Non fat dried milk

[hog warden]

For those of you who add dried milk as a binder, who uses the stuff from the grocery store vs. the high temp stuff from places like Sausage Maker?

Does it work the same? Granual size is different, but that can be mitigated if you mix it along with spices and cure with the extra water. It will be disolved.

 

[chopsaw]

For those of you who add dried milk as a binder, who uses the stuff from the grocery store vs. the high temp stuff from places like Sausage Maker?

I use both , but have since switched to using potato starch more .

Does it work the same?

My opinion yes . Never had issues with either one , but I buy the Carnation brand . It's a fine powder . Might be high heat . I'm not sure .

Granual size is different, but that can be mitigated if you mix it along with spices and cure with the extra water.

If you have a spice grinder , you could spin it up into a finer powder .

I've used NFDM from TSM
Powder milk for the grocery
Soy protein concentrate
Soy protein Isolate
Potato starch
Fermento
SACO buttermilk powder
All about the same to me . Different amounts needed to do the job .
To much of some of those can impart taste .

So if off the shelf milk powder is what you have go for it . See if they have the Carnation brand . I would use that over the other stuff .
My opinion . You'll get others .

 

[HowlingDog]

I have only used the NFDM from the Sausage Maker and was pleased with the results. I looked at grocery store brands but figured that since I was trying to make sausage and I had Sausage Maker spices, casings, and mixes, might as well add the NFDM to the order and get free shipping (whenever it was I bought it).

 

[indaswamp]

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Store bought. I grind it fine, never had problem

 

[chopsaw]

I completely disagreed with that video the first time I saw it , and still do .

NFDM to the order and get free shipping (whenever it was I bought it).

It goes bad , so be careful that doesn't catch up to you , like it did me .
The real old stuff won't have a date , the newer stuff will be marked .
If it's expired toss it . Might still be OK , until it isn't . Took me 2 batches to figure that out .
Nasty taste in the smoked sausage only ,, So I asked myself what was different . Came up with the NFDM . Changed that , no more trouble .

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

I've used the store bought and I've used the high temp. I honestly have no idea if the high temp is better. I've never done a side by side. Maybe I've bought into some marketing hype but my thinking is that the regular stuff works but the high temp works better. I've also used c-bind and gotten good results. I think if you don't have the high temp, the regular stuff is still worth using. I had a marked improvement in my sausage when I started using just the regular NFDM. The problem with sausage making is that you improve so much just sausage batch to sausage batch that it's sometimes hard to tell what made the difference. I'm so much better than when I've started and I've probably still got really far to go.

 

[GatorAGR]

I've used the store bought and I've used the high temp. I honestly have no idea if the high temp is better. I've never done a side by side. Maybe I've bought into some marketing hype but my thinking is that the regular stuff works but the high temp works better. I've also used c-bind and gotten good results. I think if you don't have the high temp, the regular stuff is still worth using. I had a marked improvement in my sausage when I started using just the regular NFDM. The problem with sausage making is that you improve so much just sausage batch to sausage batch that it's sometimes hard to tell what made the difference. I'm so much better than when I've started and I've probably still got really far to go.

I'm new to sausage making. Interested in what specifically do you feel you've improved at? My first batch came out really good though I can improve on my casing technique. Other than that, I'm not sure what would have made them better. Interested in your thoughts and experience.

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

There's certain things I didn't buy into like chilling the meat in between steps that I now do. I started out using the Kitchenaid so getting dedicated stuffer was an immediate big improvement. I've figured out what level of salt I like and how to tweak sausage formulas to my liking. I learned about binders. How I cook sausage has improved the final product. Casing and linking are things that just require repetition. With sausage it seems like there are a lot of steps that you can get away with skipping like keeping the temp of the meat down. You get away with it until one day you don't. Mixing seems to take some time to learn. Part of my problem is I'm very casual at this so I make 4 to 6 small batches a year probably. My first sausage tasted great but its nowhere near where it is now and I've found this forum a tremendous resource.

 

[GatorAGR]

There's certain things I didn't buy into like chilling the meat in between steps that I now do. I started out using the Kitchenaid so getting dedicated stuffer was an immediate big improvement. I've figured out what level of salt I like and how to tweak sausage formulas to my liking. I learned about binders. How I cook sausage has improved the final product. Casing and linking are things that just require repetition. With sausage it seems like there are a lot of steps that you can get away with skipping like keeping the temp of the meat down. You get away with it until one day you don't. Mixing seems to take some time to learn. Part of my problem is I'm very casual at this so I make 4 to 6 small batches a year probably. My first sausage tasted great but its nowhere near where it is now and I've found this forum a tremendous resource.

