?? Confused about CURES ??

[chef jimmyj]

You are welcome and Good Luck...JJ

 

[Bearcarver]

 
The temps studies found to be a problem are 350°F or higher. Unfortunately is 350-375°F is the typical temp that Restaurants and most people cook at in a frying pan, med/hi. This is more so out of habit and the need for speed. This is also the temp that browns meat and other food quickly. I pretty much feel Nitrosamines can form in the stomach from ingesting a variety of foods and I only eat Bacon once a week at most. There is a lot more stuff that will kill you faster than eating Bacon...JJ

Thanks JJ !!

It appears we use a lower temp than most. I usually turn it on high just to get it up there fast, but then turn it down, so as to not burn my Bacon.

Bear

 
Thanks Chef JJ.

Yes, I've done chicken on a grill indirect heat with smoke and it was great.  But I never done Turkey leg or breast that way.

So I guess if I am going to smoke turkey, I'll just brine the bird same as I do for oven cooking, only cook it @ 300* in smoker.  I would finish in oven if I couldn't approaching 165* IT in reasonable amount of time on smoker.

Thanks for your quick answer.  I want smoked turkey, not turkey ham.

Cured & smoked Turkey legs are Hammy & Awesome.

I have also had a fully cured & smoked Turkey, and even though I know it's perfectly safe, it makes me think about it while eating it, and scares most people away from it, because it looks so raw.

Bear

 

[fpmich]

Well, I "thought" I was done with this thread.   But now I've got another question!

I just put a salmon filet, cut into pieces in a brine Monday night, thinking 1 day to brine, one night to dry in fridge and smoke on Wednesday.

They changes the weather forecast on me again (LOL) so now I'll have to wait until Thursday to smoke without standing in the rain.

My question is, will it be OK to leave fish in brine for 2 days instead of one.  I'm pretty sure it is, but wanted to be sure.

Also, will the extra time in brine make my fish more salty, or mushy?

In case it depends on the cure, here is what I used.

1 gal. water (non-chlorinated)

1 c. TQ

1/2 c. Splenda

1/3 c. brown sugar

1/3 c. real maple syrup

sliced orange, lemon, lime, bay leaves, peppercorns, bruised garlic gloves, dill weed, & Ramp powder, in place of onions.

Thanks for your help once again.

 

[mr t 59874]

As far as salinity, that is a pretty weak brine.  You will most likely do just fine.  I use twice that and let mine brine for approx. 16 hours.

Tom

 

[fpmich]

Tnx Mr. T.  I feel better now.

Guess I'll have to build a shelter so I can smoke semi-comfortable in inclement weather.  I doubt I can talk wife into it tho.  LOL

 

[pigbark]

What kind of Bay Leaves did ya add in ?

your brine sounds good..

 

[Bearcarver]

IMO---It depends on your brine. Over 8 hours would be too long for my brine.

I would suggest using your original plan for brine time, and use up the rest of the time uncovered in a fridge accumulating pellicle.

Bear

 

[mr t 59874]

 
Tnx Mr. T.  I feel better now.

Guess I'll have to build a shelter so I can smoke semi-comfortable in inclement weather.  I doubt I can talk wife into it tho.  LOL

Are you brining to cure your fish or are you using your brine as a marinade to simply flavor you fish?  There is quite a difference between the two.  I would suggest that if you don't know the % salinity of your brine and the corresponding brining time, it should be treated as fresh fish throughout the complete smoking process.

As for your shelter, build it when she is away and hang a picture of her on the inside. 

Tom

 

[fpmich]

Well, Crap!  After reading that this was weak brine, I just re read the bag of TQ.  It's says 1 cup to 4 cups water.  I had misread it to mean 1 cups to 4 quarts water.

So now what?  It's been in this 1/4 strength TQ brine for 24 hours now.  Do I mix up another 3 cups of TQ with some of the water and add it back in?  4 cups of TQ seems like an awful lot of salt to me.  And if I added that much more in should I also increase by sugars as well?

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Well, Crap!  After reading that this was weak brine, I just re read the bag of TQ.  It's says 1 cup to 4 cups water.  I had misread it to mean 1 cups to 4 quarts water.

So now what?  It's been in this 1/4 strength TQ brine for 24 hours now.  Do I mix up another 3 cups of TQ with some of the water and add it back in?  4 cups of TQ seems like an awful lot of salt to me.  And if I added that much more in should I also increase by sugars as well?

Personally I would leave it alone. The only salt in a gallon of my marinade is 1/2 cup of salt & 6 ounces of Soy Sauce, and everyone who has tried it loves it. You even had yours in your marinade 4 times as long as I do. I would put it in the fridge, uncovered until you're ready to smoke it. Then make sure you smoke it to at least 145*. Some say my marinade is weak, except for those who followed my Step by Step. They love it.

Check out my Smoked Salmon in my signature below to compare.

Bear

 

[pigbark]

I keep fish filets in water for up to 5 days as im soaking it in regular salt water after cleaning it- what was the expiration date on your package? .you should be ok if it was fresh when you bought it as long as your not trying to preserve it..

TQ is very salty, I havnt tried it yet but I have 2 bags in the cabinet..Sodium level is very high

 

[mr t 59874]

Personally I would go with what you have and make the adjustments on the next one's you do.  Just treat it as a you would fresh fish and store accordingly.    I encourage those that want cured fish to follow the manufactures recommendations as they are tested and proven with known % salinity's.  When curing fish it is important not to change the recommended salt content of your brine, adjustments are made by changing the other ingredients. If you are looking to just add flavoring to your fish, you can use other recipes with unknown salinity's, but handle as you would fresh fish for obvious safety reasons.  You cannot judge if a fish has been safely cured by taste.

