smoking a top rump tomorrow...ideas needed please!

Discussion in 'UK Smokers' started by irishkamadoguy, May 29, 2015.

  1. Thanks Danny,

    I usually do hang around, I guess I have been lucky with a couple of smoked that I left overnight and thought I had it all nailed.
    Demosthenes...Think the low and slow verses higher temp smoking can be a circuital conversation. The main advantage I can see with low and slow is a greater amount of smoking time...some day you need moisture too get the smoke into the meat though, so finding the balance of moisture over time, which then dries to leave bark is the reason this is going to be a life time of learning!

    Happy smoking

    Justin
     
  2. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    It could well have been the meat but I think it was probably more that it was pure lump of lean muscle. It got up to temperature over about 7 hours but it just solidified and was like carving leather. I will try it again sometime but I have never had a problem hot roasting these cuts of meat in the smoker though.
     
  3. demosthenes9

    demosthenes9 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Wade, I wasn't trying to say that hot roasting is wrong.  More than 1 way to skin a cat and all that.   Just saying that low and slow wasn't the culprit.
     
  4. Hello.  Well I have to agree with both options.  To a degree.  WELL MAKE UP YOUR MIND YOU WISHY- WASHY WIMP!  [​IMG]   I don't think low and slow CAUSED it to be tough.  The IT did that. I think you could have done it low and slow and probably ended up with a good final product.   What would I have done?  Rump equals round.  Well British beef joints like that have ZERO fat and almost no marbling.  Top round actually has more fat on it than top rump IF you can believe that.  SO! how would I cook that British beef joint versus how I would cook the U.S. equivalent?  Actually I would not chose either to smoke.  Just my opinion.  I would chose hot and fast probably for both.  I would be looking for 300-375 temp and take it to an IT of 125-130 TOPS.  Rest it 1 hour and should reach IT of about 130-135.  No fat or connective tissue to break done.  There are personal choices as to why I would chose not to smoke either which have no bearing on the method to smoke it properly.  And by properly I mean the way I would want that beef joint to turn out.  IT of final product should be 125-130 after resting; my opinion.  BUT many folks don't like rare meat.  The rarer the beef the tougher it is depending on the cut.  So there ya go.  Chasing your tail in circles.  Try it several ways and find what you like.  THAT then becomes the correct way.  Keep Smokin!

    Danny
     
  5. demosthenes9

    demosthenes9 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    KC, I do top and bottom rounds like you would find at a carver station at a brunch buffet.    I cook them at 225ish and take then to 127ish IT then tent under some foil to rest for about 30 mins.    Comes out nice, tender and juicy.  Give it a shot next time.  

    BTW, should add that I'm not normally a "low and slow" advocate.  For things like brisket, butts and ribs, I prefer to run at 275 or more.   But for Prime Rib, top, bottom or eye of round, or Sirloin Tip, low and slow is the way to go in my book. 
     
  6. Hello Demo.  I am quite familiar that you don't always follow the "party line"  Good for you.  As I am sure you are aware neither do I.  I meant no disrespect as I do like most of your methods and ideas.  Not by any means saying your way is "wrong".  I know your way is also right.  We are just giving two methods to achieve the same product.  Other than brisket, butts, ribs and prime rib I just chose not to smoke those cuts.  It is just a personal choice.  In fact I do not buy those other cuts to roast, slow or fast.  Yes I know it sounds silly and I MAY be missing some good beef but it goes back to a personal choice.  I wasn't going to go in to detail but: Not that my experience with these cuts have been bad smoking wise.  I can get them rare.  I can get them tender-ish.  I can get them juicy.  I just don't care for the cut of meat.  I know you have read my posts.  You know I am in to salt and pepper, no rubs and no sauce.  So with these cuts of beef you need a rub and or at least a good Au Jus for the slices.  ZERO fat so ya gotta put flavour in there somewhere.  And then you must slice thin.  Why, because rare those cuts can be tough.  Well for me, if I gotta cover my smoked meat in rub and or sauce to hide the fact that there is no flavour I am not interested.  If I am grilling a steak give me an EXCELLENT ribeye.  Salt and pepper and smoke.  If I am making chicken fried steak then of course ya gotta have gravy!  Give me a good U.S. style packer brisket and allow me to smoke it or braise it in the oven.  Can't be beat.  Unless you are talking prime rib, but that is a duck of a different colour!  Told you it sounded silly and was personal choice.  BUT!  All this smoking should be done by personal choice.  There are WRONG ways but there is not one right way.  Just my opinions and who tha he** am I??  Keep Smokin!

    Danny
     
  7. demosthenes9

    demosthenes9 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Hey Danny.  It's all good.  Like you, I'm a salt and pepper guy as well when it comes to beef.   Perhaps maybe some onion power and garlic powder thrown in as well.   That's it.  Slather on some olive or canola oil, season liberally with SPOG and off you go.

    My only contention in this thread is that I disagreed with Wade when he said he believe that "low and slow" made the meat tough.  That's it.   I smoke quite a bit of Top, bottom and eye of round and haven't found that to be the case.  Inf fact, I've found it to be the opposite.  While higher heat cooking makes for a tasty, yet somewhat chewy top/bottom round roast, cooking low and slow produces a more tender product.

