improve flavors... I really like it... Joe Ames is a good man...

2nd, Sodium Tripolyphosphate – Craft Butchers' Pantry (butcherspantry.com)

The gentleman that owns this store, is a member here...

 

[foamheart]

Amesphos... It has other ingredients added to improve flavors... I really like it... Joe Ames is a good man...

2nd, Sodium Tripolyphosphate – Craft Butchers' Pantry (butcherspantry.com)

The gentleman that owns this store, is a member here...

Really I should thank him also then. It is my secret Andouille ingrediant!

 

[SmokinEdge]

I WOULD NOT USE THIS STUFF....


Tetrasodium pyrophosphate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Jump to navigationJump to search
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate

Names
Identifiers
Properties
Structure
Thermochemistry
Hazards
Related compounds
View attachment 521654
IUPAC name Tetrasodium diphosphate
Other names Pyrophosphate, Sodium pyrophosphate, Tetrasodium pyrophosphate (anhydrous), TSPP[1]
CAS Number	7722-88-5 13472-36-1 (decahydrate)
3D model (JSmol)	Interactive image
ChEBI	CHEBI:71240
ECHA InfoCard	100.028.880 View attachment 521655
EC Number	231-767-1
E number	E450(iii) (thickeners, ...)
PubChem CID	24403
RTECS number	UX7350000
UNII	O352864B8Z IY3DKB96QW (decahydrate)
CompTox Dashboard (EPA)	DTXSID9042465 View attachment 521656
show InChI
show SMILES
Chemical formula	Na4O7P2
Molar mass	265.900 g·mol−1
Appearance	Colorless or white crystals[2]
Odor	odorless
Density	2.534 g/cm3
Melting point	988 °C (1,810 °F; 1,261 K) (anhydrous) 79.5 °C (decahydrate)
Boiling point	decomposes
Solubility in water	2.61 g/100 mL (0 °C) 6.7 g/100 mL (25 °C) 42.2 g/100 mL (100 °C)
Solubility	insoluble in ammonia, alcohol
Refractive index (nD)	1.425
Crystal structure	monoclinic (decahydrate)
Heat capacity (C)	241 J/mol K
Std molar entropy (So298)	270 J/mol K
Std enthalpy of formation (ΔfH⦵298)	-3166 kJ/mol
Gibbs free energy (ΔfG˚)	-3001 kJ/mol
Flash point	Non-flammable
NIOSH (US health exposure limits):
PEL (Permissible)	none[2]
REL (Recommended)	TWA 5 mg/m3[2]
IDLH (Immediate danger)	N.D.[2]
Other anions	Trisodium phosphate Pentasodium triphosphate Sodium hexametaphosphate
Other cations	Tetrapotassium pyrophosphate
Related compounds	Disodium pyrophosphate
Except where otherwise noted, data are given for materials in their standard state (at 25 °C [77 °F], 100 kPa).
View attachment 521657 verify (what is ?)
Infobox references

Tetrasodium pyrophosphate, also called sodium pyrophosphate, tetrasodium phosphate or TSPP, is an inorganic compound with the formula Na4P2O7. As a salt, it is a white, water-soluble solid. It is composed of pyrophosphate anion and sodium ions. Toxicity is approximately twice that of table salt when ingested orally.[3] Also known is the decahydrate Na4P2O7 · 10(H2O).[4]
Use[edit]
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is used as a buffering agent, an emulsifier, a dispersing agent, and a thickening agent, and is often used as a food additive. Common foods containing tetrasodium pyrophosphate include chicken nuggets, marshmallows, pudding, crab meat, imitation crab, canned tuna, and soy-based meat alternatives and cat foods and cat treats where it is used as a palatability enhancer.
In toothpaste and dental floss, tetrasodium pyrophosphate acts as a tartar control agent, serving to remove calcium and magnesium from saliva and thus preventing them from being deposited on teeth. Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is used in commercial dental rinses before brushing to aid in plaque reduction.
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate is sometimes used in household detergents to prevent similar deposition on clothing, but due to its phosphate content it causes eutrophication of water, promoting algae growth.

So what brand names should be avoided, exactly?

 

[denny]

So what brand names should be avoided, exactly?

Thanks daveomak and everyone! I have ordered Ames phos to use with STTP (not together!) along with Kitchen Basics Vegetable no-salt stock so it looks like I will be busy checking out my new Auber 1510H-W controller. I previously built a controller around an Auber SMD-200A which works perfectly but I wanted to have WIFI. In addition I built another controller around a Mypin TA-4 PID to control temperature with a fan to the firebox. It will be used to run a Marshall charcoal smoker by The Good One. I just need to stop tinkering with electronics and do more smoking. This forum is a joy to use as there is so much good content available. My only problem is finding specific detail which relates to my choice of key words, I guess, and then mining the comments for for the inevitable pearls they will contain! And while I'm at it, Bear's Step by Step contributions make it easy to tackle anything! It's a wonderful site!

 

[daveomak]

So what brand names should be avoided, exactly?

I would avoid stuff that is not food grade STPP... Sodium Tri Poly Phosphate..