Pork Butt and my "ham injection"... Pork butt is my new go-to ham... seriously good....

[thirdeye]

If you pasteurized it at 135 for a few hours, there no need for it to see a frying pan...
I eat them as-is...
But, It can take time for folks to eat very rare pork... and get used to it's texture... Took me awhile... Quite awhile...
Growing up in the 50's, mom burned most meat because trich was still a problem...

Following two cycles of cold smoking, I take my IT just over 145° when I use pork loin, and around 160° on a shoulder picnic or shoulder butt. We do eat a lot as-is like on a sandwich, or in a Chef's salad, but I also like a hot ham & cheese sandwich or wrap, and usually do warm it up for breakfast. My intent is not to cook it further....

What device are you using to maintain the 'few hours' at 135° pasteurization temps?

EDIT - I located this post below of yours from 2020. Have you revised the 'hour-ish' timeline to 'several hours' to insure pasteurization? I have two loin hams curing right now, I might experiment with the 135° using sous vide.

Smoke the ham and take to 135F in the smoker and hold for an hour ish by lowering the smoker temp to ~150F and closing down the exhaust to stop evaporative cooling effect... OR wrap it and place in your oven at it's lowest temperature so as to not overcook and dry out the meat ..
If you plan to pasteurize in the sous-vide, if you take the IT of the ham to 135F ish and hold it there for an hour, then slice into serving portions and vac-pack, and stick it in the sous-vide for an hour + at 135F ish, then cool in 50% ice water and start another batch of ham in the sous vide, repeat,......
The ham will be good in the refer for nearly 90 days if it is stored below 36.5F ..

The repeat temp and time in the sous vide is because you have contaminated the meat by handling, slicing, putting in bags etc.... Once in the vac-bag and pasteurized, you are golden...

 

[daveomak]

What device are you using to maintain the 'few hours' at 135° pasteurization temps?

EDIT - I located this post below of yours from 2020. Have you revised the 'hour-ish' timeline to 'several hours' to insure pasteurization? I have two loin hams curing right now, I might experiment with the 135° using sous vide.

I have a rheostat on my MES30 which regulates the wattage of it's heating element.. I can run a consistent temp in my smoker...

The time table for pasteurization does not include varying temperature zones in a smoker, mine especially... Hot zones, cool zones... internal meat temps not being equal... So, I exaggerate the holding times to try and ensure all areas of the meat will meet the pasteurization chart at one temp or another... I place the therm probe in the thickest part of the meat to try and be as diligent as possible to get a perfect reading but life gets in the way...

Using sous vide, you have no idea what the temp of the meat is... I can't use a therm in the meat in my sous vide...

Chicken, as an example, I sous vide in the middle 130's F and hold for 6 plus hours... The chicken comes out moist and tender... I won't take any chances getting salmonella poisoning...

 

[thirdeye]

I have a rheostat on my MES30 which regulates the wattage of it's heating element.. I can run a consistent temp in my smoker...

The time table for pasteurization does not include varying temperature zones in a smoker, mine especially... Hot zones, cool zones... internal meat temps not being equal... So, I exaggerate the holding times to try and ensure all areas of the meat will meet the pasteurization chart at one temp or another... I place the therm probe in the thickest part of the meat to try and be as diligent as possible to get a perfect reading but life gets in the way...

Using sous vide, you have no idea what the temp of the meat is... I can't use a therm in the meat in my sous vide...

Chicken, as an example, I sous vide in the middle 130's F and hold for 6 plus hours... The chicken comes out moist and tender... I won't take any chances getting salmonella poisoning...

Going back to the pasteurization of the pork loins that I would be smoking and/or finishing by sous vide - looking at the Baldwin Table 5.1, and assuming the loin is 65mm and using 135° bath temp.... the pasteurization time is 4.5 hours.

As far as meat temp in the sous vide pouch, we know the meat won't ever exceed the bath temperature, but we only have an educated guess as to how long it takes the meat to reach the bath temperature. Baldwin Table 2.1 tells us that if the pork loin is 41°, it will take 3 hours to reach 1° below bath temp. So for me... at the end of day 2 of cold smoke, and with an overnight rest, my loin will in the mid-30° range going into the sous vide the next day.

