The Camp looks terrible right now (Lots of pics)

[Bearcarver]

Jerry,

I hate to keep wearing you out on this subject, but I lived in or around woods and/or mountains all of my life.

It looks to me like those who planted those trees that you removed, planted them all too close together.

I would think that had a lot to do with them being stunted.

If we had forest around here like that, my Dad could have never taken his 3040 Krag hunting. It wouldn't have fit between the trees.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Bear

 

[alblancher]

Bear,

Remember that down here the paper mills plant the majority of the forests.  Their only purpose is to get the most pulp per acre possible.  I would say that 90% of the mill planted forests are densely planted like that in neat straight rows.  They intend to harvest in 17 years when the trees reach 6 - 9 inches in diameter.  Sawmill lumber (small dimensional) takes about 24 years but the value of this lumber is much greater then the pulp lumber.   Higher grade sawmill lumber takes about 33 years but their value is a lot higher then the smaller dimensional lumber.  

I would think private property owners have the option to replant dense and plan to thin out to make a paper mill harvest leaving some trees for a sawmill harvest.  Clear cutting has it's advantages and just doing a clear cut and replant every 17 - 18 years is economically feasible.

I'm not a tree guy, just relaying some info I have picked up over the years.

Al

 

[pineywoods]

AK we could have cut it in sections but that would just delay getting it all replanted. It was a tough decision I was told by one forester three years ago to clear cut it but couldn't stand the thought of doing it. Last year when another very trusted forester told me the same thing it was time to act. Cutting more means the loggers are willing to do the extra things you want done, the planting prices are cheaper per acre when you have more acreage to do, the tree costs are a little less as you buy more of them

VirginiaSmokeSignal we do plan on leaving about 10-15 acres unplanted 

Rob a pond is in the plans but may be awhile before it gets done

Jeff I think we still have a little room for you the beer and oysters. Rick could load several semis with the oaks that are laying on the ground. I still have to go out there and get the dozen or so cherry trees that are on the ground.

Bear they used to plant the trees on 8' rows and 4' spacing between trees not all would survive but most would then they would come in at 12-15 years and thin them getting pulp wood which would generate a little income. At 17-20 years they would do a second thinning and get some chip and saw and generate more income. Then at about 25-30 years old they would come back and clear cut harvesting mostly logs and some pole timber. The times of cutting were usually determined by the density of the entire stand and when they thinned you usually got a jump in growth as the trees got both more sun and less competition for the nutrients. The new recommendations for planting is 10' rows and 6' spacing or 12' rows and 5' spacing

 

[ak1]

Oh OK, I get it now.

 

[Bearcarver]

Sorry Jerry & Al, being a Yankee I never heard of anything like that.

Up here they do a lot of selective cutting.

When they do clear-cut, they take all the big hardwoods to the sawmills, cut all the hardwood limbs into firewood, take any big softwood to sawmills, and take all the smaller softwood trees & limbs to pulp mills. This is not counting the few nice short fat pine logs that a lucky Bearcarver used to get for practically nothing. The guy I knew had a special place for pine logs less than 14' long. A 7' tall Bear would have to come from a log no smaller in diameter than 3'. I could pick any of them I wanted for $10 per ton, and the guy even put them on my trailer with his picker.

The biggest thing up here is the hardwoods, as the best hardwoods on the East coast come from Upper Maryland, all of PA, and the lower half of NY.

Thanks for the tree growing lesson. I thought you were clear cutting to plant "crops", because I never heard of growing trees for the purpose of cutting them down in a certain amount of time, except Christmas Trees.

See---You really can teach an Old Bear new tricks.

Thanks guys,

Bear

 

[alblancher]

Yea Bear,

I think the entire South East from Eastern Texas to the Atlantic Ocean north to Tennesse and through South Carolina is planted with pulp wood.  Now you know where all that cardboard comes from!

 

[pineywoods]

They closed a good sized pulp wood mill near here but they have opened a OSB (oriented strand board) plant so they are using lots of small diameter wood. Pine trees are the biggest market here and they use the small stuff for pulp wood or it goes to the OSB plant. Chip n Saw is the next larger diameter and it will get saw into boards and what's left gets used for pulp wood or the OSB plants. Logs they will take to another mill where they make plywood with most of it. Then there is the pole timber and that usually brings the most money.

I should have taken pictures of them doing the logging it's a cool operation especially when you've never seen it.

Around here they use a wheeled "feller buncher" which has a huge round cutting disc on it and hydraulic arms it also articulates in the middle. The machine drives up to the tree and cuts it off then holds it in the hydraulic arms while the tree is still standing upright then he'll cut several more all still standing upright until he gets a load. When he gets a load he goes and dumps them into piles. Many times at this point he will drive over the top of the trees from one end to the other breaking off branches. It's quite a site watching him carry a load of trees standing straight up and moving around. Even in heavy woods you can pretty much tell where he's at by the moving trees way up in the air. For those of you thinking it yes I asked and he said yes once in a great while the machine will turn over with a load of trees in it but not often he said usually he can drop them real quick and avoid going over.

Then comes the "skidder" and it has what looks like a giant claw on the back he will grab a huge pile of trees and drag them to the loader. He has to get them into a position so the loader can reach them and he also has to drag away the debris and pile or spread it.

