POLL: why is this newbie a failure with 3-2-1 ribs... how?

[webpoppy8]

one slab of spare ribs (wrong?), 4.3 lbs

14 hours rub with Meathead's Memphis Dust, in zippered plastic bag

225º in Masterbuilt electric smoker

Mix of hickory and "whiskey" wood chips

The first 3-hour cooking went a little long (maybe 3-1/2) before I wrapped in foil.

I did not have good smoke the whole time.  I had a previous "over-smoked" incident and I decided to err on the side of caution.  All in all, probably only 2-1/2 hours of good smoke.

I used a very strongly spicy baste for the last hour.  ("Country Sweet," from Rochester NY, 1/2 mild, 1/2 hot). It's a viscous, medium thick sauce that is also extremely sweet.  I think it may have apricot in it.  It is not a regular dark-red tomato-isa sauce.  This sauce was a failbot.

Some parts were pretty good, those which were thickest.  

However I also had areas without rib bones that were as thin as 1/4"-3/8" and they were tough.

Most of the flavor was from the over-spicy baste, which also created not a nice bark but in fact left more of a skin 

The smokiness was judged good by the peanut gallery, but I would have liked more.

I felt much of the meat tasted bland, almost as if boiled. (gasp!). It was a little dry.

Photos attached.

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[tralarge]

I like to let my ribs sit over night in the fridge with my rub on it... the rub has a little of everything in it... you need something to help the flavors penetrate the meat, I start with a bit of yellow mustard and then rubbed the ribs down with my spice mix.

 

[gr0uch0]

Can't speak to the first few items on your punchlist, as they all sound kosher to me--225*, spares are fine, overnight in rub, etc.  Looks like not enough smoke, but the primary culprit to me is the sauce.  This is another reason to smoke without, and allow the guests to add sauce as they see fit.  It can be overwhelming, can block smoke flow, can actually insulate in some cases, but the biggest reason in my book?  Most have high sugar/corn syrup content which burns very quickly at not very high temps.

First, it wasn't a fail--chalk it up to a learning experience.  I'd recommend trying them without sauce and without the foil thing next go-round, and see what results you get then.  Use toothpicks to see how easily the probe penetrates the meat:  when done, they should slide fairly easily in and out.  Also use a thermometer to check them from time to time:  I saw no mention of one in your OP.  If you feel a need to baste/mop them, use something absent a high sweetening content, as I think that's where this one got away from you. 

 

[geezer]

Well, flavor wise I'm not familiar enough with your rub and basting sauce to really comment. As far as smoke flavor goes...........how much wood did you use?

3.5 hours for the first phase was probably a bit long, especially for the seemingly thin portion. 1/4" really? Dang, I'd of trimmed that off most likely. 

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with spare ribs, but that doesn't mean every rack of them sold will cook up to perfection. Plus it sounds like you might have over cooked them just a tad. It happens.

I'm sure your next cook will be far better. 

 

[gr0uch0]

 
Well, flavor wise I'm not familiar enough with your rub and basting sauce to really comment. As far as smoke flavor goes...........how much wood did you use?

3.5 hours for the first phase was probably a bit long, especially for the seemingly thin portion. 1/4" really? Dang, I'd of trimmed that off most likely. 

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with spare ribs, but that doesn't mean every rack of them sold will cook up to perfection. Plus it sounds like you might have over cooked them just a tad. It happens.

I'm sure your next cook will be far better. 

Now that Geezer mentioned it, I searched the rub that you used, webpoppy.  Not that I'm a fan of that website nor its proprietor (really hard to take Archie Bunker's son-in-law seriously), but it's a Memphis style dry rub.  Means just that:  dry.  No sauce.  This type of rub is straight out of the bowels of Rendevous, with no sauce whatsoever.  Now that I've revisited this, it reconfirms my original thoughts about skipping the sauce.

 

[tralarge]

Also looked at the site, his Memphis rub has zero salt, not going to do much for the marinading then. This rub requires the user to start with a layer of salt.

 

[sauced]

I agree with what everybody has said. Another question...when you foiled did you add any butter, liquid? Me, I never put bbq sauce on the ribs until they are done cooking and then it is up to each person how much if any sauce they want. Not a failure by far....just keep fine tuning!!