 

[daveomak]

 

[olecrosseyes]

Using sous vide, you have no idea what the temp of the meat is... I can't use a therm in the meat in my sous vide...

How is it you cannot use a probe in your Sous Verdi?
Open the top of the pouch and let the cord run up and over the vessel?

 

[DougE]

How is it you cannot use a probe in your Sous Verdi?
Open the top of the pouch and let the cord run up and over the vessel?

The bag you put the your meat in has to have all the air out of it so it stays under the water. Most temp probes I'm aware of can't be submerged in liquid, so it would be a real trick to get that to all work out.

 

[olecrosseyes]

The bag you put the your meat in has to have all the air out of it so it stays under the water. Most temp probes I'm aware of can't be submerged in liquid, so it would be a real trick to get that to all work out.

Stick the probe in the meat, put the meat in an opened freezer bag, set the bag in the water vessel and clip the top with a cloths pin up and over the top of the vessel. the water will push the air out of the bag. Is this not good enough??

 

[daveomak]

OK, I've gathered my thoughts...
Thickness plays a role in temperature penetration... I'm sure muscle types play a role also...
A full-size butt, is not only impractical but plays against rules... Strictly from a food safety point of view... "Are all sections of the butt heating at the same rate"...
The butt "should" be cut into pieces that allow for semi rapid, similar heating rates... If multiple smaller packages are introduced to the water bath, are they heating uniformly???
l don't expect folks to be as anal as I when it comes to food safety... I was employed at a quality assurance laboratory for 27 years... At ~74, living alone etc., I can't afford to make mistakes with my health... My ONLY avenue is to suggest the utmost safest direction, I'm aware of, to take where food safety is a concern and the members here are looking for advice... Whether they follow my advice is none of my business... If I gave advice that did not approach the highest standards available, I would be remiss...
I've re-read this blurb and there are some vacancies... It would take me a month to proof-read and edit this to something perfect... Therefore, anyone reading this must have a good understanding of thermal dynamics, search terms used to fill in your blanks, re-read Dr. Baldwins Sous-Vide explanation and use and fully understand it so you don't poison yourself...

 

[thirdeye]

OK, I've gathered my thoughts...
Thickness plays a role in temperature penetration... I'm sure muscle types play a role also...
A full-size butt, is not only impractical but plays against rules... Strictly from a food safety point of view... "Are all sections of the butt heating at the same rate"...
The butt "should" be cut into pieces that allow for semi rapid, similar heating rates... If multiple smaller packages are introduced to the water bath, are they heating uniformly???

I would tend to agree that smaller pieces would allow for pieces of meat to heat more evenly (or would be more predictable). Take this porkstrami ↑↑↑ that I made from a pork butt for example: I wanted more of the pastrami bark, so I removed the bone and sliced the butt into thirds. I corned it for 14 days. On smoking day I put each piece on a separate skewer and hung them in my drum.

Now I did NOT use a sous vide finish, but I was pleased with the final product, and once sliced it was impossible to tell I used small roasts instead of a whole butt.

 

[thirdeye]

I have two loin hams curing right now, I might experiment with the 135° using sous vide.

I have decided to do a sous vide finish on one of the loin hams I have ready to smoke. In fact I'm going to hold back the other loin a day or so in case I like the SV finish.

 

[DougE]

Stick the probe in the meat, put the meat in an opened freezer bag, set the bag in the water vessel and clip the top with a cloths pin up and over the top of the vessel. the water will push the air out of the bag. Is this not good enough??

I don't have an answer because I don't know if it would work or not.

 

[thirdeye]

The bag you put the your meat in has to have all the air out of it so it stays under the water. Most temp probes I'm aware of can't be submerged in liquid, so it would be a real trick to get that to all work out.

Stick the probe in the meat, put the meat in an opened freezer bag, set the bag in the water vessel and clip the top with a cloths pin up and over the top of the vessel.

A freezer 'zipper' bag will work better when using a temperature probe if you add some SV weights to the bag, then use the displacement method. These are 5 ounce weights.

 

[Fueling Around]

Stick the probe in the meat, put the meat in an opened freezer bag, set the bag in the water vessel and clip the top with a cloths pin up and over the top of the vessel. the water will push the air out of the bag. Is this not good enough??

