Testing new smoke generator with water cooler

[mr t 59874]

jarjarchef,  I hope the Easter Bunny lays one of those in my basket. 

 

[shannon127]

Here is the best analogy I can think of:  If you have ever smoked a pipe.  As long as you let the pipe burn you do not get the bitter creosote flavor.  But if you draw too hard too often, it quickly gets bitter.  I think the same is true with wood.  If it burns quickly, you will get far more billowing white smoke which is bitter tasting.  A slower burn that is not over stoked (TBS), will give you better penetration and less bitter taste.  Everyone's tastes are different.  Hell there are actually people who like the flavor of Moxie, so why not bitter surface smoked meat

 

[diggingdogfarm]

re: thin smoke

Hop on youtube and check out some of the videos of folks smoking stuff in Poland., I've watched dozens and dozens and there are very few that I'd characterize as being thin smoke. They really like to pour on the smoke! I was rather shocked! :icon_eek:

Draw your own conclusions.




~Martin

 

[chef jimmyj]

I guess my choice of words has lead to a misunderstanding...My original point was White Smoke is NOT desirable in " the small smokers most of us have "...

You " LIKE " the result you get from 55 years of using White Smoke that is fine, but are you pumping that into a 2 to 4 cubic foot smoke chamber that, again, the majority of us have, for many hours?  I have only been smoking for 25 years and " KNOW " White smoke makes my food, that which I smoke 2 hours to 2 days in an NB Horizontal Offset and now MES 40, taste like it was smoked with Telephone Poles...

Regarding your statement of using white smoke for short bursts of flavor...  

White smoke can contribute positively to the flavor and color of smoked foods and if not used correctly the results can be bitter rather than smoky.   I stress again smoke management and will give a couple examples of using a heavy smoke for flavor.

1.  Cold smoking poultry for 15 - 20 minutes prior to finishing  on a grill. 

2.  Placing a just cooked steak in a heavy cold smoke environment during the resting period for two to three minutes will add a tremendous amount of flavor.  

I agreed with you on smoke management. However, I am sure that fancy Smoke generator is not Cheap...Seems like a BIG investment to smoke 2 to 20 minutes or even an Hour because beyond that, any additional time pumping White Smoke into a small smoker, will create a flavor that will not be desirable for most.

Quote...As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ

Are you saying that I am suggesting members do something dangerous? "

How you came to the above conclusion is beyond me...What my point was/is, up to your statement there has been no mention of Yellow or Black smoke on any of the SMF forums. White Smoke threads, countless, are followed up with warnings that there is a problem with the Op's fire or technique and that without correction may result in a Creosote or undesirable flavors on the meat...

There has never been a disagreement that Smoke , Herbs , Spices, Marinades, etc...Are flavoring tools to be properly managed. My only and continued point is that Pumping Billowing White Smoke into a " Small Smoker " will give undesirable results. You chose to take the discussion further or prove me wrong or whatever with," White Smoke is useful if applied for a few minutes. " OK, I agree...But how many of our members smoke for a few minutes? The Forrest from the Tree is Thin Blue Smoke is the goal in most Smoking scenarios. All I wanted to know was if Navigators new toy could be adjusted to give TBS...JJ

 

[mr t 59874]

I guess my choice of words has lead to a misunderstanding...My original point was White Smoke is NOT desirable in " the small smokers most of us have "...

I have small smokers also and White Smoke can still be managed.

You " LIKE " the result you get from 55 years of using White Smoke that is fine, but are you pumping that into a 2 to 4 cubic foot smoke chamber that, again, the majority of us have, for many hours?  I have only been smoking for 25 years and " KNOW " White smoke makes my food, that which I smoke 2 hours to 2 days in an NB Horizontal Offset and now MES 40, taste like it was smoked with Telephone Poles...

No JJ, I do not smoke for hours using White Smoke like I do using a lighter smoke.  You couldn't  have better described the problem of bitter taste for me, thanks.

Regarding your statement of using white smoke for short bursts of flavor...  

White smoke can contribute positively to the flavor and color of smoked foods and if not used correctly the results can be bitter rather than smoky.   I stress again smoke management and will give a couple examples of using a heavy smoke for flavor.

1.  Cold smoking poultry for 15 - 20 minutes prior to finishing  on a grill. 

2.  Placing a just cooked steak in a heavy cold smoke environment during the resting period for two to three minutes will add a tremendous amount of flavor.  

I agreed with you on smoke management. However, I am sure that fancy Smoke generator is not Cheap...Seems like a BIG investment to smoke 2 to 20 minutes or even an Hour because beyond that, any additional time pumping White Smoke into a small smoker, will create a flavor that will not be desirable for most.

