Cure #1 and Cold/Cool Smoking

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Thank you. Why would you not add salt? It adds so much natural flavor too.
Lots of folks here are sodium conscious and try to lower sodium but still have delicious smoked cured meats. It really is a delicate balance on the low end. You can go lower with sodium with sausage but really not so much with whole muscle. I would encourage anyone who wants to do this run a test sample. I play with cure methods all the time, never lower salt because I understand the need for salt in cure, but for those who do, they should test it and by all means report back on the progress.
 
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Thank you. Why would you not add salt? It adds so much natural flavor too.
Just a question if the the 93.75% salt in cure #1 had the ability to move the nitrite to cure, which it doesn't. I've been adding seasoning with salt as the first ingredient with the cure vs 1-2%salt and it cures through and flavors in the same time.
 
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It takes 6% salt to stop C. Botulism if only salt is used. Nitrite will neutralize botulism and stop both from multiplying and stops the formation of toxin, nitrite does not kill the botulism bacteria.

As to weather you can cure with just cure #1 with no salt:

I don’t recommend it. Can it be done? Probably, but there is much more to the process. Salt plus cure #1 work together to produce a cured product. I’m speaking here about whole muscle meats, commuted meat such as sausage are a bit different as they are mixed. Salt is the carrier and is the horsepower behind nitrite. The higher the percentage of salt the faster the cure happens. This is the rate of diffusion. Without salt nitrite cannot penetrate the meat. Now cure #1 has 93.75% salt but in application we generally apply cure 1 at .25% This is very little very little. To be clear it is 1.1g per pound or roughly 5.5g per 5 pounds meat, this is equal to 1 tsp per 5# meat. If cure 1 is applied this way with no additional salt it will still act but will do so very slowly. (Consider that 1.5% salt would add 6.81g salt per pound) huge difference in horsepower.

Also salt slows or controls the growth of spoilage bacteria. The process of curing has safety hurdles for a reason and salt is a big one. Using cure #1 with salt is how the process works. Salt in concentration also lowers the available water with in meat (AW) by extracting it from the meat. (another safety hurdle) the remaining water in meat, most of it, is bound by the salt and is unavailable to bacteria which need water to multiply. Meat that has only cure #1 at .25% should be treated as raw meat as far as refrigeration time goes. How long would you leave raw meat in the refrigerator? Not long enough for the curing process for sure.

Curing meat is much more than just applying cure #1. It’s a process with many components.

In my opinion you can safely cure and successfully cure meats with lower salt. 1.0% salt is bare minimum then add .25% cure 1 for all in sodium at 1.25% but this is dragging on the edge of safety and success. I would also recommend hot smoke only if using these percentages.
Bingo. Thanks. I was looking for the USDA paper because my post above doesn't appear to be the correct paper she posted for curing. Senarios were with uncured meat and never mentioned cured meats.
 
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Thank you! I am not sure what brand they are I bought them at HEB.

I just wanted to cure these and no added salt and sugar individually sealed in a bag 8 days min, So I can take them one, two or three out of the fridge raw over a month and lightly season with Rabers before cold smoking a couple hours then hot smoking to 143IT so not as much salt over time that seems to make a firmer result vs softer/tender.

So being raw with cure #1 only is that safe a few weeks before opening seasoning to smoke and finish or does additional salt at 1.5% need to be added in the calculator for CB and Belly Bacon? I like the results of not freezing right after curing and keep in the fridge before I need to freeze them if I can't eat them.
There is some great conversation going on here regarding the advantages that salt brings to the party. Both from a safety point of view, and from a flavor point of view. Shooting from the hip, I would think that curing chops like you mentioned, and holding them for more than a few days in the fridge is questionable.

Now, that said.... let's take a trip on the way-back machine...., and check out this method for chops from the Morton Home Meat Curing Guide that my Grandparents and Parents followed. It's possible to do a short cure on some chops... and they turn out wonderful. I still use TQ for some things, partially for nostalgia, but you can do a day or two cure using Cure#1 on chops with good results.



