Cabela's 40" Black Smoker by Masterbuilt

[Thundamonkey]

Question: Are these 45° overshoots over the top of the setting happening after the Heating element shuts off, and I'm talking about the MES read-out.
It should shut off when it gets up to your setting, and it should restart when it gets down to a degree below your setting. Anything that happens while the element is off has nothing to do with you MES, and can be remedied.

Here's how:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/208552/avoid-temp-swings-in-mes-by-bear

Bear

I will review your post linked Bear, thank you.

As for your question about the swings, that is from my wireless probes, so what I'd like to this are accurate ambient temps. The machine itself is shutting on and off properly (as per it's own temp readings). I had it set for 225 and it turned off at 225-227 and the temp on the machine would only indicate a 10-15 degree swing (so 235-240) but on my probes I was getting as high as 270 during a 225 run.

I get the impression that the temp sensor, while better, might still be off given there is such a variance between my calibrated probes and the machines readouts.

 

[Thundamonkey]

Something I found useful when testing my MES 30" was of course to monitor the highs and lows but also and just as important as far as letting you know what is going on is to document when the heating element (red light) goes on and off. Then you know what is heat and what is coast.

I found on mine that the first heating cycle after the unit was turned on and after the door had been open was the most extreme. So, I would close the door and then let it go through two cycles before I checked the temperature swing. The highs and lows that just last a minute or two after the door has been open is a very small percentage of time when doing a 5 hour or more smoke. Now the title under my name should be NEW Newbie but that is the way I view the swings.

I hear you on the initial swing being the most extreme, and I considered that while reviewing my numbers. I ran it for 3+ hours and the swings only slightly tightened up over that time. The swings were usually 25-30ish over in the final few hours.

 

[THW]

One thing I have learned that was a surprise to me was the amount of temperature swing in cooking appliances. I tested my kitchen and found it had right about a 40* swing. And I did a lot of reading and found that that amount of swing was somewhat typical. A big difference with it was I could adjust the setting so the the swing was as equal above the set temp as it was below. So 20* over and 20* under, providing a temp closer to what a recipe called for. With the MES units, there is not a compensating adjustment so you just need to change your set temperature to put your desired temperature in the middle of the swing.

Good luck

 

[jimmyinsd]

If they are seeing a 40 degree swing, for stuff like sausage where you want to avoid a fat out, would you then set the MES at 140 so the max it got was 180?

I'm curios as I a considering buying one of the 40s and want to know what I'm getting myself into.

 

[Bearcarver]

I will review your post linked Bear, thank you.

As for your question about the swings, that is from my wireless probes, so what I'd like to this are accurate ambient temps. The machine itself is shutting on and off properly (as per it's own temp readings). I had it set for 225 and it turned off at 225-227 and the temp on the machine would only indicate a 10-15 degree swing (so 235-240) but on my probes I was getting as high as 270 during a 225 run.

I get the impression that the temp sensor, while better, might still be off given there is such a variance between my calibrated probes and the machines readouts.

Usually that difference between the MES read-out & a Maverick Reading is the Maverick is more sensitive & isn't connected to a big steel smoker back panel. And the Maverick sensor is usually at a different place, because we don't put the food in the back of the 3rd rack near the MES sensor.

The important thing is to set the MES heat at a point that will make the Maverick (Near your meat) read what you want your meat in.

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

One thing I have learned that was a surprise to me was the amount of temperature swing in cooking appliances. I tested my kitchen and found it had right about a 40* swing. And I did a lot of reading and found that that amount of swing was somewhat typical. A big difference with it was I could adjust the setting so the the swing was as equal above the set temp as it was below. So 20* over and 20* under, providing a temp closer to what a recipe called for. With the MES units, there is not a compensating adjustment so you just need to change your set temperature to put your desired temperature in the middle of the swing.

Good luck

Exactly!!

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

If they are seeing a 40 degree swing, for stuff like sausage where you want to avoid a fat out, would you then set the MES at 140 so the max it got was 180?