Pumping White Smoke into a small smoker for an hour is way to long for anything I can think of.  As for expense, just think of the people who will spend a couple grand on a cook stove and use it to fry an egg.

Quote...As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ

Are you saying that I am suggesting members do something dangerous? "

How you came to the above conclusion is beyond me...What my point was/is, up to your statement there has been no mention of Yellow or Black smoke on any of the SMF forums. White Smoke threads, countless, are followed up with warnings that there is a problem with the Op's fire or technique and that without correction may result in a Creosote or undesirable flavors on the meat...

I don't understand why my question was beyond you.  I simply did not take the time to read the 219 pages on White Smoke.  A simple yes or no would have been sufficient.  Probably the reason no information can be found on yellow or black smoke is because no one smokes with it, but it does exist.

There has never been a disagreement that Smoke , Herbs , Spices, Marinades, etc...Are flavoring tools to be properly managed. My only and continued point is that Pumping Billowing White Smoke into a " Small Smoker " will give undesirable results. You chose to take the discussion further or prove me wrong or whatever with," White Smoke is useful if applied for a few minutes. " OK, I agree...But how many of our members smoke for a few minutes? The Forrest from the Tree is Thin Blue Smoke is the goal in most Smoking scenarios. All I wanted to know was if Navigators new toy could be adjusted to give TBS...JJ

Did I not state all along the importance in smoke management?  I do believe you have discovered the problem many have in using White Smoke which was my intent all along, not to prove you or any one else wrong.  I do believe you started the discussion in your # 15 post above.

In response to the analogy posted above. From the perspective of a pervious pipe smoker, your analogy simply does not make sense to me. First of all, I don't use woods with high amounts of tar, nicotine and other additives in it. Even when my pipes were smoked lightly, they still required constant cleaning because of the smoke and gases drawn through the stem.  The rest as they say simply went up in smoke.

If the wood we all use to smoke our foods can be so bad, we must be careful in it's use or we can expect the following.

Because of first and second hand smoke, grills and smokers will be banned or removed from our parks and recreational areas.

No use of grills within 500 feet of another household.

Hazardous warnings will be required on all smokers, grills and wood boxes. 

Failure to comply could result in fines or confiscations.

For those who would like more technical information on smoke density, PM me and I will pass my E-mail address on to you, then you can ask and I will pass the link on to you.

As Forest Gump would say " That's all I have to say on the matter ".

Keep in mind that sheep will follow their Shepard, even when he's lost. 

Tom

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Why not just post the link?


~Martin

 

[chef jimmyj]

For the benefit of anyone that has been following this thread and are either Confused or Laughing at the discussion, I offer the Following as I see it...

If you wish to get a lot of Smoke on an item that can only be smoked for less than 1 hour...or...you choose to smoke less than 1 hour and want intense smoke flavor, White Smoke is an option...

If you plan to Smoke longer than 1 hour find a method of making Thin Blue Smoke as White Smoke for extended periods will make your food taste Bitter. One of the fabulous TBS Generators offered by and designed for the exclusive generation of TBS for extended periods of time from... http://www.amazenproducts.com ...Is an excellent an affordable choice...

If you can afford it...High end Stoves make Great Eggs and expensive White Smoke Generators are available for the times you wish to smoke for only a couple of minutes...

If the Smoker you have is making White Smoke and you are not adding a few minutes of flavor to a resting Steak or Raw Chicken, the following link has 200 pages and some 5000 threads with recommendations on how to fix the problem and achieve Thin Blue Smoke...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=white+smoke

As I have only seen Yellow Smoke at burning Chemical Plants and Black Smoke at burning Tire Dumps, I defer to others to explain the usefulness of these types of smoke in flavoring meat, the flavor profile you can expect and how to properly generate such colored smoke...

If you Suck Too Hard on a Pipe it tastes like Billowing White Smoke, Nasty...

It is the part of the good Shepard to Shear his flock Not to Skin it...

Have a good day...JJ

 

[navigator]

ChefJimmyJ, as I stated in the first post it was the first time I fired it up. I  threw some pellets into it to see it make some smoke, I actually plan to use mostly wood chunks in it. I didn't think the 

What do you have to do to get that Billowy White Smoke to turn to some TBS?

 comment was very tactful, I really don't care if you don't like the generator but you don't have to keep stirring the pot on this thread, I thought as a moderator you were supposed to prevent that type of behavior?

For example If I didn't like stick burners I wouldn't go hijack others threads and say something like "what do you have to do to NOT over smoke all your food?"