 
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There is some great conversation going on here regarding the advantages that salt brings to the party. Both from a safety point of view, and from a flavor point of view. Shooting from the hip, I would think that curing chops like you mentioned, and holding them for more than a few days in the fridge is questionable.

Now, that said.... let's take a trip on the way-back machine...., and check out this method for chops from the Morton Home Meat Curing Guide that my Grandparents and Parents followed. It's possible to do a short cure on some chops... and they turn out wonderful. I still use TQ for some things, partially for nostalgia, but you can do a day or two cure using Cure#1 on chops with good results.




I've been adding salt within the seasoning to the cure #1 and haven't gone cure only and the salt in the seasoning is moving cure in 8 days for a 1.5" chop. I can't find the paper on min salt for curing. Im looking for links bc the paper she showed above in my post was about spaghetti and uncured senarios.

The color/flavor of this salty seasoning sprinkled on with the cure vs 1.5% salt for an 8 day min is great. I'll keep adding with the cure.
20221006_193551.jpg
 
There is some great conversation going on here regarding the advantages that salt brings to the party. Both from a safety point of view, and from a flavor point of view. Shooting from the hip, I would think that curing chops like you mentioned, and holding them for more than a few days in the fridge is questionable.

Now, that said.... let's take a trip on the way-back machine...., and check out this method for chops from the Morton Home Meat Curing Guide that my Grandparents and Parents followed. It's possible to do a short cure on some chops... and they turn out wonderful. I still use TQ for some things, partially for nostalgia, but you can do a day or two cure using Cure#1 on chops with good results.




Great post thirdeye thirdeye , this shows 1 Tbs of Morton’s Tender Quick to 1 pound of meat ( Tender Quick is mostly salt) This verse the original question about using 1/5 of a tsp per pound of meat through cure #1. Absolute huge difference in salt concentration.
 
I dry cure pork loin at 1% total salt and without sugar. It took me a couple tries as without the higher salt AND added sugars, the nitrite does not penetrate as fast. I ended up doubling the recognized cure time to get a get it fully to the center and acceptable flavor.
Intact meat receives a very high salt level on the exterior where the bacteria reside. Remember, the salt is on an equilibrium level that accounts for the entire meat weight. I haven't done the volumetric calculations but I estimate the salt starts around 4% even with a 1% target equilibrium.

Cutting slabs at 1.5 inches to dry cure is going to be a challenge. That is a lot of surface area to try evenly distribute the curing salt.
I don't really go for wet, but your situation may be the better choice.
 
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It takes 6% salt to stop C. Botulism if only salt is used. Nitrite will neutralize botulism and stop both from multiplying and stops the formation of toxin, nitrite does not kill the botulism bacteria.

As to weather you can cure with just cure #1 with no salt:

I don’t recommend it. Can it be done? Probably, but there is much more to the process. Salt plus cure #1 work together to produce a cured product. I’m speaking here about whole muscle meats, commuted meat such as sausage are a bit different as they are mixed. Salt is the carrier and is the horsepower behind nitrite. The higher the percentage of salt the faster the cure happens. This is the rate of diffusion. Without salt nitrite cannot penetrate the meat. Now cure #1 has 93.75% salt but in application we generally apply cure 1 at .25% This is very little very little. To be clear it is 1.1g per pound or roughly 5.5g per 5 pounds meat, this is equal to 1 tsp per 5# meat. If cure 1 is applied this way with no additional salt it will still act but will do so very slowly. (Consider that 1.5% salt would add 6.81g salt per pound) huge difference in horsepower.

Also salt slows or controls the growth of spoilage bacteria. The process of curing has safety hurdles for a reason and salt is a big one. Using cure #1 with salt is how the process works. Salt in concentration also lowers the available water with in meat (AW) by extracting it from the meat. (another safety hurdle) the remaining water in meat, most of it, is bound by the salt and is unavailable to bacteria which need water to multiply. Meat that has only cure #1 at .25% should be treated as raw meat as far as refrigeration time goes. How long would you leave raw meat in the refrigerator? Not long enough for the curing process for sure.