    Scientifically, it has to do with calpains and cathepsins:

    http://www.edinformatics.com/math_science/science_of_cooking/slow_cooking.htm
    High heat cooking moves the meat through the 105 to 122 range faster while cooking at low heat keeps the meat in that range longer, making for a more tender piece of meat.

    As for "sliced thin", when I cook a top/bottom round for carving, I slice it at about 1/4 inch against the grain, about the same as I do brisket and can be served with or without au jus.  It's just downright tasty.  Not as tender as Prime Rib of course, but far from being tough.

    If you happen to see a round roast in the discount bin at your butcher's, grab it and give it a shot.   Smoke it at somewhere between 180-225, the lower the better.
     
  8. Thanks Demo.  Will give 'er a try.

    Danny
     
  9. kiska95

    kiska95 Smoking Fanatic

    Wait till i tell my mother whats happening to her sunday roast! A veritable steven hawkins moment! Lol!
    .
     
  10. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Next weekend another blind trial. I will get two more Rump joints and cook them both at different temperatures. One in the Davy Crockett a 225 and the other in the Weber at 350. I will then get some friends (any volunteers?) to blind taste and see if they can tell the difference and which they prefer. Just in case I get a repetition of last time I will also get the chain saw sharpened [​IMG]
     
  11. Great stuff guys,

    Really impressive input all round. I look forward to the next smoking adventure to share and discuss further.

    Happy smoking

    Justin
     
  12. demosthenes9

    demosthenes9 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    That's a splendid idea.  I like your style Wade.  The one draw back to the low and slow is that the meat will lack a crispy crust.   If you want, this can be remedied by pulling the meat about 5-10 degrees sooner (117-120F) from the Crockett and rolling it around on the Weber for a couple of minutes for a nice reverse sear.

    At any rate, I'm looking forward to the results of the test.  Hopefully, there will be no Crow in my future.  [​IMG]  
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  13. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I can also sear it at the end on the Crockett by using the App to turn up the temp and by opening the bottom grate. Oh how I do love technology [​IMG]
     
  14. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    For consistency, what IT would you like me to cook it to. Please don't say you want it "well done" or I may have to shoot you LOL. I will probably aim for Medium Rare.
     
  15. NOW BOYS!  Put your smokers away and play nice.  [​IMG]

    I have not tried Demos method but he does produce some fine looking meat.  On the other hand, as most folks know I smoke meats at higher temps than most others.  I ain't got no dog in this fight but personally I am not totally convinced that low and slow caused it to be tough.  I do GET your thought Wade.  The lack of fat and connective tissue in the cut causes the meat to dry out and what little moisture in the cut to drain from the meat during the low and slow process.  Thus with you rest it which would allow the juices to redistribute and allow the meat to relax; just aint gonna happen. I think to make it a fair test; an IT should be agreed upon. + - how many degrees and the same time rest period of x?  Interesting test Wade.  Look forward to the results!  Keep Smokin!

    Danny
     
  16. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Hi Danny. I am just going from my own experience with the Rump. You know me, I really just want to get at the facts - and it may have been an unfortunate chunk of Rump that would have been tough no matter how it was cooked. I am totally up for giving it another go though - but under more controlled conditions this time. Like Demo says - it should not matter how it gets up to temperature - it should be no different to cooking it sous vide. But maybe the smoke had an unexpected effect on the meat structure or maybe it just simply dried out. Hopefully this will help us to find out more [​IMG]
     
  17. please/30#post_1386351"]Hi Danny. I am just going from my own experience with the Rump. You know me, I really just want to get at the facts - and it may have been an unfortunate chunk of Rump that would have been tough no matter how it was cooked. I am totally up for giving it another go though - but under more controlled conditions this time. Like Demo says - it should not matter how it gets up to temperature - it should be no different to cooking it sous vide. But maybe the smoke had an unexpected effect on the meat structure or maybe it just simply dried out. Hopefully this will help us to find out more Thumbs Up
    [/quote]

    Just to throw my two pence worth in here...Just finished the last of the 'over cooked' rump today in a sandwich and it was bloody marvellous. Not sure where people have a problem with this chit as even by over cooking the shit out of it the meat was still tender and very edible.

    Now,i smoked it on a kamado ceramic grill which I believe has an advantage in keeping the meat more moist. Maybe I need to run a test also Wade, see if i can cook it properly this time and we can compare Q-views?
     
  18. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    We are so close we could almost try smoking them together and then enjoy the fruits of a days smoking with some beer [​IMG]
     
  19. WOO HOO!  Duelling taste comparisons!  Now we are in HIGH cotton boys!  ( American phrase )  Glad you guys are putting the U.K. Group on the map.  Take nothing for granted.  I look forward to the results.  Keep Smokin!

    Danny
     
  20. demosthenes9

    demosthenes9 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Oh wow, that's sweet!  Pull the roast off, hit the App and crank the Crockett up and start rolling.     I'd love to have that capability.  When I do a reverse sear, I have to fire up my Weber Gasser and use it to get the nice crust.
    Being a Yank, I'd go for the rare side of mid rare.  I normally pull meats around 127ish and hope they carry over to about 132-135ish.    Is that legal over there ?  If they see it on the CCTV, will the Ministry of Health dispatch an officer to protect you from eating something so dangerous ?  [​IMG][​IMG]
     

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