 

[Bearcarver]

Here's my Pork Spares Step by Step.

Click:

Pork Spare Ribs

Hope it helps,

Bear

 

[foamheart]

First, 3/2/1 is only a guideline. If its snowing and sletting outside it doesn't work too well. If its 120 degrees in the shade not so good either. You have to evaluate your enviroment when cooking.

A MES is NOT made for basting, mopping, spritzing, etc etc....... Its an electric and not a firebreather. No liquid is required, but you need to leave the door closed. Everytime you open the door on a fire breather you let out valuable moisture so you mop, spritz, baste, etc to return the fluid to the meat. Or add a water pan if your pit doesn't seal well. BUt after you do so and close it up due to the higher cooking temp it regains its cooking temp in just a few mins. 

An electric does not. You don't lose moisture if you keep the door shut. Everytime you open the door on an MES its usually estimated a 15 min recovery time. So if you only baste once and hour on a 3/2/1, well 15 x 6 means you've lost an hour and a half of heat and a load of moisture.

Also, I know you said it wasn't smokey enough for you, The prime time for applying smoke, when the meat will most accept the smoke, when the pores are open and receptive is from about 90 to 150 degrees IT (internal temp). Sure it still smokes above and below those numbers but the meat is accepting it at a diminished capacity.

If you are using the 3/2/1 method on ribs you only need smoke for the first three, actually the second two hours of that first three. Try using no sauce and see how it tastes.

Rub the ribs wrap in plastic wrap and leave in the fridge over night. Just before throwing on the pit rub with light brown sugar. It will liquidfy, they when in the heat it will tighten up and caramelize and finally crystalize. It is like an M&M , hard candy shell melts in your mouth and not in your hand. Actually it helps hold those delicious juices in.  

Then try a less spicy sauce, or I now much prefer a glaze on smoked foods. BBQ sauce is for BBQ'd foods or grilled foods, not so much smoked IMHO. Smoking is a lower slower cook that BBQ.

Leave that door closed, except for foiling, and that last hour if you want to sauce, then is when you do it. 

I normally put a bowl of heated BBQ sauce or glaze next the the plate of ribs so folks can add to their taste.

You can try all or some of these. I have been doing it awhile and I realize that there is no one way, only the way you like today. Good luck and enjoy all the good grub you'll get while looking for your favorite, then you start trying other folks favorites....LOL  Its a great life if ya just don't weaken.

 

[DanMcG]

I think ya did darn good for a newbie. When I use sauce, which is rare nowadays I'll do it at the very end of the smoke, and let it caramelize a bit, because thats the way I like it.
But most of the time I just add a simple spice rub and let the smoke do most of the flavoring.
I'd also suggest looking up how to trim the full rack into a Saint Louis style rib. You'll trim it so it's a uniform shape and thickness, but the best part is those thin sections of rib that dried out on you, will be cooked to perfection while you're still tending the smoker. That's the cooks snack, or save it and add it to another meal for a great smokey flavor.

 

[Bearcarver]

 
First, 3/2/1 is only a guideline. If its snowing and sletting outside it doesn't work too well. If its 120 degrees in the shade not so good either. You have to evaluate your enviroment when cooking.

A MES is NOT made for basting, mopping, spritzing, etc etc....... Its an electric and not a firebreather. No liquid is required, but you need to leave the door closed. Everytime you open the door on a fire breather you let out valuable moisture so you mop, spritz, baste, etc to return the fluid to the meat. Or add a water pan if your pit doesn't seal well. BUt after you do so and close it up due to the higher cooking temp it regains its cooking temp in just a few mins. 

An electric does not. You don't lose moisture if you keep the door shut. Everytime you open the door on an MES its usually estimated a 15 min recovery time. So if you only baste once and hour on a 3/2/1, well 15 x 6 means you've lost an hour and a half of heat and a load of moisture.

Also, I know you said it wasn't smokey enough for you, The prime time for applying smoke, when the meat will most accept the smoke, when the pores are open and receptive is from about 90 to 150 degrees IT (internal temp). Sure it still smokes above and below those numbers but the meat is accepting it at a diminished capacity.

If you are using the 3/2/1 method on ribs you only need smoke for the first three, actually the second two hours of that first three. Try using no sauce and see how it tastes.