Curing meat is much more than just applying cure #1. It’s a process with many components.

In my opinion you can safely cure and successfully cure meats with lower salt. 1.0% salt is bare minimum then add .25% cure 1 for all in sodium at 1.25% but this is dragging on the edge of safety and success. I would also recommend hot smoke only if using these percentages.
I'll stick with 1.5% salt or more. So this gives me cured, raw in the 37°F fridge 30 days to use? Once fully cooked to 145°F, then the nitric oxide breaks down and back in the fridge I'm back to 7 days max like regular uncured cooked meat or does having been cured with min 1.5% salt give a residual longer cooked duration in the fridge?
 
I dry cure pork loin at 1% total salt and without sugar. It took me a couple tries as without the higher salt AND added sugars, the nitrite does not penetrate as fast. I ended up doubling the recognized cure time to get a get it fully to the center and acceptable flavor.
My cure times for an average pork loin is 7 or 8 days and that has been consistent when using Hi Mountain's Buckboard cure, a Tender Quick based cure, or a curing mix containing Cure #1.

I do two things differently before the rubbed meat goes into the curing bag. Since it takes a couple of days for the dry cure to draw liquid from the loin, I either add a few tablespoons of bottled water to the bag, -OR- I'll inject a few ounces of water or apple juice into the loin.
 
I'll stick with 1.5% salt or more. So this gives me cured, raw in the 37°F fridge 30 days to use? Once fully cooked to 145°F, then the nitric oxide breaks down and back in the fridge I'm back to 7 days max like regular uncured cooked meat or does having been cured with min 1.5% salt give a residual longer cooked duration in the fridge?
You have maybe 30 days in refrigeration total Using 1.5% salt. I’ve had meat start to get slimy at 3 weeks in cure and I once ran a batch of 4” thick ham steaks with the Dave O injection with 1.5% salt, these were cured early for Easter one year because of the constraints of time I was way early. They cured 14 days then smoked and refrigerated for another 14 days at which time they were starting to grow mold. Was a hard lesson for sure.

1.5% salt is on the very low side of traditional curing, but it tastes great so I do use it. I cure most everything 14 days then smoke and rest in refrigerator for 1 additional week for equalizing then either eat it or freeze it.
 
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You have maybe 30 days in refrigeration total Using 1.5% salt. I’ve had meat start to get slimy at 3 weeks in cure and I once ran a batch of 4” thick ham steaks with the Dave O injection with 1.5% salt, these were cured early for Easter one year because of the constraints of time I was way early. They cured 14 days then smoked and refrigerated for another 14 days at which time they were starting to grow mold. Was a hard lesson for sure.

1.5% salt is on the very low side of traditional curing, but it tastes great so I do use it. I cure most everything 14 days then smoke and rest in refrigerator for 1 additional week for equalizing then either eat it or freeze it.
This is good info! I'm here to learn, so I'm making note of this.

I'm doing some Bear's dried beef with lean EOR. Do you think it will benefit from an extra week in the fridge before slicing/consuming/storing?
 
This is good info! I'm here to learn, so I'm making note of this.

I'm doing some Bear's dried beef with lean EOR. Do you think it will benefit from an extra week in the fridge before slicing/consuming/storing?
I’m not familiar with the process, but generally yes, you need a curing time, then a resting or equalization time for the meat. This is a good thing.
 
This is good info! I'm here to learn, so I'm making note of this.

I'm doing some Bear's dried beef with lean EOR. Do you think it will benefit from an extra week in the fridge before slicing/consuming/storing?
My original question was if the salt in cure is enough to cure meat. I found it isn't. I also didn't try it. So 1.5% salt min I'll stick with. I've cured, smoked and dried beef with 2% salt at 145-150 for 24 hours with 2" max diameter chunks of EOR. The only way you can have room temp stable meat is to reduce the water activity very low or drop the ph below 4.2. After curing, drying and slicing dried beef with a food slicer you should have more time storing in the fridge than hydrated raw, cured pork at 27 or so days max. Plus dried beef chunks/slices open in the fridge keep drying.
 
