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Question about binders

sausage joe

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I normally use soy protein concentrate for binder. I am thinking about trying this. It claims to be a blend of instantized sodium phosphates. This product is also called hunter’s special meat binder.  Has anyone tried this or have any opinion about this product. It can be found here, http://www.butcher-packer.com/index...id=895&zenid=05d7bacb654371e753258d3c182b92c8

Special meat binder (1lb)

$5.85

Here is a product which can eliminate the need for any other form of meat binder. Soy protein concentrate, milk powder, whey, starches, and gums are all binders which are used to retain water which makes you think you are getting more. These binders are ineffective for the most part of holding water and the natural juices which are in the meat at temperatures in excess of 165°F. In the meat industry these products are known as fillers and are basically used in cheaper meat formulas. To use the Natural Protein in the meat is the only way to make a wholesome product, and our Special Meat Binder is especially formulated to do just that. Just use 2 oz in 25 pounds of meat instead of soy protein concentrate or any other binder and enjoy a moist and tastier product.

sausage joe
 

DanMcG

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I use the super phosphate from B&P but I know BigGuy here uses the Special Meat Binder and if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. He makes excellent sausages
 

westby

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I'll hijack this post a bit if you don't mind and ask this question.  Are binders necessary or beneficial? We have never used them, but I know of a lot of guys that do.
 

DanMcG

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  Are binders necessary or beneficial? We have never used them, but I know of a lot of guys that do.
Not necessary but they really work in extracting the meat proteins which aids in holding extra water and fats while cooking making it a more juicier  product.

I don't use them in everything but something like a hot dog wouldn't be the same with out it.

Just my 2 cents
 
 

sausage joe

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Dan McG

how would you compare this binder to soy protein concentrate
 
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DanMcG

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Let me say that I'm just a novice at this sausage game, but I enjoy the science of making sausage. That being said, I have yet to tell the difference, they both do the job. The phosphates are suppose to be the best when it comes to binding, but to be honest most of my recipes are tweaked from already proven recipes from others and if it calls for one or the other , that's what I use.  I guess if they are used right , you won't know they're there.
 
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mballi3011

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I thought that you can subistute dried milk powder for the soy proteins stuff. I'm a hobbiest at this thing too.
 

DanMcG

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I thought that you can subistute dried milk powder for the soy proteins stuff. I'm a hobbiest at this thing too.
Yeap you're right Mark, I use it in many of my recipes.
 
 

grwolff

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I have infrequently been making sausages for years, using different binders, none of which has produced the desired results. A professional German sausage maker, Opa Jochim, has a number of posts on youtube for all kinds of sausages. Interestingly, I have not seen him use a binder on any. However, there is a protical for each that he invariably follows. He separately grinds (1) the lean meat first, (2) the pork belly second, and (3) the fat back last. Each of the total weight of each of his recipes includes finely chipped ice of 15%. When he cuts the meat, he first cuts the lean meat with 1/3 of the ice, then adds and cuts the pork belly with 1/3 of the ice, and lastly adds the fat back to the mixture with 1/3 of the ice.
It is my impression that extracted protein and cold are significant factors in the binding process and more protein will come from the lean meat than the fat.
I saw from another German vider, for weiss wurst, that the emulsified temperature should not exceed 14 degrees C. Based on the foregoing, I called a supplier of sausage making materials and was told that temperature is not a facterin binding. But if you look at recipes, they invariably tell you to keep meat cold, even when stuffing but do not state that it may relate to binding
There is an explanation on Nathan's Sausage Supplies why phosphates are added to sausage--to increase moisture and taste. When I was a child, we always wanted Kielbasa whic to seeing that agh squirted juice when pricked with a fork. I look forward to experiencing that again.
 

Polka

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I think...temperature has to do with causing / preventing fat-smear, and other texture ailments in the processing. I know temps can ruin the sausage of too high, and / or too fast. All sausage is best when processes as cold as possible. Boudin and Jatrnice being the only exceptions (they used cooked meat in the mixture and then stuffed and cooked again).
 
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I don't want to be out of line here, but we've made everything from Homemade Weiners, to Bratwurst, Polish Sausage etc. and I don't recall any of the recipes that I or my Aunts & Uncles have from my Grandfather who came here from Hannover Germany used Binders. We've always Hand Mixed our Sausage Blends for a Minimum of 5 minutes. If done properly and long enough your hands are going to feel like blocks of ice, but I guarantee that the Sausage Blend is going to be Blended well enough that you can pick up the entire 5 lbs of Meat with one hand. We do 5 lbs at a time for Food Safety Reason. Especially since I have to do everything by myself now. The Ice Water mixed with the Seasonings to make a Slurry to blend in with the Ground Pork or Whatever Protein Combination you're working with will Bind everything together just fine.
 

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