Rub the ribs wrap in plastic wrap and leave in the fridge over night. Just before throwing on the pit rub with light brown sugar. It will liquidfy, they when in the heat it will tighten up and caramelize and finally crystalize. It is like an M&M , hard candy shell melts in your mouth and not in your hand. Actually it helps hold those delicious juices in.  

Then try a less spicy sauce, or I now much prefer a glaze on smoked foods. BBQ sauce is for BBQ'd foods or grilled foods, not so much smoked IMHO. Smoking is a lower slower cook that BBQ.

Leave that door closed, except for foiling, and that last hour if you want to sauce, then is when you do it. 

I normally put a bowl of heated BBQ sauce or glaze next the the plate of ribs so folks can add to their taste.

You can try all or some of these. I have been doing it awhile and I realize that there is no one way, only the way you like today. Good luck and enjoy all the good grub you'll get while looking for your favorite, then you start trying other folks favorites....LOL  Its a great life if ya just don't weaken.

This whole Post, by Foamy is excellent !!

All Great Tips!!

Bear

 

[webpoppy8]

No butter or liquid.  Mistake?

 

[gr0uch0]

 
No butter or liquid.  Mistake?

Really, poppy?  You've got paragraphs upon paragraphs of information above at your disposal, and all you could glean from it was five words, and summarized into "butter or liquid"?  To quote Cris Carter, "C'mon, man."

Please go back and re-read everything, especially Foamy's well-scripted note and Bear's link, and don't look for the Cliff Note's version--life isn't a shortcut.  We're here to help, but you've got to help yourself first, brother.

 

[geezer]

No butter or liquid.  Mistake?

I don't use butter on ribs personally, but when I foil them I like to add about an eighth of a cup of apple juice inside the packet.

 

[foamheart]

The foil time is to tenderize the meat, sort of like a pressure cooker. I have used lots of different fluids. My personal favorite is a little honey, apple cider vinegar, and maybe some apple cider. These are the tastes that will infuse within the meat during the foiling period.  Spices take much longer to infuse. And don't go over board, its a hermetically sealed cooking container ( LOL the foil holds the moisture), You only need enough for a small amount of steam, not to boil the meat.

If you hit an IT, there is no bad meal. Lots you'd like to readjust, but all safe to eat. If first starting out, I most highly recommend that you keep records. Ask the bride to get you a small composition book, right like when you were in school. Keep it up, cooked meat, time temp, smoke, weather, variables like sauce, etc. Its like a smokers sniper's kill book I'll give you a link to check out below. Then when done, write down what you'd like to change and the reason for the next smoke.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/attachments/3

Good luck and enjoy all that good smoke.

 

[webpoppy8]

I'm squeezing this in between catfights at my university department and my kids dressing up for an expo... I'll look more closely now.

 

[webpoppy8]

thanks for the encouragement!

 

[webpoppy8]

I think that's an important point... as usual, I'm rushing too much

 

[frankly]

Lots of good advice there, so I won't try to add to that.  BUT, being a Rochester native your choice of sauce caught my eye.  Did you use the goldish colored sauce?  Looking online I see they have a brown BBQ sauce, but I have never tried that.  The goldish sauce I've used for chicken as an after sauce, but can't imagine it on ribs...

 

[webpoppy8]

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• webpoppy8
• Mar 11, 2017

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• webpoppy8
• Mar 11, 2017

Hey @Frankly!

I developed a love for Country Sweet Chicken and Ribs while I was growing up NNN (;) years ago.  We have brought back to Massachusetts sauce by the gallon as well as the smaller bottles.  I didn't know about a regular brown barbecue sauce, this is strictly the regular sauce (hot and mild).

They definitely put that orange sauce on ribs, yessir!

I've never duplicated the wonderful flavor I loved in my youth, and I wonder whether it's some special way they cook the chicken and ribs, or whether my memory grew rosier and rosier as I got older and older...  That slightly soupy macaroni salad was absolutely perfect.  I definitely remember using the bread to sop up and eat the rest of the sauce.

That said, our last visit, in a different location than either of their other two places, was a little disappointing.

Anyway you know the sauce - what do you think about doing the last hour with Country Sweet on?

- Andrew