Cure #1 and Cold/Cool Smoking

[SmokinEdge]

This is how European cure is applied. Much different than in the US.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Poland and possibly some other European countries allow more than the US amount of 0.25%.

To go farther, the 0.25% we use on these forums is imparting 156ppm, this is maximum allowed in commuted meats not dried, by the USDA. On whole muscle meats dry rubbed or brined, this would be bellies, loins or buckboard style bacon, the upper limit in the US is 200ppm, or 0.32% of cure #1 applied. In pumped bacon the USDA limit is 120ppm. Lots of rules and regulations, and if we go into longer processed dry cured meats the allowable nitrite per USDA is 625ppm.

No European country allows anywhere close to these levels of nitrite. Fact.

 

[thirdeye]

This is how European cure is applied. Much different than in the US.
View attachment 527152

To go farther, the 0.25% we use on these forums is imparting 156ppm, this is maximum allowed in commuted meats not dried, by the USDA. On whole muscle meats dry rubbed or brined, this would be bellies, loins or buckboard style bacon, the upper limit in the US is 200ppm, or 0.32% of cure #1 applied. In pumped bacon the USDA limit is 120ppm. Lots of rules and regulations, and if we go into longer processed dry cured meats the allowable nitrite per USDA is 625ppm.

No European country allows anywhere close to these levels of nitrite. Fact.

I stand corrected, THIS was the calculator I was thinking of, which supports your figures.

Never try to quote the book unless it's in your hand.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I stand corrected, THIS was the calculator I was thinking of, which supports your figures.

Never try to quote the book unless it's in your hand.

Actually I think I took you wrong thirdey, your statement that European countries use more than the US 0.25% is actually 100% correct. This is because their cure salt only contains 0.6% nitrite, vs our 6.25% so they would need to use much more than 0.25% of their salt to effectively cure. You are correct and I think I just read your post wrong, either way some good information was posted as a result. Always appreciate your input thirdeye , and you are rarely, if ever wrong. You post good information.

 

[thirdeye]

Actually I think I took you wrong thirdey, your statement that European countries use more than the US 0.25% is actually 100% correct. This is because their cure salt only contains 0.6% nitrite, vs our 6.25% so they would need to use much more than 0.25% of their salt to effectively cure. You are correct and I think I just read your post wrong, either way some good information was posted as a result. Always appreciate your input thirdeye , and you are rarely, if ever wrong. You post good information.

I see your angle on this...., but I actually did think that Poland and Czechoslovakia allowed for using more Cure #1, which as we know was called Prague Powder for a reason. This article on the HISTORY of Prague powder is fascinating. Once science got involved to replace salt only, then later experiments determined how (potassium and sodium) nitrate produced nitrites, which did the real work.

 

[indaswamp]

Fascinating read thirdeye!!!! Thank you for posting!! I'm now wondering if Morton's Tender Quick is a copy cat recipe off the original Czech. Praganda!!!!

 

[indaswamp]

It also explains to me WHY there is nitrate in Morton's tenderquick....it being observed in equilibrium with nitrite in the Dutch pickle brine.....

 

[thirdeye]

Fascinating read thirdeye!!!! Thank you for posting!! I'm now wondering if Morton's Tender Quick is a copy cat recipe off the original Czech. Praganda!!!!

It also explains to me WHY there is nitrate in Morton's tenderquick....it being observed in equilibrium with nitrite in the Dutch pickle brine.....

I've wondered the same thing, or at least it inspired the Morton engineers...

I hope you noticed the link to the .pdf and "Bacon and the art of living" link that appear just below the byline. Also the header is full of links to the "untold stories of food science" A real gem is the Salt Bridge.

 

[dr k]

Does .25% cure #1 156ppm cure completely without the addition of more salt for safety since it's 93.75% salt? Some mention a min addition of 1.5% salt but what I read wasn't mentioning this for cured meat. If no additional salt is necessary, it may be bland but just wondering if additional salt is mandatory?

 

[indaswamp]

Does .25% cure #1 156ppm cure completely without the addition of more salt for safety since it's 93.75% salt? Some mention a min addition of 1.5% salt but what I read wasn't mentioning this for cured meat. If no additional salt is necessary, it may be bland but just wondering if additional salt is mandatory?

What are you trying to make?

 

[dr k]

What are you trying to make?