I'm curios as I a considering buying one of the 40s and want to know what I'm getting myself into.

A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.

When my MES is empty, it swings from 2° under to 2° over.
When I put cold meat in there the swing gets wider, but never more than 15° above or below.

Bear

 

[jimmyinsd]

okay, but if you only want a high of 175 say to avoid losing your fat, wouldnt you then set your smoker at 160 to account for that 15 degree swing? thus it never gets to hot and turns your fat to liquid? if you set it at your target temp and it went 15 over you would spend part of your cook at 190 and part at 160, as opposed to setting at 160 and bouncing from 145 to the target of 175. ( is my question making sense?)

A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.

When my MES is empty, it swings from 2° under to 2° over.
When I put cold meat in there the swing gets wider, but never more than 15° above or below.

Bear

will the bouncing over that target of 175 and then coming back down still have the issue of liquefying the fat, or does the average balance out and not seem to be a problem?

 

[Bearcarver]

okay, but if you only want a high of 175 say to avoid losing your fat, wouldnt you then set your smoker at 160 to account for that 15 degree swing? thus it never gets to hot and turns your fat to liquid? if you set it at your target temp and it went 15 over you would spend part of your cook at 190 and part at 160, as opposed to setting at 160 and bouncing from 145 to the target of 175. ( is my question making sense?)


will the bouncing over that target of 175 and then coming back down still have the issue of liquefying the fat, or does the average balance out and not seem to be a problem?

I understand your question, and you need the 15° over and the 15° under to maintain an average of 160°. It shouldn't fat out during the Short time it will be at the peak of the 30° cycle, just like it won't hurt it to be at the 145° valley for a short time during each cycle.

Bear

 

[Thundamonkey]

A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.

When my MES is empty, it swings from 2° under to 2° over.
When I put cold meat in there the swing gets wider, but never more than 15° above or below.

Bear

you only get a 2 degree swing when it is empty? All my mentioned temps were empty. I haven't bothered trying to cook anything yet until I have it somewhat dialled in. I am still hopeful this will get sorted, but it is a little frustrating given how spot-on my bradley was out of the box.

 

[Bearcarver]

you only get a 2 degree swing when it is empty? All my mentioned temps were empty. I haven't bothered trying to cook anything yet until I have it somewhat dialled in. I am still hopeful this will get sorted, but it is a little frustrating given how spot-on my bradley was out of the box.

I haven't done a big time check on it lately, but I know that's what it was when it was new & I did the Full Check on it & reported it to Masterbuilt. I was amazed---Held a 2° up & 2° down swing for hours.

Bear

 

[Thundamonkey]

I haven't done a big time check on it lately, but I know that's what it was when it was new & I did the Full Check on it & reported it to Masterbuilt. I was amazed---Held a 2° up & 2° down swing for hours.

Bear

Man, makes my 40-45 swing seem insane lol

 

[Bearcarver]

Man, makes my 40-45 swing seem insane lol

Here's the actual Report I sent to Masterbuilt:
After putting a Maverick Smoker Probe on both the Left & Right sides at the same time, I set the Temp to 215°, because I wanted an average of 230° on rack #3. In a very short time the heat stabilized, so that the MES Readout cycled from a low of 213° to a high of 217°. These temps come from the MES heat sensor, which is in the center of the back wall of the smoker. At this same time, the heat on the Left Side was cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. And as hard as it is to believe, the right side was also cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. After watching & recording it for hours at different Temps, I watched this cycling for about 20 minutes. Then tiring from the hours of watching & recording, I took an hour break, and went in the house to my recliner. Then after that hour, I went back out to see what it was doing, and it was still cycling with those exact same temperatures. I had seen enough to make this report, and this is the report I gave to Masterbuilt.
I couldn’t believe how this Smoker cycled from 228° to 232° for hours, making that average the 230° I wanted, and both sides were the same Temp without using a makeshift heat deflector to balance it out. IMHO, A heat cycle range of 4° is Amazing!!!