My original question was if the salt in cure is enough to cure meat. I found it isn't. I also didn't try it. So 1.5% salt min I'll stick with. I've cured, smoked and dried beef with 2% salt at 145-150 for 24 hours with 2" max diameter chunks of EOR. The only way you can have room temp stable meat is to reduce the water activity very low or drop the ph below 4.2. After curing, drying and slicing dried beef with a food slicer you should have more time storing in the fridge than hydrated raw, cured pork at 27 or so days max. Plus dried beef chunks/slices open in the fridge keep drying.
Thanks for that. Yeah 1.5% min is ok with me as well. What I have in cure right now is following Bear's recipe, using Tender Quick, so I don't really know what percentage of salt that is. Maybe someone here knows how to compute it.

Tomorrow is Day 14 in the dry cure, so I'm gonna finish it this weekend. My pellet grill will go down to around 150, and I'm pretty sure the MB gravity feed will as well. I'll start out low for a few hours then bump it up to finish.

You mentioned chunks and slices in the fridge. Is it better to age the chunks before slicing? If you can wait that long...lol
 
I'll stick with 1.5% salt or more. So this gives me cured, raw in the 37°F fridge 30 days to use? Once fully cooked to 145°F, then the nitric oxide breaks down and back in the fridge I'm back to 7 days max like regular uncured cooked meat or does having been cured with min 1.5% salt give a residual longer cooked duration in the fridge?
Store bought bacon has a refrigeration date of months. That probably applies to keeping in the vac packaging. I've kept bacon in a zip lock for a few weeks.
 
Thanks for that. Yeah 1.5% min is ok with me as well. What I have in cure right now is following Bear's recipe, using Tender Quick, so I don't really know what percentage of salt that is. Maybe someone here knows how to compute it.

Tomorrow is Day 14 in the dry cure, so I'm gonna finish it this weekend. My pellet grill will go down to around 150, and I'm pretty sure the MB gravity feed will as well. I'll start out low for a few hours then bump it up to finish.

You mentioned chunks and slices in the fridge. Is it better to age the chunks before slicing? If you can wait that long...lol
I have the salt, sugar, nitrite, and nitrate levels of Tender Quick but cannot find them in my notes.
As I previously posted, Tender Quick is a gradient (not an equilibrium) based cure. Gradient means it is time based for amount of salt and nitrite applied to your meat. Longer means more salt and nitrites. I found it is not reliable if you have variable thickness of meat and how your hand spreads the cure across the meat. Plus after the time is reached, the meat must be rinsed and rest for at least an qual time to complete the salt and nitrite penetration to the center.
Equilibrium is a universal meaning once you pass the minimum time for salt and nitrite, it will never get saltier or excess nitrite.
 
My cure times for an average pork loin is 7 or 8 days and that has been consistent when using Hi Mountain's Buckboard cure, a Tender Quick based cure, or a curing mix containing Cure #1.

I do two things differently before the rubbed meat goes into the curing bag. Since it takes a couple of days for the dry cure to draw liquid from the loin, I either add a few tablespoons of bottled water to the bag, -OR- I'll inject a few ounces of water or apple juice into the loin.
Even at 1% total salt, my loin cures draw out liquid in a matter of hours. I turn them every 12 hours for the first couple of days until most of the liquid is pulled back and once a day after. They cure for at least 2 weeks.
 
To figure percentages first weigh the meat in pounds then convert that to grams. Here what that looks like.

5 pounds of meat
multiply 5 x 454 (grams in a pound)
2270 grams
Now figure percentages of salt at 1.5%
2270 x .015= 34.05g salt

solve for cure #1 at .25%
2270 x .0025= 5.67g cure #1

Just move the decimal place to the left two places for multiplying percentage.

solve for 2% salt:
2270 x .02= 45.4g salt.

Hope this helps.
This absolutely does help. Thanks for sharing, very cool. Is this just for dry curing? Would I calculate the same except, total weight for wet cure? Or does it not work like that?
 
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