The loader is mounted on a semi trailer and has what they call a delimber on it he also has a rack with hydraulic mounted saws on it that he sets to the side of the unit. When the logs are drug up to him he sits up in the cab and grabs it with the grapple of the loader and determines the size/quality of the tree. He will then maneuver the top into the delimber and run it back and fourth to break off any remaining limbs then a hydraulic saw comes down and cuts the tip of the tree off. He then loads it on the trailer or places it in a pile of like sized wood to load later. If it's pulp wood or chip n saw he will load it onto the trailer whole. If its ply logs it will go into the rack which has measurements and he will cut it with the hydraulic saws to the proper lengths then load them or stack them.

The loggers that worked here had three semis running and 7 trailers. They also had an old semi that just stayed here moving trailers. They would load a trailer with lets say pulp wood and pull it into a clear area then bring another trailer to load with whatever. Loads are not mixed a trailer will be all pulp wood or chip n saw or logs. The semi drivers come in with the empty trailer drop it in one area then go hook to a loaded trailer and off they go to the mill. While logging here they went to at least four different mills and the driver would go wherever his load was designated for. Once in a great while there wouldn't be a trailer ready and the driver would pull his trailer right up to the loader to get loaded but that didn't happen most of the time those semis stayed moving.

Its really something to watch all that machinery run by a well experienced crew. They have a/c and heat in the cabs of all the machines and the operators rarely come out of them. They have one other guy that is the ground man/gopher he moves all the trailers and does whatever else needs done to allow the others to keep running their machines. When they pull in there's well over a million dollars of machinery on site

 

[raptor700]

You did the right thing jerry, If you replant the proper trees, slash or lob-lolly probably. They will grow at a rate of 3' per year, you'll have a new forest in no time!

 

[carpetride]

Looks like plenty of room to bring the camper and setup for a grand gathering of SMF 

 

[nwdave]

Up here in the northwest, many private landowners converted their lands to Pulp tree farms.  Now they have many of these farms standing with no market.  So much for that investment.  It's a very fickle market.

 

[virginiasmokesignal]

Jerry,  One quick question, it looks as if the area that they clear cut has no stumps, how did they get rid of the stumps or am I just missing them?  Also, I'll ask you and maybe if you don't know or can't find out someone else here will.  My house is built in a Black Walnut Grove, these trees are ready to cut, about 60-70 ft. tall, nice round big trunks, one tree comes up in a solid trunk about 2 foot above and then splits into three trunks each about 3 ft. in diameter.  I was just wondering what top grade black walnut was bringing now if anyone knows.  I have approximately 18-20 tree's all ready for cutting.  What I would really like to know though is where's the stumps?  Take care Jerry, you got a beautiful place!

Barry

 

[pineywoods]

The stumps are there still just hard to see. They will plant the new trees in between the rows of the old stumps and they will be left to rot. Black Walnut prices very widely from what I understand and depends mostly on the quality of the logs and if there's a good market for them in your area. I think the first thing I would do is contact a local state forester and while he more than likely is barred from telling you what he thinks they are worth he can provide you with information on how to market them

 

[rio_grande]

If you just want a round about figure hit your local hardwood mills and ask for a price spec sheet. Of the 4 I hit here I got 3 sheets, the other was a small mill and he wouldnt comit to any prices. Probably wouldt sell there anyway. I found out my trees wernt worth as much as I expected....

 

[Bearcarver]

Most Walnut tree owners only have one or two (at least in PA), and around here it ends up a bidding war between fine cabinet makers & wood turners. Price can get very high.

If you can get ahold of one, check the personal ads in the  magazine "Fine Woodworking". That is the Cadillac of woodworking mags.

Bear

 

[deannc]

Interesting reading!  The things we can learn about here on SMF.  

I've always been interested as during my nearly 30 years of living here in NC I've seen several large tracks of land harvested (pine probably for pulp), some clear-cut other area's I guess would have been selected harvesting.  I've always been amazed with the rate of growth. 

Might have to have a working party at the gatherin! I was goggling maps last night, if I can only get the wife off of work. 

 

[pineywoods]

Dean I hope ya'll make it down for the Gathering it's a good time. I don't think we'll be doing much work that weekend other than working on having fun. I do usually set up the wood splitter for those that wanna play and or get some smoking wood to take home with them

 

[mballi3011]

The place sure looks different in the pictures Jerry. Maybe we will have a tree planting contest during the gathering. I will volunteer to be the counter guy. I'm not sure I can reach the ground anymore. Heck maybe I'll just fall down. Now Laurel you are going to have to watch out now when your at your stand cause we will be able to see you form the camp.

 

[Bearcarver]

The place sure looks different in the pictures Jerry. Maybe we will have a tree planting contest during the gathering. I will volunteer to be the counter guy. I'm not sure I can reach the ground anymore. Heck maybe I'll just fall down. Now Laurel you are going to have to watch out now when your at your stand cause we will be able to see you form the camp.

I swear Mark!!!

I nearly choked on that one, and I'm not making that up! 

Bear

 

[sumosmoke]

Geesh ... such a sad sight ... but all will get better over time. My little hut is now open to everything!

 

[rio_grande]

LOoks like profit to me LOL

IT will grow back,,, Kinda like the feed lot after the fall sales got from 20-30 head to 2 in one day,,,, Got quiet around home till the calvs started dropping again.