# "Why not just use the oven or a crock pot, then toss in some liquid smoke?"

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Hopefully one that can distinguish between each brisket that's presented to it.
A well written algorithm has variables to handle all variances.

seenred
A well written algorithm has variables to handle all variances.
What about the variables that you had no idea were going to happen, that happen to show up along the way of the cook

seenred
A well written algorithm has variables to handle all variances.
But the real question is, does it speak beef?

seenred
What about the variables that you had no idea were going to happen, that happen to show up along the way of the cook

But the real question is, does it speak beef?
That's why you have the basic If-then statements.

Chris

D diversification
I have done meat in a stick burner, electric smoker, charcoal grills (that I coax into a smoker), pellet grill, and directly in the oven or a roaster using liquid smoke.
Some people were happy (maybe they were being nice?) with the liquid smoke braised meat. I wasn't happy as using the liquid smoke gave me a taste reminiscent of the smell of an ashtray and the meat gets a mushy consistency from the braising.
I've had many compliments for the aroma, taste, texture, and appearance of meat from a smoker.
For a butt I start my meat on a smoker, but once it gets to wrap point it goes in the oven, but I don't braise it. Just keep the heat moderate to let the butt progress to the probe tender level. Once wrapped, why are you smoking? The wrap stops the smoking.

I believe the science comes down to the Maillard reaction. Meat in the smoker takes on an enhanced flavor both from the smoke as well as the Maillard that is much deeper than simply pan searing a hunk of meat before braising it to mush.
?

You had my attention until you mentioned that guy. He once stated that 250°F was different in different smokers. He wasn't referring to shelf level, heat flow, altitude, chamber pressure, etc. He meant the actual temp. The MS guy his own physics.

And now I regret your boosting your comment-count-sized ego by quoting you favorably, earlier. I'm surprised that you not only misinterpreted a comment by Jeremy, but got so bent out of shape by it that you felt the need to comment in and attempt to not only dismiss everything he says but also this thread as well. Yikes.

D diversification
I have done meat in a stick burner, electric smoker, charcoal grills (that I coax into a smoker), pellet grill, and directly in the oven or a roaster using liquid smoke.
Some people were happy (maybe they were being nice?) with the liquid smoke braised meat. I wasn't happy as using the liquid smoke gave me a taste reminiscent of the smell of an ashtray and the meat gets a mushy consistency from the braising.
I've had many compliments for the aroma, taste, texture, and appearance of meat from a smoker.
For a butt I start my meat on a smoker, but once it gets to wrap point it goes in the oven, but I don't braise it. Just keep the heat moderate to let the butt progress to the probe tender level. Once wrapped, why are you smoking? The wrap stops the smoking.

I believe the science comes down to the Maillard reaction. Meat in the smoker takes on an enhanced flavor both from the smoke as well as the Maillard that is much deeper than simply pan searing a hunk of meat before braising it to mush.
?
That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps there are differences with how the Maillard reaction works at high vs low heat. Did a bit of googling and I'm still slogging through increasingly complex info about how the reaction works, however I also stumbled onto something I hadn't considered earlier. Liquid Smoke is made by condensing the smoke; it's very possible that the other compounds released from burning that interact with and/or adhere to the meat during the cook either don't condense well, or perhaps do condense, but then somehow decay/denature/etc. That plus I suspect creosote is much more likely to be gathered efficiently during the condensing process than it is by the meat. I don't have anything to back these guesses up, but I'll keep looking.

And now I regret your boosting your comment-count-sized ego by quoting you favorably, earlier. I'm surprised that you not only misinterpreted a comment by Jeremy, but got so bent out of shape by it that you felt the need to comment in and attempt to not only dismiss everything he says but also this thread as well. Yikes.
Butthurt much? In case you haven't paid attention, this forum is very awash with people that have VAST experience in the art of smoking meats, and are very kind to lend their advice to the newbs such as myself. Also, trying to apply science to smoking meats is sometimes a fools errand. A 10 lb pork butt may take 12 hours until edible today, 20 hours tomorrow, and 8 yesterday. We've all been there, and I quit trying to apply logic, and math to it. If it takes longer, that's just more beer that I get to enjoy. As far as liquid smoke, I don't like it. Does it have a place in my kitchen? Yes! I have an electric indoor smoker that I use liquid smoke with because I am sometimes lazy as hell. Does it replicate a smoker, No! Let me give you some advice. Instead of attempting to humiliate Ray, aka noboundaries , why don't you ask why he thinks MS is full of \$hit. You might learn something.