Bear

 

[zwiller]

I'm all for accuracy but a 10% swing (200F temp 40deg swing=20/20) doesn't seem that bad at all. That's still way better than what I could pull off on my gasser.

 

[jimmyinsd]

in regards to the Gen 2.5 temp swings. I have read numerous accounts of crazy temp swings and run aways, but I am starting to think that has to do with the blue tooth feature as some say like Bear that they havent experienced the issue, but they arent using the blue tooth either. I would like to see the G2.5 with an RF remote as that sounds like it would be the best of both worlds as RF is better range and is proven technology that wont be screwed up with software/operating system updates and stuff like that in the future. My phone doesnt have to do everything for me.

 

[Bearcarver]

in regards to the Gen 2.5 temp swings. I have read numerous accounts of crazy temp swings and run aways, but I am starting to think that has to do with the blue tooth feature as some say like Bear that they havent experienced the issue, but they arent using the blue tooth either. I would like to see the G2.5 with an RF remote as that sounds like it would be the best of both worlds as RF is better range and is proven technology that wont be screwed up with software/operating system updates and stuff like that in the future. My phone doesnt have to do everything for me.

Exactly!!
And that was the one thing that I suggested to Masterbuilt that they didn't listen to, when I did my test & report for them.
For some reason they kept the Bluetooth in it---Maybe cheaper for them??? I don't know.

Bear

 

[jimmyinsd]

Exactly!!
And that was the one thing that I suggested to Masterbuilt that they didn't listen to, when I did my test & report for them.
For some reason they kept the Bluetooth in it---Maybe cheaper for them??? I don't know.

Bear

With all these different models and gens and variations out there, have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere? Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors. I know Cabelas has the blue tooth, but in a unit with no window in the door. I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.

 

[Bearcarver]

With all these different models and gens and variations out there, have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere? Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors. I know Cabelas has the blue tooth, but in a unit with no window in the door. I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.

Right, They intermingle different parts of different Generations too---I call them Hybrids.

A While back there was a couple guys who had problems with their Bluetooths, and Masterbuilt sent them what was needed to convert their smokers to RF. That would be ideal IMO.
I would imagine you could buy that changeover, but I just use the console.

Bear

 

[Thundamonkey]

Here's the actual Report I sent to Masterbuilt:
After putting a Maverick Smoker Probe on both the Left & Right sides at the same time, I set the Temp to 215°, because I wanted an average of 230° on rack #3. In a very short time the heat stabilized, so that the MES Readout cycled from a low of 213° to a high of 217°. These temps come from the MES heat sensor, which is in the center of the back wall of the smoker. At this same time, the heat on the Left Side was cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. And as hard as it is to believe, the right side was also cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. After watching & recording it for hours at different Temps, I watched this cycling for about 20 minutes. Then tiring from the hours of watching & recording, I took an hour break, and went in the house to my recliner. Then after that hour, I went back out to see what it was doing, and it was still cycling with those exact same temperatures. I had seen enough to make this report, and this is the report I gave to Masterbuilt.
I couldn’t believe how this Smoker cycled from 228° to 232° for hours, making that average the 230° I wanted, and both sides were the same Temp without using a makeshift heat deflector to balance it out. IMHO, A heat cycle range of 4° is Amazing!!!


Bear

That is very impressive. I will have to sit down and get some concrete numbers later today when I get home and find out exactly where my numbers will be. I was running on rack 5, then 4, then 3, and the range was only slightly improved with each higher rack. I'll make a spreadsheet of probe temps and MES temp with a split and report back. I am pretty sure it won't be remotely as good as yours though Bear lol

 

[Thundamonkey]

With all these different models and gens and variations out there, have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere? Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors. I know Cabelas has the blue tooth, but in a unit with no window in the door. I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.

I have that model and it comes with 6 racks, an integrated wired temp probe, a sausage hook, and a cover. Having it come with the 2 extra racks is great and saved me a few bucks. I would have liked the RF remote given how far it's range it compared to the bluetooth (which I don't use as a result), but it isn't a deal breaker. I don't know of any internal differences beyond the other gen 2.5s out there.