Thanks. Good insight. I kept it simple so far…bou GB t ground meat from butcher, used Chudds starter mix. I wanted to limit my variables to start with. I’ll add difficulty as I go. I also will only be making a few small batches per year.

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

Chud's channel is tremendous. Two Guys and Cooler is great. Back when I was trying to make hot guts the first time all I had to go from was a Texas Monthly interview with Evan Leroy from a long time ago where he talked about sausage ratios. That opened up a whole world for me. Now that information is pretty readily available.

 

[zwiller]

Not used every binder out there but STPP seems to work more noticeably (faster maybe?) to me than others. Also NFDM definitely has a slight flavor and color impact. Could work for you or against you depending what you run. I tend to use STPP with beef stuff like SS and NFDM on pork stuff like brats. Will probably not pick any more up when I run out and will either simply use egg or cream. Want to try potato starch. I tried buttermilk powder from Amish country and Fermento and both are NOT a good sub for a ferment IMO but decent binders. On the actual question of high temp vs low temp NFDM I bet it's something not really noticeable on the hobby scale. I've done CRAZY experiments with TVP and it kinda spooked me for how much water it retains and how good it tasted. You are entering the lab meat world with that stuff. Also heard soy was test killer so ditched it.

 

[hog warden]

My reason for asking about store bought (low temp) vs. high temp from places like Sausage maker........the video by 2 guys & cooler (cajuneric here) is the only place I've seen the distinction made in detail. None of the books and none of the online videos from the "experts" even mention there is a difference. I'd think 99% of those trying it would not be aware there is a difference and are using the low temp by default because they can buy it local and are not aware there is a difference. In one "expert" video the guy was using great value powdered milk from Walmart. Looked like it worked for him. Perhaps most commercial made products using milk use the high temp but don't say so.

Trying to get to the bottom of another confusing issue. If the high temp version matters, then all books and recipes ought to say so......and why.

 

[02ebz06]

The thing about on-line videos is they will say "this product" is better than "that product".
And they will give you a link to where you can buy the product with a code imbedded in the link so they make money.
Basically they are salesmen for the product, so you have to take that into consideration.

Same for product evaluations.
Most times you don't know if the product was given to them to evaluate or they were paid to evaluate.

You have to do your own evaluation of their recommendation or evaluation.

 

[chopsaw]

. In one "expert" video

Exactly . Never was an issue or conversation until lately .
Doesn't need to be anymore complicated than you want it to be .

I used the high heat stuff to mix up a quart of milk for my sausage gravy last Sunday .
One can't replace the other is someone's opinion .

 

[JckDanls 07]

the guy was using great value powdered milk from Walmart

That's what I used (previously)... And then only half a cup per 5 lbs... Each envelope equals 1 cup... So 10 lb batches got 1 envelope...

I have pretty much quit using any NFDM... But I pretty much only make snack sticks though and don't have any problems...

 

[hog warden]

Here is a link to the guys that make/sell the stuff. They list uses for Low Heat, Medium Heat and High Heat. They say the latter is used for baked goods and meats.

Again, if this is true, then all references in books, recipies, etc. ought to say so. Don't just say NFDM, say high heat non-fat dry milk.

Non-fat Dry Milk & Skim Milk Powder | ThinkUSAdairy by the U.S. Dairy Export Council

 

[indaswamp]

IMO, phosphates trump NFDM powder....and it is not even close. I use STPP - sodium tripoly Phosphste simply because I can get it locally at a butcher supply house fairly cheaply, but there are many that work well....

 

[PapaRed]

I found the asterisk concerning the use table to be interesting. (* Higher temperatures and/or extended holding times contribute directly to whey protein denaturation. This index is used as a measure of the cumulative heat effects during processing of nonfat dry/skimmed milk powder.)

I wonder what effect whey protein denaturation has in my home made sausage.

 

[zwiller]

Exactly . Never was an issue or conversation until lately .
Doesn't need to be anymore complicated than you want it to be .

+1. Learning and understanding is great but recent posts are right on the limit of it, especially for guys drinking beer and making a few pounds of sausage. I doubt many professionals know the answers to this stuff. I used to go hunting for it but no longer do. I trust members here who have experience. All this being said, I went down this rabbit hole and what I gleaned from several hours of research here/other forums/sites is that most guys did not notice any difference between the 2 despite being told one is better than the other.

IMO, phosphates trump NFDM powder....and it is not even close.

Nice to see confirmation. Reminds me I need more.