There is a great article about  Barbeque Wood & Smoke out on the internet that is a very good read.
[h3] [/h3]

 

[mr t 59874]

Why not just post the link?


~Martin

Martin, My reason is that it is in another BBQ forum and I did not want to  promote it in this forum.  If some one gives me the permission, it will be done.

JJ, I was making myself clear about the color of smoke we were discussing.

 

[chef jimmyj]

ChefJimmyJ, as I stated in the first post it was the first time I fired it up. I  threw some pellets into it to see it make some smoke, I actually plan to use mostly wood chunks in it. I didn't think the 

 comment was very tactful, I really don't care if you don't like the generator but you don't have to keep stirring the pot on this thread, I thought as a moderator you were supposed to prevent that type of behavior?

For example If I didn't like stick burners I wouldn't go hijack others threads and say something like "what do you have to do to NOT over smoke all your food?"

There is a great article about  Barbeque Wood & Smoke out on the internet that is a very good read.
[h3] [/h3]

First off , what about my question was offensive to you? There is what looks like a dial on that generator and I asked a simple Question!...What do you have to do to get the Billowy White Smoke to turn to some TBS?  It may be a Great Generator but regardless of my feeling, it is useless if all it does is blow White Smoke. So by asking that, Mr.T thinks I need to be shown the value of White Smoke, with the bottom line being it's good for a Few Minutes!?! I simply responded and if Mr.T or anyone wished to continue, providing examples to make his point, there are no rules against continued Discussion, Disagreement or Debate, with the exception of no Cursing, no Rude Arguing and no Disparaging comments about another member Post, Education, Abilities or Intent... None of that occurred from either one of us! Additionally the thread is on Smoke Generators specifically that model and its ability go generate smoke. How is it a Hijack to discuss the type of smoke it makes, if it is adjustable and if not, it's limitation? As far as my status as a Moderator I am under no obligation to Not Comment or Defend myself or opinions just because it may lead to further discussion. I only responded and in no insulting way to anything here...Now I will drop out as to not stir the pot further...JJ

 

[navigator]

If you can afford it...High end Stoves make Great Eggs and expensive White Smoke Generators are available for the times you wish to smoke for only a couple of minutes...

I get it you hate smoke that isn't thin and blue and expensive stoves and smoke generators :)

 

[chef jimmyj]

Oh yeah...Tongue in Cheek comments are allowed too...

...Guys, I don't want hurt feelings just clarity. The more detailed info we provide on a piece of equipment or procedure the better off all who come here are...JJ

 

[mr t 59874]

Oh yeah...Tongue in Cheek comments are allowed too...

...Guys, I don't want hurt feelings just clarity. The more detailed info we provide on a piece of equipment or procedure the better off all who come here are...JJ

Navigator, I would love to use your new generator on my 22cf, cold smoker.  I can see where it could be used for an extended smoke that would be beneficial when smoking  my hams or rotating large amounts of other product.

My take on the smoke discussion is that members can glean what they want from two entirely different viewpoints.  The ones that benefit the most are the younger cooks as they can learn more in a few days from forums like this and the net than what I learned in decades of trial and error.  I hate to even think of the time, effort and money spent learning what I know today much of what was through trial and error. There have been many times that something is learned and I slap myself on the head and say, "Why didn't I think of that".  Think of it this way, the money you save could be spent improving your equipment. (Well it might be worth a try anyway).

I don't pretend to know all there is to know about smoking foods, but am willing to share what is known while still able to do so and I believe, that is the purpose of this forum.  Sometimes one can take the lack of knowledge of others for granted and then realize that they have no idea what you are talking about, causing confusion.  

All in all, it's my opinion that a good discussion is healthy to a forum as it makes the gears turn in our heads.

Tom

 

[navigator]

I agree 100% I just think more people would like things toned down, I know when threads start going south I normally quit reading them. It's not always the question but how its presented that makes all the difference.

OK I am over it and back on track, No hard feelings, Chef JimmyJ, I'm sorry I got out of line when my feathers were ruffled.

My next test will be with some apple chunks and pellets mixed and burning it from the bottom. It would be nice to have a day where its above freezing to test too :)

I think I can even turn the blower off as long as I make a way for it to draw a little air on the bottom.

Price wise these are not bad its the shipping, I got the biggest one of the 3 sizes and the water cooler for $150 but the shipping was $130 but he will deal a a little :) It was here in 10 days or so.

You can find him here or on eBay, I think the overseas purchases are much safer through eBay and PayPal.

 

[jfoshee]

How is the water cooled smoker working out? I was thinking of ordering one? Any problems cleaning it or keeping it going?

 

[jusjimi]

Thanks for the link