Just in general because I thought chef jimmy j said the 6.25% cure #1 and the 93.75% or so of salt is all you need to safely cure but may be bland for mostl. And the FB page Makin Bacon ( The Original) says a min of 1.5 % of added salt is needed to be safe. And the Admin bases that off of this paper that talks about SV too low over time like 127 vs 130 min to pasteurize and uncured meat not fully cooked so live c bot bacteria and not hot enough to force spore forming so in a low oxygen environment 1.5% salt is the min. This paper is about uncured meat to me and I don't think it applies to cured meat which is what her page is all about making bacon. So she tells everyone you need a min 1.5% salt entered in the digging dog farms eq calculator.

 

[thirdeye]

Does .25% cure #1 156ppm cure completely without the addition of more salt for safety since it's 93.75% salt? Some mention a min addition of 1.5% salt but what I read wasn't mentioning this for cured meat. If no additional salt is necessary, it may be bland but just wondering if additional salt is mandatory?

Check out this dry cure RECIPE and technique for pastrami from Greg Blonder. He does add some salt to Cure #1, but it's only used to increase the volume of the Cure #1 which makes it easier to apply. Below is a snip from the recipe that mentions his dry cure mixture. In all fairness, I followed Blonder's method using a 4 or 5 pound brisket flat, and did not care for the finished product. You may experience different results.

• Make up a mixture of TWO volumes of Pink Curing Salt #1 (also known as Prague Powder #1) to ONE volume of fine grain (or regular table) salt, and store for use in a tightly closed container. This ratio will produce a dark pastrami color and just the right amount of saltiness. Then measure out 1/4 tsp of the mixture per pound of meat (e.g. 2 level tsps for an 8 lb navel).

 

[dr k]

Check out this dry cure RECIPE and technique for pastrami from Greg Blonder. He does add some salt to Cure #1, but it's only used to increase the volume of the Cure #1 which makes it easier to apply. Below is a snip from the recipe that mentions his dry cure mixture. In all fairness, I followed Blonder's method using a 4 or 5 pound brisket flat, and did not care for the finished product. You may experience different results.

• Make up a mixture of TWO volumes of Pink Curing Salt #1 (also known as Prague Powder #1) to ONE volume of fine grain (or regular table) salt, and store for use in a tightly closed container. This ratio will produce a dark pastrami color and just the right amount of saltiness. Then measure out 1/4 tsp of the mixture per pound of meat (e.g. 2 level tsps for an 8 lb navel).

I like cutting 1.5" thick boneless pork loin Americas cuts for individual back bacons/cured boneless loin chops for smoking so no trimming fat and silver skin for a whole loin back bacon. Each chop weighs about 278 gms and I plug it into the digging dog farms eq calculator at 156ppm cure #1. I really like the local Rabers pork seasoning similar to the standard Custom seasoning with the first three ingredients being salt and sugar plus a few others like paprika etc. I just wanted to cure these and no added salt and sugar individually sealed in a bag 8 days min, So I can take them one, two or three out of the fridge raw over a month and lightly season with Rabers before cold smoking a couple hours then hot smoking to 143IT so not as much salt over time that seems to make a firmer result vs softer/tender. I can also drop to 120ppm for maybe a juicier result. So being raw with cure #1 only is that safe a few weeks before opening seasoning to smoke and finish or does additional salt at 1.5% need to be added in the calculator for CB and Belly Bacon? I like the results of not freezing right after curing and keep in the fridge before I need to freeze them if I can't eat them.

 

[hooked on smoke]

Excellent, thank you.
I'm new to curing and this is very helpful. Now all I need is to get the percentages, (salt, sugar etc.), figured out. I'm completely lost when I comes to that. I know there is a calculator out there but I still can't seem to get it. If I remember correctly I was unable to adjust the percentage in the parameters. It's been a while so I don't recall exactly.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Just in general because I thought chef jimmy j said the 6.25% cure #1 and the 93.75% or so of salt is all you need to safely cure but may be bland for mostl. And the FB page Makin Bacon ( The Original) says a min of 1.5 % of added salt is needed to be safe. And the Admin bases that off of this paper that talks about SV too low over time like 127 vs 130 min to pasteurize and uncured meat not fully cooked so live c bot bacteria and not hot enough to force spore forming so in a low oxygen environment 1.5% salt is the min. This paper is about uncured meat to me and I don't think it applies to cured meat which is what her page is all about making bacon. So she tells everyone you need a min 1.5% salt entered in the digging dog farms eq calculator.
View attachment 661605

It takes 6% salt to stop C. Botulism if only salt is used. Nitrite will neutralize botulism and stop both from multiplying and stops the formation of toxin, nitrite does not kill the botulism bacteria.