Butthurt much? In case you haven't paid attention, this forum is very awash with people that have VAST experience in the art of smoking meats, and are very kind to lend their advice to the newbs such as myself. Also, trying to apply science to smoking meats is sometimes a fools errand. A 10 lb pork butt may take 12 hours until edible today, 20 hours tomorrow, and 8 yesterday. We've all been there, and I quit trying to apply logic, and math to it. If it takes longer, that's just more beer that I get to enjoy. As far as liquid smoke, I don't like it. Does it have a place in my kitchen? Yes! I have an electric indoor smoker that I use liquid smoke with because I am sometimes lazy as hell. Does it replicate a smoker, No! Let me give you some advice. Instead of attempting to humiliate Ray, aka noboundaries , why don't you ask why he thinks MS is full of \$hit. You might learn something.
A disrespectful and dismissive comment was met with the same in return - hardly a shocking sight. Based on the way you've rushed to his defense it seems to you value respect, so I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. And yes, I have noticed the wealth of knowledge here, in fact I mentioned in my OP. As you pointed out, there are plenty of folks with experience, and some of them are happy to share that info; I'm happy to receive it from some of them.

I think understanding food science is important, and I think understanding it makes me a better cook. Quite a lot of chefs and home cooks would likely agree. Plenty of others would likely agree with your belief that it's a fools errand. I think we can at least agree to disagree.

It sounds like your experience matches up with what I'd expect. Having said that I'm going to keep looking for more information that answers the "why" question a bit more thoroughly. Thanks for your comment either way.

EDIT: Ah... I see now that comment-count genuflections aren't exactly optional; my comment is gone, and his remains lol.

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I think understanding food science is important, and I think understanding it makes me a better cook. Quite a lot of chefs and home cooks would likely agree. Plenty of others would likely agree with your belief that it's a fools errand. I think we can at least agree to disagree.

Ah...your inquiries begin to make more sense to me, and I'm viewing this thread in a slightly different light. It seems that you and I view the process of cooking from opposite ends of the spectrum - but that doesn't mean that either is more right or wrong than the other.

I approach cooking as more of an art than a science. When I initially responded that I didn't believe a more scientific answer existed, I suppose I was being prejudiced by my own approach to cooking - that a scientific answer would have little meaning to me. Clearly you enjoy diving in to the deep end...while for me cooking is a simple pleasure, approached simply.

This thread has become a little chippy...and I apologize for my role in that. And I agree that we should be able to respectfully agree to disagree.

Red

diversification
Ah...your inquiries begin to make more sense to me, and I'm viewing this thread in a slightly different light. It seems that you and I view the process of cooking from opposite ends of the spectrum - but that doesn't mean that either is more right or wrong than the other.

I approach cooking as more of an art than a science. When I initially responded that I didn't believe a more scientific answer existed, I suppose I was being prejudiced by my own approach to cooking - that a scientific answer would have little meaning to me. Clearly you enjoy diving in to the deep end...while for me cooking is a simple pleasure, approached simply.

I want you to know that I really appreciate this response - thank you. And honestly, I do agree that cooking often becomes an artform. The way I produce art the best is playing around a bit and getting my hands dirty, but then starting to do deep dives that help me establish a fundamental understanding of things, so that I can leverage and exploit that knowledge in an effort to bring myself to the next level. As you mentioned this isn't for everyone and differences in process are honestly awesome, because everyone having the same approach would be boring as heck!

This thread has become a little chippy...and I apologize for my role in that. And I agree that we should be able to respectfully agree to disagree.

Red

No worries. I get a bit sensitive to dismissiveness directed at newcomers for a few reasons. First, dismissive behavior from longstanding members often deadens ideas and discussion prematurely, which is frustrating to see. Second, I've been forum veteran before, and I have always tried to abstain from that type of behavior. Third, I've watched more than one newcomer drop out because of veteran behavior, and then watched that same newcomer rise up at another forum and play an important role.

Anyway, I want to thank you again for your thoughtful response. Grill on!

I want you to know that I really appreciate this response - thank you. And honestly, I do agree that cooking often becomes an artform. The way I produce art the best is playing around a bit and getting my hands dirty, but then starting to do deep dives that help me establish a fundamental understanding of things, so that I can leverage and exploit that knowledge in an effort to bring myself to the next level. As you mentioned this isn't for everyone and differences in process are honestly awesome, because everyone having the same approach would be boring as heck!

No worries. I get a bit sensitive to dismissiveness directed at newcomers for a few reasons. First, dismissive behavior from longstanding members often deadens ideas and discussion prematurely, which is frustrating to see. Second, I've been forum veteran before, and I have always tried to abstain from that type of behavior. Third, I've watched more than one newcomer drop out because of veteran behavior, and then watched that same newcomer rise up at another forum and play an important role.

Anyway, I want to thank you again for your thoughtful response. Grill on!

It’s all good!

Lastly, I would like to mention that, on the whole, I believe this to be the friendliest, most helpful and positive forum membership on the Web. I hope that a couple of offhanded remarks won’t turn you away from a fine community.

Red

...
This thread has become a little chippy...and I apologize for my role in that. And I agree that we should be able to respectfully agree to disagree.

Red
A little chippy? I think it was rather significant by those that cannot see the forest through the trees.
I haven't seen such an ape chest pounding by the yellow bars in some time (granted I miss most posts)

Hey this is like the show Matilda

I'm right

I'm big

I'm smart

BAAAAAHAHAHAHA

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