Tom 

 

[fpmich]

Thanks to all of you for replying to my emergency.  Man do I appreciate it!  Whew!  I feel a little better now.

Pig Bark,
I don't what kind of Bay.  Whole leaves, of whatever the grocery store sold me, is my best guess.

Mr T 59874,
Any reason not to do both cure/brine and add flavors at same time?  Seemed like it would be a natural thing to do.

If "for curing" you mean for long time storage, then no, I am not doing it for that reason.  I just thought the added protection of a cure would make sure I don't make my brother, my sister and myself sick.  This will get used up or frozen within 10 days.
I plan to take to an IT of 145* - 155* within 4 hours, and then dry it a little more after that time if needed.

I've smoked salmon a couple times before and never used a cure, just brine and flavors.  Didn't use a therm' either, just relied on touch, flaky ness, moisture and taste.  Stupid maybe, but no one got sick and I am sure I got temps well over 150*  a couple times during the smoke using my grill, because I got a little of the white ooziness stuff, which I just wiped off.

Expiration date?  NONE.

Whole filet was frozen in my brothers freezer for a year.  I made him no promises tho.  It was not slimy when I rinsed it off after thawing in fridge for 3 days, and did not have a strong "fishy" smell.  Flesh was firm and color looked good.  I only trimmed of a little belly fat, removed a fin and the tail, and pulled the pin bones out of it.

Bearcarver, Any downside to fridge drying the salmon for 2 days rather than 1, or less?

I'm wondering if it will make it a little "too dry" when I 1st start smoking.

-------------------------

Anyone else with answers jump in please.  I'm debating whether or not to go out to kitchen right now and rinse it and place on racks in fridge or wait until tomorrow.  It will still have 20-24 hours of fridge drying if I wait until tomorrow.

I think with this batch, I will be doing a taste test before smoking.  Rinse a small piece well, fry or nuke it to cook, and taste.  If too salty, then soak another little piece for awhile, and try again.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Generally, Brines work in two ways, Low salt a long time, High salt a short time. You have the fish sufficiently brined and if you are treating it like a fresh fish and hot smoking to 140-150°F. There will be no safety issues. As far as Pellicle there is no reason you can't keep it wrapped in plastic one day and dry the next 24Hrs all the way up to keeping it wrapped up to the 2 hours before hot smoking and placing it in front of a Fan on the counter to get a quick Pellicle...JJ

 

[fpmich]

Thank you Chef.

I'm relieved to know that.

Based on my brine strength, should I take it out now and cover for a day,  Or am I okay leaving it in brine until tomorrow and then dry overnight?

You may have to read up to see when I started.

I will bring it up to temp within 4 hours.

 

[chef jimmyj]

If you are worried about it drying too much, take it out of the brine and just wrap until tomorrow. I have not brined fish more than a few hours so I am not sure what a 2 day brine will do to the meat texture...JJ

 

[pigbark]

Depends on the fish, most times with the fish I brine "Striper and Catfish", it tightens the filets up rather firm but when it cooks I see no difference in the texture only the taste..they cook the same..

We just learned 1 thing, Chef JJ isn't a fisherman... sooooooo, tell us about your 4 hr fish brine please,would love to hear whats in it... please don't say Milk.

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
Depends on the fish, most times with the fish I brine "Striper and Catfish", it tightens the filets up rather firm but when it cooks I see no difference in the texture only the taste..they cook the same..

We just learned 1 thing, Chef JJ isn't a fisherman... sooooooo, tell us about your 4 hr fish brine please,would love to hear whats in it... please don't say Milk.

For the last few years I been using Bearcarver's Brine. Good Stuff.

I was big into Freshwater fishing 25 years ago. I had a sweet '87 Bayliner Fish and Ski, was no Ranger but got the job done. Two pedestals seats, 24LB Electric Motor with Foot Control, two live wells, 90HP Force Outboard. I got married a year later, house, babies shortly after...Had to sell my toys...

...I get to drown a Minnie once in a while...JJ 

 

[pigbark]

o man, I hate to see the boat go... Breaks my heart just hearing it... dammer man.. sounds like a sweet rig for its day... you prolly saved money by selling it though.. B. break O. out A. another T. thousand -

2/3 of a gallon of water

1/3 Apple cider vinegar top off gallon jug with this then pour in big pot.

2/3 cup salt

1/2 cup garlic , usually heaping as I love it..

2 fresh lemons

1/4 cup  pepper

that's if we had a good day fishing lol...  been days where the bucket sat empty or just a few  filets in regular ole salt water lol...

 Im gonna go looking at Bears old posts and find that concauction...see what else I can learn today,

have a good 1 JJ.

 

[chef jimmyj]

I hear ya Bro, was not a day we owned that boat that it didn't cost money. The day we went to pick it up my bro and I got in to inspect everything, was beautiful. My bro broke out one of the bubble windshields swinging his leg out, $100... First day on the water I turned just in time to watch the the engine trailering bar, that kept the engine up off the road, vibrate across the small part of deck next to the engine and plop in 20' of water, $50...I could go on but don't want a Hijack situation to take the thread. Here, save you some search time...JJ

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/91264/final-smoked-salmon-with-recipe-instructions-and-qview