As to weather you can cure with just cure #1 with no salt:

I don’t recommend it. Can it be done? Probably, but there is much more to the process. Salt plus cure #1 work together to produce a cured product. I’m speaking here about whole muscle meats, commuted meat such as sausage are a bit different as they are mixed. Salt is the carrier and is the horsepower behind nitrite. The higher the percentage of salt the faster the cure happens. This is the rate of diffusion. Without salt nitrite cannot penetrate the meat. Now cure #1 has 93.75% salt but in application we generally apply cure 1 at .25% This is very little very little. To be clear it is 1.1g per pound or roughly 5.5g per 5 pounds meat, this is equal to 1 tsp per 5# meat. If cure 1 is applied this way with no additional salt it will still act but will do so very slowly. (Consider that 1.5% salt would add 6.81g salt per pound) huge difference in horsepower.

Also salt slows or controls the growth of spoilage bacteria. The process of curing has safety hurdles for a reason and salt is a big one. Using cure #1 with salt is how the process works. Salt in concentration also lowers the available water with in meat (AW) by extracting it from the meat. (another safety hurdle) the remaining water in meat, most of it, is bound by the salt and is unavailable to bacteria which need water to multiply. Meat that has only cure #1 at .25% should be treated as raw meat as far as refrigeration time goes. How long would you leave raw meat in the refrigerator? Not long enough for the curing process for sure.

Curing meat is much more than just applying cure #1. It’s a process with many components.

In my opinion you can safely cure and successfully cure meats with lower salt. 1.0% salt is bare minimum then add .25% cure 1 for all in sodium at 1.25% but this is dragging on the edge of safety and success. I would also recommend hot smoke only if using these percentages.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Excellent, thank you.
I'm new to curing and this is very helpful. Now all I need is to get the percentages, (salt, sugar etc.), figured out. I'm completely lost when I comes to that. I know there is a calculator out there but I still can't seem to get it. If I remember correctly I was unable to adjust the percentage in the parameters. It's been a while so I don't recall exactly.

To figure percentages first weigh the meat in pounds then convert that to grams. Here what that looks like.

5 pounds of meat
multiply 5 x 454 (grams in a pound)
2270 grams
Now figure percentages of salt at 1.5%
2270 x .015= 34.05g salt

solve for cure #1 at .25%
2270 x .0025= 5.67g cure #1

Just move the decimal place to the left two places for multiplying percentage.

solve for 2% salt:
2270 x .02= 45.4g salt.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cody_Mack]

Meat that has only cure #1 at .25% should be treated as raw meat as far as refrigeration time goes. How long would you leave raw meat in the refrigerator? Not long enough for the curing process for sure.

This is still a little confusing to me. With refrigeration time, which stage (in the curing and production process) are you talking about? It’s been discussed a lot, that you can’t really go too long in the cure stage. Are you saying, without additional salt added to Cure #1?

 

[SmokinEdge]

This is still a little confusing to me. With refrigeration time, which stage (in the curing and production process) are you talking about? It’s been discussed a lot, that you can’t really go too long in the cure stage. Are you saying, without additional salt added to Cure #1?

without additional salt added to cure 1 the raw refrigerated time should not be longer than raw meat with no cure #1. There just isn’t enough salt concentration to control spoilage bacteria, the meat will sour. Once cooked (40-140 in under 4 hours) the refrigerator time would be the same as a seasoned piece of meat cooked.

 

[DougE]

1.5% regular salt plus cure#1 is about my lower limit. Salt is what drives the whole process and without enough of it to move the cure into the muscle, the process will fail to work.

 

[Cody_Mack]

without additional salt added to cure 1 the raw refrigerated time should not be longer than raw meat with no cure #1. There just isn’t enough salt concentration to control spoilage bacteria, the meat will sour. Once cooked (40-140 in under 4 hours) the refrigerator time would be the same as a seasoned piece of meat cooked.

Thank you. Why would you not add salt? It adds so much natural flavor too.