A freezer 'zipper' bag will work better when using a temperature probe if you add some SV weights to the bag, then use the displacement method. These are 5 ounce weights.
View attachment 528113

I have never tried sous vide in food. Metal products, yes.
I know the objective is for fluid circulation to surround the product. Doesn't clipping to the side of the vessel defeat the circulation?

 

[daveomak]

FA, evening.... I believe you have hit on a very important point... SV is not a simple method of cooking food safely... There are, or can be, pitfalls that could interfere with a quality finished product...

 

[thirdeye]

I have never tried sous vide in food. Metal products, yes.
I know the objective is for fluid circulation to surround the product. Doesn't clipping to the side of the vessel defeat the circulation?

Not sure what you meant about "in food"? The circulators are somewhat powerful and the impeller is at the bottom, so they keep the water circulating and the bath at a very constant temp even when using zipper bags instead of submerging a vacuum sealed bag. I have a second circulator that can handle a 15 gallon water bath.

FA, evening.... I believe you have hit on a very important point... SV is not a simple method of cooking food safely... There are, or can be, pitfalls that could interfere with a quality finished product...

Stay tuned, I did some experimenting last evening with the time for my chicken thighs to reach water bath temp. I'll get some photos posted later today.

 

[zwiller]

FA, evening.... I believe you have hit on a very important point... SV is not a simple method of cooking food safely... There are, or can be, pitfalls that could interfere with a quality finished product...

+1; I thought I understood it well until I looked at the charts for how long it takes for the meat to reach within 1F of set temp. WAAAY longer than I ever thought.

I smoked a loin and immediately SV'd it and ended up nasty. Really foul oversmoke flavor. I think daveomak had similar with pressure cooked smoked stuff. I love SV but I tread lightly with smoked fare.

 

[thirdeye]

I have decided to do a sous vide finish on one of the loin hams I have ready to smoke. In fact I'm going to hold back the other loin a day or so in case I like the SV finish.

I smoked a loin and immediately SV'd it and ended up nasty. Really foul oversmoke flavor. I think daveomak daveomak had similar with pressure cooked smoked stuff. I love SV but I tread lightly with smoked fare.

I ran my idea of using SV on one of the loin roast I have smoking today by another friend and he didn't have the best results either. I found an older thread on the same subject where there were mixed results. Oh well, the weather is impacting my day today, so we'll see.

As far as pressure cooker (finish) goes.... I have used this finish for pastrami for many years. It works great. I have par-cooked meat in my smoker then canned it with good results too, but I want light on the smoke.

 

[thirdeye]

Using sous vide, you have no idea what the temp of the meat is... I can't use a therm in the meat in my sous vide...

+1; I thought I understood it well until I looked at the charts for how long it takes for the meat to reach within 1F of set temp. WAAAY longer than I ever thought.

Here are the results of my time/temperature experiment last evening. I used boneless thighs in a zipper bag and placed the temp probe in one of the center thighs. The SV temp was 160°F, and the chicken started off at 40°F. My planned cook time for boneless thighs is 2-hours @ 160°.

Before I knew it the chicken temp began to rise. In the first 16 minutes alone the chicken temp rose to109°.

At 30 minutes, the chicken temp was 140°.
At 54 minutes, the chicken temp was 155°.
--Then it hit a stall--
At 80 minutes, the chicken temp reached 159°. (The Baldwin Table 2.1 talks about time to reach 1° below bath temp).
At 103 minutes, the chicken temp finally hit 160°.


Going back to Baldwin Table 2.1 my temps corresponded to the times for a cylindrical shape in the 45mm-50mm range which is about right for a rolled thigh. Here they are out of the SV and re-seasoned before going into quesadillas.

 

[daveomak]

I don't remember the length of time I smoked salmon to pressure can it, but I think it was about 1/2 - 1 hour to get it edible...

 

[thirdeye]

I don't remember the length of time I smoked salmon to pressure can it, but I think it was about 1/2 - 1 hour to get it edible...

Yes, thanks for the reminder.... smoked salmon that is canned is more sensitive to smoke than other meats. I dry cure my fillets and cold smoke about 2 hours. It's a very good product.